[MClutterbuck]

Tom,

Of course anything can happen, Emiliano Grillo is still very young, but has the potential to be very, very good. I believe he might end up winning more on the PGA Tour than the rest in that list.

He is 23, on his third year on the European Tour, has several top 10s, a couple of second places and has reached a major tour at a much younger age than the typical Latin American.

M

[Randy Thompson]

The leader after three rounds is ranked around 490th am in the world....and he will play in Masters

That should read, and he might play in the Masters. Everything Marcos has written is exactly my perception of the Southern cone market.
Mike, a lot of what you have stated maybe true for the central america market but it just not fair to generalize and Assume that South America is the same as central america. I also doubt who ever wins this event will finish dead last in the Masters. I have been seeing some postive movements and actions coming from some of the Federations in South America and a shift being focused on growing the game. Some are even starting to get that growing the game comes from the bottom up. Argentina is a good example to follow because it is the only Country where the middle class has access to the sport.

[jeffwarne]

Mike,
I'm well aware of your extensive experience, but we are talking about more than an an entire continent here.
No doubt there could be some corruption involved, but I would think this could be a positive step to improving the process and organizations promoting the game in South America and Central America.
I'm pretty sure Angel Cabrerra could win a Club Champonship, and the very recently added Asian Amateur Championships have provided interesting/capable winners who have consistently played well in the Masters and at least one has gone onto the PGA tour.

The Masters has always had a history of amateurs, many of whom have no chance to win, and years ago as many as 10-15 in an event.
I for one would much rather watch the LAAC Champion or US Mid Am champion than the PGA professional who got in by being 50th on the money list without winning anything.
frankly I'd like to see them add the Senior Open Champion as well.
I've always looked at it as an exhibition for 10-15 % of the field(I love watching the older former champions) and a competition for the rest.

You know how I feel about all the misguided manufacturer driven "growing the game" crap
 (in fact I wrote a letter to the organizers of Drive, Chip, Putt effectively accusing them of using their "random selection" for first round competitor selection as a very misguided/misleading/unfair way to  ensure more minority representation--"random selection" is exactly the opposite of what an event should represent if they're trying to create real, skill based opportunities--something minorities know all too well)
They did away with that practice shortly after.

but I have a hard time faulting ANGC for supporting and creating golf opportunities in Latin America, or anywhere else.

[Mike_Young]

M Clutterbuck, Tom, Randy, Jeff,

I have the greatest respect for guys like  Mario Gonzales, Angel Cabrerra, Ricardo Rossi , Villegas, Vegas etc.  And yes, Randy, perhaps I am much more familiar with Central America and how it plays.  Jeff, I'm with you on watching the amateurs at the Masters.  I am not talking about the Brazilian Open, The Argentine Open or other established events in Latin America.  I'm not saying there is that much corruption or making blanket statements.  I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with the various groups supporting such a tournament.  I'm saying why the Masters??  Does the Brazilian Open champion receive an invite or the Argentine Open?  
In the US you can be from any country and if you live and play at a US club who is a member of the USGA and you have a USGA handicap then you can play in any of their championships.   Do other countries allow the same?  
There will be a day when the LAAC is a very competitive tourney just like the Asian-Pacific and other large continental tourneys but right now it just doesn't seem fair to guys on the World Amateur Ranking list that fall between say 20th and 450th.  
Affirmative action has never work in competitive athletics.  JMO

[jeffwarne]

M Clutterbuck, Tom, Randy, Jeff,

I have the greatest respect for guys like  Mario Gonzales, Angel Cabrerra, Ricardo Rossi , Villegas, Vegas etc.  And yes, Randy, perhaps I am much more familiar with Central America and how it plays.  Jeff, I'm with you on watching the amateurs at the Masters.  I am not talking about the Brazilian Open, The Argentine Open or other established events in Latin America.  I'm not saying there is that much corruption or making blanket statements.  I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with the various groups supporting such a tournament.  I'm saying why the Masters??  Does the Brazilian Open champion receive an invite or the Argentine Open?  
In the US you can be from any country and if you live and play at a US club who is a member of the USGA and you have a USGA handicap then you can play in any of their championships.   Do other countries allow the same?  
There will be a day when the LAAC is a very competitive tourney just like the Asian-Pacific and other large continental tourneys but right now it just doesn't seem fair to guys on the World Amateur Ranking list that fall between say 20th and 450th.  
Affirmative action has never work in competitive athletics.  JMO

aah but Mike,
I'm more interested in seeing the LAAC Champion then I am the 21st ranked amateur in the world, the same as I'm more interested in the Mid am champ or Ben Censhaw than the 51st ranked PGA money list guy.
The Masters has NEVER had the strongest field, it's an invitational.
They're simply adding a spot in the smallish field (unlike other majors where that would come at the expense of another) so in this case "affirmative action" isn't coming at the expense of someone else, as it could in other events and walks of life,

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Mike,
I'm well aware of your extensive experience, but we are talking about more than an an entire continent here.
No doubt there could be some corruption involved, but I would think this could be a positive step to improving the process and organizations promoting the game in South America and Central America.
I'm pretty sure Angel Cabrerra could win a Club Champonship, and the very recently added Asian Amateur Championships have provided interesting/capable winners who have consistently played well in the Masters and at least one has gone onto the PGA tour.

