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Steve_Lovett

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Dogs on the golf course
« on: January 10, 2015, 05:18:07 PM »
What mainstream public golf courses or private clubs in the United States allow dogs to accompany golfers?

How about in England/Scotland/Ireland/Europe?

What are the rules associated with dogs on golf courses where they are allowed? Are there examples of what works - and what doesn't?

Also - from GCA many years ago (early 2000's) I recall a great image of a man walking, wearing plus fours, with a retreiver tethered to his golf bag. Does anyone know where that photo originated - or where it may be today?

Thanks,
Steve

Joey Chase

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Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2015, 06:01:47 PM »
One of my favorite things about Royal West Norfolk is that they have, or at least had, a water bowl on each tee box for dogs.  That was the epitome of understated golf.  Such a shame that there aren't more places like this. 

On a softer course, I can understand a green keeper not wanting dogs running around.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2015, 06:08:01 PM »
I was walking off the 12th tee at Rye when I spotted a fellow with two black labs. He was playing his shot up over the hill on 16.  The dogs sat motionless, side by side, staring at the ball. When the shot was struck they swiveled their heads as one, following the flight of the ball.  It was a beautiful sight.  

Marty Bonnar

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Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 06:11:25 PM »
Pretty sure we've covered this before, but always nice to post a pic of dogs on golf courses. Here one chap with two of his best friends on the Eden.



Woof!
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Jon Cavalier

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Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 06:16:15 PM »
Great thread. I love golfing with my pup.



Even though she sometimes insists on cartballing, as she did on this day, she's still young enough to learn and cute enough to forgive.

Of the Philly-area courses, I know Stonewall allows dogs on their Udder course (a fact which has made me quite interested in joining, if only it wasn't 50 minutes from my house and office).

Fieldstone, in Wilmington, DE, used to allow dogs until a certain high-ranking politician had an incident.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 06:18:55 PM by Jon Cavalier »
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David_Tepper

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Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 08:14:40 PM »
"Joey, the members run the club, not the greenkeeper. We should never have a scenario where the tail wags the dog. By all means the greenkeeper should suggest best practice, but it is for the member's to decide whether it is in their overall interests to act on it. That ranges from the pleasure derived from having dogs on the course to whether or not to open a course when there is frost on the course on a cold morning." 

Brian S. -

That reminds me of the old saying that anyone who represents themselves in a court of law has a fool for a client. A golf club that does not respect the wishes of their greenkeeper regarding the best practices for the course has fools for members! ;)

DT

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 10:24:05 PM »
It seems like all of the munis here in Austin allow dogs on the course. Definitely Lions, definitely Kizer/Clay. I think I've seen them at other courses too. Of course, dogs are allowed pretty much anywhere here. I've never taken my two dogs out on the course though. They'd be trying to chase every ball I hit. Plus they're not nearly as young as they think they are.

john_stiles

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Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2015, 10:42:32 PM »
Though infrequent, you will see dogs at Lookout Mountain in Georgia.

Just a few will bring their dogs, a la courses in England/Scotland.

And you will see neighborhood dogs who will follow you.

The course is on top of the mountain and is surrounded by the neighborhood.



The membership does seem to have that English/Scottish sensibility.




Carl Johnson

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Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2015, 10:47:17 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 10:50:25 PM by Carl Johnson »

Jim Tang

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Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2015, 11:27:09 PM »
In 2012 I was walking off the course at Royal Dornoch and bumped into a very nice lady with her Scottie tied to her pull cart.  She was probably 70 years old and heading out for a twilight round on the Struie course.  We had a very nice chat and she explained whenever she played she took her dog with her.  It was wonderful to see.

Black Sheep, outside Chicago, has several dogs that run around the property.  They belong to the head pro, the clubhouse manager and the golf course superintendent.  A glass jar filled with dog treats can be found inside the clubhouse and members and guests are known to give them to the dogs, which tend to hang around the clubhouse, 1st and 10th tees, putting green and maintenance shed.  Sometimes these dogs ride in golf carts with their owners as they zip about the property tending to the business of the day.

I no longer loop at Black Sheep, but when I did, sometimes a dog or two would tag along with a group for nine holes.

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 11:58:46 PM »
On that note, a club that honors its working dogs automatically gets a bump in my personal rankings. Call it "ambiance."

Lost Dunes


Whippoorwill


I'm a big fan of this practice.
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Sam Morrow

Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2015, 12:00:52 AM »
I've noticed that many private clubs have no problems with dogs coming with their owners. When I was a kid one of my dogs would often walk my home club with me.

Ross Harmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2015, 12:22:26 AM »
I bring my Cairn Terrier with me to Ballyneal once or twice a season. He's on the leash around the clubhouse, but the runs free on the course. Given the nature of Ballyneal, it works out perfect. There's several other members who often also have their dogs too.

Of course there's the most famous GCA dog out there, Pete and Alice Dye's "Sixty"! Most often any mainstream article or photo published includes their beloved white German Shepard.

