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Ran Morrissett

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GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« on: January 09, 2015, 09:37:34 AM »
Custom dictates analysis and resolution at the start of each year and GolfClubAtlas embraces such moments. What went well? What can we work on? A critical reflection of the factors and principles that have delivered success is welcome and beneficial.
 
The website continues to grow at a blistering pace, more firmly establishing itself as the preeminent resource for golf course architecture and as a non-commercial beacon on the cluttered golf web. Chris Buie continues the thankless but yeoman-like work on all the behind-the-scenes stuff. Thanks to Jerry Kluger’s efforts, there are a couple hundred more GolfClubAtlas.com logos on shirts roaming the planet than there were a year ago. THANK YOU to all those monetary contributors that have enabled this site to remain non-commercial. Many of you have done so for over a decade so that we can all enjoy the site’s elegant, ad free appearance. 

Our year-over-year growth is remarkable because ours is a niche, if not esoteric, subject. A fortuitous combination of personalities and photojournalism has conspired to create a lively appreciation for our obsession. A sense of community has been forged through the exchange of ideas/experiences and the personal interactions at various worldwide gatherings under this banner.
 
Conventional wisdom says that golf has lost its way. Ben, Joe and I think differently – we believe that its contraction is healthy because golf is returning to its roots. Core golf courses are back, housing is out, walking is in, artisanal forged blades and leather walking bags rock, it’s all good! For a period, golf was the ‘cool’  ‘in thing’ and that’s always ephemeral. Money drove our beloved sport and tried to make it into a series of things it can’t be. Compounding the problem is the change of lifestyle. Club life is no longer at golf’s center and people are on the move.
 
GolfClubAtlas.com won’t ignore such big picture lessons and we are rededicating ourselves to our stated mission: the frank commentary of golf course architecture. In 2015, we will expand those things that augment that mission and diminish and expel those that detract from it. While there was some pouting, most people understood the intent of my December post based on the flurry of calls, emails and donations. General Patton once barked ‘Better to fight for something than live for nothing.’ Several people jumped in to help. Steve Lapper and Joel Stewart identified more than 800 irrelevant threads for swift removal. These could be categorized as having the ‘intellectual vigor of a flounder,’ as one of them sardonically noted. Posters afflicted with ‘keyboard courage’ who spew meanness will see their accounts removed. As few as several hundred frivolous threads without historical merit or with broken photo links remain. Please pitch in to identify and eliminate them. We archive quality material, not gibberish on blood diamonds or Woody Allen.
 
Speaking of quality, the In My Opinion section is still dazzling and contains some sparkling research. Yet, last year there was a dearth of new entries. Why is that? We would appreciate feedback. It was similar for Best of Golf, which will remain a repository for exemplars of all aspects of the game.
 
GolfClubAtlas is a community of individuals, diverse for sure but kindred in their affection for the game and its playing fields. This amalgamation enthuses the Discussion Group, the bedrock of our enterprise. However, sometimes we suffer from the unbridled enthusiasm of a small (less than 10) but prolific set of posters who dominate and clutter the interaction. Ours is a time honored but not time sensitive topic. It would be far better if many of us paused (even overnight) and thought about what we are about to post than to spew forth frivolous, trite or worst of all, vehement commentary. Cicero once sniffed, ’If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter.’ People who post and post … and post fail us because they inhibit and impede more meaningful dialogue. A discerning review of the threads current and past reveals by and large an excellence in the extreme.  We should all be mighty proud, especially with so much silliness having been deleted since my December post.
 
Our site is not a message board; no one should feel compelled to tell us about their state of play; no one should comment on every thread. In fact it is nearly unimaginable that you should post every day.  There should be a constraint to post so that there is more certainty that what is said advances the discussion and understanding of golf course architecture. We can have what our esteemed British friends might call an argy-bargy but it must be substantive and dignified.  GolfClubAtlas provides a platform to speak to the world; it is a privilege, not a right and comes with obligation. The theologian and poet Fenelon summed it up well, 'The more you say, the less people remember. The fewer the words, the greater the profit.'
 