The Masters has always had a history of amateurs, many of whom have no chance to win, and years ago as many as 10-15 in an event.
I for one would much rather watch the LAAC Champion or US Mid Am champion than the PGA professional who got in by being 50th on the money list without winning anything.
frankly I'd like to see them add the Senior Open Champion as well.
I've always looked at it as an exhibition for 10-15 % of the field(I love watching the older former champions) and a competition for the rest.

You know how I feel about all the misguided manufacturer driven "growing the game" crap
 (in fact I wrote a letter to the organizers of Drive, Chip, Putt effectively accusing them of using their "random selection" for first round competitor selection as a very misguided/misleading/unfair way to  ensure more minority representation--"random selection" is exactly the opposite of what an event should represent if they're trying to create real, skill based opportunities--something minorities know all too well)
They did away with that practice shortly after.

but I have a hard time faulting ANGC for supporting and creating golf opportunities in Latin America, or anywhere else.

I agree with this 100%...ANGC clearly feel that growing the, game is more important than including some high ranked player in the world whom has perhaps only ever won one event.

[MClutterbuck]

Some affirmative action or regional selection occurs in every world wide sports competition. Arguably the U.S. might have not played a football World Cup without "unfair" regional quotas. based on merit and ranking South America should receive many more invites and some regions less. But world representation makes it more interesting and allows for development world wide.

Having said this, you have clarified your initial statement and are arguing more reasonably debated subjects than your initial thoughts. Sufficient for me.

[Randy Thompson]

And the winner is;
Matias Domínguez from: CHILE!
Oh, from the same Country that is gonna win the upcoming, America´s Cup!!

[MClutterbuck]

A well deserved win for Matias Dominguez. Best of luck for the Masters and Amateur Championships. Alejandro Tosti the runner up will have other chances.

More interesting to this Discussion Group, after launching the Championship in Argentina, deservedly I believe due to history and commitment to the game of golf, as well as a well run Argentina Golf Association, the Championship moves on to Teeth of the Dog. I have never been there but I hear good things about the course.

The opening venue, Pilar Golf Club in my opinion is not a top 10 course in Argentina. Its modern, spacious club house and plently of additional space won it the nomination. What courses would be great for this event in the future?

I can see several courses in Cabo, Punta Espada in the Dominican, the Rio Olympic course being strong candidates. Any other you would like to see and have good sized facilities for such an event?


M

[David Ober]

M Clutterbuck, Tom, Randy, Jeff,

I have the greatest respect for guys like  Mario Gonzales, Angel Cabrerra, Ricardo Rossi , Villegas, Vegas etc.  And yes, Randy, perhaps I am much more familiar with Central America and how it plays.  Jeff, I'm with you on watching the amateurs at the Masters.  I am not talking about the Brazilian Open, The Argentine Open or other established events in Latin America.  I'm not saying there is that much corruption or making blanket statements.  I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with the various groups supporting such a tournament.  I'm saying why the Masters??  Does the Brazilian Open champion receive an invite or the Argentine Open?  
In the US you can be from any country and if you live and play at a US club who is a member of the USGA and you have a USGA handicap then you can play in any of their championships.   Do other countries allow the same?  
There will be a day when the LAAC is a very competitive tourney just like the Asian-Pacific and other large continental tourneys but right now it just doesn't seem fair to guys on the World Amateur Ranking list that fall between say 20th and 450th.  
Affirmative action has never work in competitive athletics.  JMO

aah but Mike,
I'm more interested in seeing the LAAC Champion then I am the 21st ranked amateur in the world, the same as I'm more interested in the Mid am champ or Ben Censhaw than the 51st ranked PGA money list guy.
The Masters has NEVER had the strongest field, it's an invitational.
They're simply adding a spot in the smallish field (unlike other majors where that would come at the expense of another) so in this case "affirmative action" isn't coming at the expense of someone else, as it could in other events and walks of life,

100% agree with you, Jeff.