Rees Milikin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2015, 08:29:15 AM »
Though infrequent, you will see dogs at Lookout Mountain in Georgia.

Just a few will bring their dogs, a la courses in England/Scotland.

And you will see neighborhood dogs who will follow you.

The course is on top of the mountain and is surrounded by the neighborhood.



The membership does seem to have that English/Scottish sensibility.





I have seen Doug Stein's dog join him on rounds, which is pretty cool.  There is also a nice golden retriever that will sometimes join you along holes 5-8.

Keith OHalloran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2015, 08:47:48 AM »
Meadowbrook on LI allows dogs, I always thought that was great. We also had a good time with the Dismal Dog this summer!

C. Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2015, 09:03:04 AM »
Steve,

Many of the 9 hole courses on the Oregon coast allow you to bring your dog.  The most famous for allowing dogs is Agate Beach golf course.  Last time I was there I saw 15 or more dogs.  All seemed well behaved and most important there owners did a very good job picking up after them.  I have played another 5-10 courses on the coast with my dog, but Agate Beach was always a favorite!
chris

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2015, 11:01:35 AM »
This is a topic that is important to me as golf and dogs rank very highly on my priority list.
However, because of that, I choose to RARELY combine them. Let me explain.

I can only speak about the US, but - from being on our club's grounds and greens committe in the past - I know there are just too many chemicals on the grass that present a very clear health hazard to my beloved yellow lab. In short, the grass ain't that green purely due to Mother Nature.

I would LOVE to be able to walk and play with my dog but I only venture on the course with her before April 1 and after November 15 when all the growth regulators, fertilizers, grub spray, insecticides, etc, are no longer used.

True story: my wife and I visted my best friend's father 5years ago when I was back in my home town. He taught me the game when I was a kid. They live just off the 3rd green at a course in Princeton, NJ. I was petting their 4 year old golden retriever and felt a huge bump on its throat. The dog had a tumor and was given 6 months to live. The family went on to tell us that their last two dogs met a similar fate. We were shocked and could not believe that they still took their dog out on the course every day.

US golf courses are not places for dogs and small children!!

Rich Goodale

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Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2015, 11:50:30 AM »
Glad to see that the OT guillotine is on the fritz.  Given that, can we now start talking about golf and football again?
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

CStrange

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2015, 01:59:54 PM »
This is a topic that is important to me as golf and dogs rank very highly on my priority list.
However, because of that, I choose to RARELY combine them. Let me explain.

This is an important topic to me as well.  I'm a golf course superintendent and a pet fanatic.  I also have 2 little girls who have been visiting the golf course since birth.  

I can only speak about the US, but - from being on our club's grounds and greens committe in the past - I know there are just too many chemicals on the grass that present a very clear health hazard to my beloved yellow lab. In short, the grass ain't that green purely due to Mother Nature.

I can only speak to the US as well.  I am glad you have taken the time to serve on your club's greens committee, I am sure you are committed to your club and the advancement of golf.  But making a blanket statement that there are too many chemicals on a golf course that present a health hazard to pets and the public is ignorant at best.  Perhaps you can dig through the minutes of your meetings and let me know which chemicals you are talking about so I can stop applying them, they sound awful.  Perhaps you should suggest that parks and lawns are also unsafe for children and pets.  It is much more likely that an untrained, unlicensed homeowner would be more likely to mis-use pesticides or fertilizers on their home lawn than a golf course.  In short the grass is green because of the dedication of a group of people that have your best interests and the best interest of the public and environment as a major focus.  

I would LOVE to be able to walk and play with my dog but I only venture on the course with her before April 1 and after November 15 when all the growth regulators, fertilizers, grub spray, insecticides, etc, are no longer used.

That seems like a reasonable strategy.  You must live in a cooler climate.  I hope they don't use salt on the roads where you live.  If so please stay out of the streets.  After all most of the cancer causing fertilizers that are applied to a golf course are simple salts.

True story: my wife and I visted my best friend's father 5years ago when I was back in my home town. He taught me the game when I was a kid. They live just off the 3rd green at a course in Princeton, NJ. I was petting their 4 year old golden retriever and felt a huge bump on its throat. The dog had a tumor and was given 6 months to live. The family went on to tell us that their last two dogs met a similar fate. We were shocked and could not believe that they still took their dog out on the course every day.  

I'm sorry to hear about your friends Golden Retriever.  I am on #'s 3 and 4 for goldens.  While I agree that 4 yrs old is very young to lose a dog, it happens all the time.  A fact that you can verify is that Goldens are more suceptible to cancer than many other breeds of dog, and it is often the cause of their demise.  My last 2 Goldens died of cancer both at 10 years of age and lived a very happy life exploring the golf course on a regular basis.  I must be using less of the cancer causing chemicals.  If your friend keeps losing dogs to cancer at 4 yrs old maybe he should have his house checked for lead paint, or radon, or something that actually does cause cancer.

US golf courses are not places for dogs and small children!!