What does 2015 hold? Former posters will be returning to the fray during the first quarter as they see changes in both the tenor and focus of the Discussion Group. Our subject matter is vast and there is much to scrutinize, categorize and classify. We want an organized repository to ease reference. Rather than leave the current ~49,000 threads higgledy-piggledy, we are remodeling the archives. Exactly how this will be accomplished is still being determined. Big picture, pre-2014 threads might be segregated into as many as twenty-five baskets, many of which will be unique to GolfClubAtlas.com. Examples would include one containing Sean Arble’s scintillating English countryside tours, Tom Doak’s musings, a basket for missed posters like George Bahto  :'(, Greenkeeping, ones for the Philadelphia and Californian design schools, and past GolfClubAtlas.com gatherings. Bottom line: “To File is Human, To Retrieve is Divine”. Once we get a better handle on the technical issues, I will start a thread seeking input on what ‘baskets’ or ‘library’ would be most beneficial. Stay tuned for that in early February. One side benefit will be the ease in identifying topics that have been overlooked, enabling us to approach experts to advance discussion in those areas. For example, Archie Struthers shrewdly recognized “drainage” as one such subject.
 
GolfClubAtlas is growing but we intend to ensure that its expansion is consequential. We are attempting to build something special on the Internet. It’s not easy - and rarely done - but we firmly believe that we are creating superior information that is be freely accessed around the globe and serves the greater good of golf. GolfClubAtlas is intended to be a lasting legacy and we solicit your support and your advocacy of our mission. David Moriarty and I had a series of engaging telephone conversations as this past summer’s events played out. We concluded/acknowledged that GolfClubAtlas.com as a ‘group’ is superior to any ‘individual.’ A variety of skills are represented by the ~1,650 people that can post. By tapping the strengths of each, we end up with something richly textured, significant and far-reaching.
 
We charge out of the gate in 2015 with articles about Mike Hurdzan, Sunningdale Old and the President’s Putter. A friend suggested that GolfClubAtlas.com is ‘the most honorably intended website on the internet’; such a complement is music to our ears. We look forward to validating that praise and welcoming your participation in what promises to be another grand year.
 
Best,

Ben, Joe & Ran

Michael Moore

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2015, 10:08:38 AM »
Can you tell us a bit more about Joe Andriole? I seem to have completely missed his addition to the masthead.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Paul Gray

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2015, 01:48:59 PM »
A poetic and hopefully prophetic mission statement. Tremendous stuff.

Thanks, Ran.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Ronald Montesano

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2015, 02:35:24 PM »
My prose shall not ever be called scintillating by any living soul, nor will I ever contribute anything profound along the lines of Moriarty, Kennedy, Young, and their endowed colleagues. I don't write like Pallotta nor Lynch.

I'm hoping that there is not a subtle (or overt) tendency toward extreme policing of the site. I think it's proper to send a PM to someone whose post you didn't appreciate, rather than calling the person out in public. And believe you me, I'm oftentimes the guy in need of the reprimand.

After a good ten years on GCA, I don't understand why I hang around, why I post so often, why I care. Yet I will and I will and I do, into the future

This cartoon from Larson says it better than I ever might.


Copyright: The Far Side http://www.thefarside.com/
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 03:33:27 PM »
Michael, Joe is one of three owners of the much beloved though money losing GolfClubAtlas.com, longtime friend, surprisingly good player for being an indifferent putter, and superb editor of this site. He is also an oenophile, if not worse.
 
Within minutes of making my post, a past poster responded by e-mail, ‘I no longer look at the site but … blah blah blah.’ It cracks me up. People say ‘I stopped looking at GolfClubAtlas.com years ago’ and then rattle off four current threads that irk them. Priceless.
 
Posters make up only ~30% of the site’s daily page views. The majority of people who tune in can’t post or have no interest in doing so. Occasionally, they send emails and some are cracking good.  One included a great suggestion: Ask each person to name his best post of the year. I presumed that it meant that posters should reflect on their writing and if nothing stands out, you might want to think more before typing. Someone else suggested asking each potential new poster ‘what thread do you intend to start?’ I like that conceptually but it is not practical because some people who want to join have information to add to a current thread. Such individuals are most welcome; we each have a role to play.

Another person suggested sticking the ‘garbage’ threads to the top, cueing them up for deletion in 24 hours, all while humiliating the author. An interesting idea but yikes (!) that’s not how we do things here.