[Mike_Young]

M Clutterbuck, Tom, Randy, Jeff,

I have the greatest respect for guys like  Mario Gonzales, Angel Cabrerra, Ricardo Rossi , Villegas, Vegas etc.  And yes, Randy, perhaps I am much more familiar with Central America and how it plays.  Jeff, I'm with you on watching the amateurs at the Masters.  I am not talking about the Brazilian Open, The Argentine Open or other established events in Latin America.  I'm not saying there is that much corruption or making blanket statements.  I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with the various groups supporting such a tournament.  I'm saying why the Masters??  Does the Brazilian Open champion receive an invite or the Argentine Open?  
In the US you can be from any country and if you live and play at a US club who is a member of the USGA and you have a USGA handicap then you can play in any of their championships.   Do other countries allow the same?  
There will be a day when the LAAC is a very competitive tourney just like the Asian-Pacific and other large continental tourneys but right now it just doesn't seem fair to guys on the World Amateur Ranking list that fall between say 20th and 450th.  
Affirmative action has never work in competitive athletics.  JMO

aah but Mike,
I'm more interested in seeing the LAAC Champion then I am the 21st ranked amateur in the world, the same as I'm more interested in the Mid am champ or Ben Censhaw than the 51st ranked PGA money list guy.
The Masters has NEVER had the strongest field, it's an invitational.
They're simply adding a spot in the smallish field (unlike other majors where that would come at the expense of another) so in this case "affirmative action" isn't coming at the expense of someone else, as it could in other events and walks of life,

Jeff,
No problem we just disagree.  It's sort of like the entire First Tee deal for me....I don't see it helping grow the game one bit...hell they even had to force ESPN to broadcast it by telling them to do it if they wanted the Masters during Masters Week...might see you later this week...

[Mark Chaplin]

Mike your assumption around USGA events doesn't appear to add up. Take 2014 the US Amateur had 42 non-US participants. The Amateur Championship (the R&A one) had 186 overseas players tee up on day one, surprisingly only 12 US players entered. The British version goes on world rankings where as the US version relies mainly on qualifiers thus making entry prohibitively expensive for overseas players not in the world top 50.

[Randy Thompson]

A well deserved win for Matias Dominguez. Best of luck for the Masters and Amateur Championships. Alejandro Tosti the runner up will have other chances.

More interesting to this Discussion Group, after launching the Championship in Argentina, deservedly I believe due to history and commitment to the game of golf, as well as a well run Argentina Golf Association, the Championship moves on to Teeth of the Dog. I have never been there but I hear good things about the course.

The opening venue, Pilar Golf Club in my opinion is not a top 10 course in Argentina. Its modern, spacious club house and plently of additional space won it the nomination. What courses would be great for this event in the future?

I can see several courses in Cabo, Punta Espada in the Dominican, the Rio Olympic course being strong candidates. Any other you would like to see and have good sized facilities for such an event?


M

Marcos,
There are a lot of options for future events. Not sure if Casa de Campo for the next event is the best option. I understand the importance of rotation but I worry about the cost when we start considering áreas like Los Cabos y Casa de Campo. I wonder how many of this year participants would have been able to play if it had been in Los Cabos or Casa de Campo. for example.

[MClutterbuck]

Randy, as I understand it, The Masters picked up the full cost of the stay for all players and officials. I know for a fact they payed for all travel expenses for all 109 participants. I think it is important that the tournament is played on great venues, thus creating at least some interest in watching the event on TV.

My only criticism of the initial event is the venue chosen. There were probably 10 better options in and out of Buenos Aires.

[Mike_Young]

Masters also required ESPN to broadcast if they wanted the Masters on Thurs and Fri...

[Randy Thompson]

Randy, as I understand it, The Masters picked up the full cost of the stay for all players and officials. I know for a fact they payed for all travel expenses for all 109 participants. I think it is important that the tournament is played on great venues, thus creating at least some interest in watching the event on TV.

My only criticism of the initial event is the venue chosen. There were probably 10 better options in and out of Buenos Aires.

Impressive, how was the selection made who gets invited to play?
Agreed there were a lot better places to have such an event. Hope they didn´t use the nine with the silly par 6. But, those things happen when you have a matress King enter into the golf design business!

[MClutterbuck]

Randy, as I understand it, The Masters picked up the full cost of the stay for all players and officials. I know for a fact they payed for all travel expenses for all 109 participants. I think it is important that the tournament is played on great venues, thus creating at least some interest in watching the event on TV.

My only criticism of the initial event is the venue chosen. There were probably 10 better options in and out of Buenos Aires.

Impressive, how was the selection made who gets invited to play?
Agreed there were a lot better places to have such an event. Hope they didn´t use the nine with the silly par 6. But, those things happen when you have a matress King enter into the golf design business!

Randy, a minimum of 2 players per country qualilfied. Depending on ranking points and depth, countries were awarded more slots and the host country a few extra. Within each federation, some places were awarded according to world ranking points and others through qualifiers.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()