Or ignorant self proclaimed chemical and public health experts.  

On a different note.  Playing golf with my dogs is nerve wracking.  I'm much more worried about them getting hit with a bladed shot or walking around into my backswing.

Cheers,

Chris Strange
Superintendent-Minot Country Club


Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2015, 02:56:01 PM »
This is a topic that is important to me as golf and dogs rank very highly on my priority list.
However, because of that, I choose to RARELY combine them. Let me explain.

I can only speak about the US, but - from being on our club's grounds and greens committe in the past - I know there are just too many chemicals on the grass that present a very clear health hazard to my beloved yellow lab. In short, the grass ain't that green purely due to Mother Nature.

I would LOVE to be able to walk and play with my dog but I only venture on the course with her before April 1 and after November 15 when all the growth regulators, fertilizers, grub spray, insecticides, etc, are no longer used.

True story: my wife and I visted my best friend's father 5years ago when I was back in my home town. He taught me the game when I was a kid. They live just off the 3rd green at a course in Princeton, NJ. I was petting their 4 year old golden retriever and felt a huge bump on its throat. The dog had a tumor and was given 6 months to live. The family went on to tell us that their last two dogs met a similar fate. We were shocked and could not believe that they still took their dog out on the course every day.

US golf courses are not places for dogs and small children!!


Ian,

Your post raises a number of alarming questions. The first that comes to mind is: "What the hell are you talking about?"

I too, would like to know which chemicals in use on U.S golf courses have been shown to cause cancer in dogs and small children. (Apparently, at 21 years of age, we humans arrive at some sort of immunity). Can you name one, single, documented case of a diagnosed cancer in either animals or people that is related to golf course chemicals in the past fifty years? This should be easy as you claim they "present a very clear health hazard". If that's the case, then greenkeepers should be dropping like flies.

In fact, could you name any study anywhere showing that proper use of approved pesticides on golf courses poses any health risk to anyone at all? One golden retriever  in New Jersey with a cancerous tumor doesn't prove anything. There was an eight year old boy in my kids' school who died from leukemia. He never set foot on a golf course. Perhaps we can conclude that classrooms are carcinogenic. 

I have two kids who have lived on a golf course all their lives and exposure to pesticides doesn't concern me in the least, but then I
know something about the subject.

"US golf courses are not places for dogs and small children!!"

This is the most egregiously ignorant statement I have ever read in all my years on this forum.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2015, 03:26:30 PM »
@ Chris. Don't know where the venom comes from, but - hey - maybe that's just how you choose to express yourself.

My first tipoff was when I saw a guy at a  course get in a sealed cabin of a vehicle designed to spray pesticides. He had a hazmat suit on with his nose and mouth covered. But I do not wish to debate you. I cede to your industry acumen and sharp elbows. Good luck with that long-term.

I'm sure all of your courses use nothing but pure water. You are free to do what you want with your dog. As am I. Let's leave it at that please.

@ Steve:

http://www.usga.org/course_care/articles/environment/water/Assessing-Chemical-Hazards-on-Golf-Courses/

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/golf/

http://www.pesticide.org/get-the-facts/ncap-publications-and-reports/general-reports-and-publications/journal-of-pesticide-reform/journal-of-pesticide-reform-articles/golfcourses.pdf

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2008-05/environment_feldman

http://grounds-mag.com/golf_courses/grounds_maintenance_sick_golf/

http://m.wtae.com/news/pittsburgh-sportscaster-suing-chemical-companies-over-dads-death/25999560

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/realestate/golf-pros-and-cons-of-proximity.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


Humans may indeed be safe on golf courses. But many dogs are different. Their paws are extremely sensitive. They have huge allergies that can create a host of other health issues.

I hope just the small amount of reference data above shows why I CHOOSE to not take my dog out with me. Please feel free to do as you please and I am sorry if I made statements that you feel are not accurate.

Best,
Ian


noonan

Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2015, 03:33:48 PM »
I have seen a sign or 2 at the start of play that says to inquire at the superintendents office about the pesticides used on the course :)

Donovan Childers

Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2015, 03:39:24 PM »
I don't think that I would have a problem with well trained dogs on a golf course. Something like the Border Collies In the picture above, or hunting labs that no how to sit and follow commands. But I agree with one of the posters that said they would be more worried about hitting one of the dogs.

I go to many courses and see dogs running around with the Super all the time.

Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2015, 03:41:54 PM »
Ian,

You'll be happy to know that my Chesapeake Bay Retriever spent every day of the first eight years of her life on the golf course with me, and at the age of twelve she is still alive and well.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Ryan Coles

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Re: Dogs on the golf course
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2015, 04:05:22 PM »
A dissenting voice.

Dogs are for the park, preferably on a lead. I don't find your dog charming, in fact if I wanted to be surrounded by dogs and associated paraphernalia, I'd go to crufts.

Dogs have no place on the course and are about as appropriate as taking a Labrador out whilst opening the batting.