Another email suggested a thread on favorite GCA moments of the year as part of fostering a sense of ‘community.’ 2014 was remarkable for the assorted rascals and scamps that stormed GCA world headquarters during the back-to-back U.S. Opens at Pinehurst. My liver recoiled seeing the ever sockless though relentlessly dapper Tom Paul! Seeking sanity, I pushed the eject button and headed for healthy southern California, only to be snake-bitten again, surrounded by trouble.
 


My favorite email of the year came from the United Kingdom and posed the age-old, hard hitting question, ‘What is it with Americans and blue jeans?’  ;D
 
I relate these anecdotes to illustrate the concerns of readers and that opportunities exist for improvement. Keep the ideas and observations coming.

Best,

Joel_Stewart

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 05:01:19 PM »
Ran:

Well done.  GolfClubAtlas has become so big and now influential that I applaud you for making changes.  The worldwide demand for information on golf architecture needs this web site.
 
The organization of key threads will improve the web site 1000 percent.  My recommendation is to place (at your discretion) your opening course profile statements and important threads under the appropriate courses in the “Courses by Country” section.  Then, people can easily access your review and thought-provoking threads related to such courses.

Furthermore, and I have said it several times, individuals post about the same subject all the time.  Use the SEARCH function. There are dozens of threads about traveling to San Francisco, Augusta, Florida and various other subjects.  Looking at some of the old threads is also wildly entertaining.

I don’t understand why people are not using the “In my Opinion” section?  Perhaps most don’t understand it, are intimidated by it or like me don’t have the obvious writing skills?   Understanding the criteria for submitting such ideas should be clarified.

Regarding the Discussion Group:  Having participated from almost the beginning, I see the following;

1.   The Discussion Group has become a source for quick hit Twitter type comments.  If you have a comment, post a legible comment with facts supporting such comments.  Don’t say, the 16th at Augusta is a bad hole without supporting such comments.

2.   Some of the old timers (including myself) are not traveling quite as much.  With that said, they still post about the same amount without much added?

3.   Some of the newbies seem to be posting quantity and not quality.  If you have something to add, use the SEARCH function and add it to a thread if it exists.

4.   OT subjects.  If it’s OT, why post

5.   Individuals who post more than once a day.   Is it really necessary?  There are people who post thousands of post per year.  I believe you should advocate for giving people (who are not in the golf business) a 30 day time out if they constantly post. 

6.   Bring back the old timers.  The over whelming reason many people stop posting is because it gets too confrontational.    With this new proposed format, I hope people will contact you and come back. 

7.   Use common social media etiquette for posting.  The warnings are everywhere regarding posting comments that may come back to hurt you.  I am 100% guilty of this and suffered disciplinary consequences at my former club.  If you are about to post something confrontational, sleep on it before posting.  Like a Las Vegas casino which is always open, GCA and the internet are always open and your comments will be seen.

Joel_Stewart

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 05:31:40 PM »

Several people jumped in to help. Steve Lapper and Joel Stewart identified more than 800 irrelevant threads for swift removal. These could be categorized as having the ‘intellectual vigor of a flounder,’ as one of them sardonically noted. Posters afflicted with ‘keyboard courage’ who spew meanness will see their accounts removed. As few as several hundred frivolous threads without historical merit or with broken photo links remain. Please pitch in to identify and eliminate them. We archive quality material, not gibberish on blood diamonds or Woody Allen.


I wish I made a list of all the deleted threads that had been posted.  The 2006 review of the movie Blood Diamonds was just the tip of the iceberg as well as John Kavanaughs post last week about Woody Allen.

Here are a few others;

Restaurant questions and critiques.
How to use Google and its search engine
The Boston Red Sox winning the World Series
The World Series
The Super Bowl
Paging various people (around 50)
CNNs most stressful jobs
Dozens of threads on college football
Ivy league sports
NBC broadcasting in HD
Tiger talk (estimated that 100 of these have been deleted).
Athlete's we love to hate
The burger dog at Olympic Club
Is my data safe on GCA?
New member introductions

 

Joel_Stewart

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2015, 06:40:51 PM »
Sorry I don't understand your first question so I'll pass to Ran.

Regarding limiting posters who are not in the business.  *First, Ran or anyone else are not going to start counting daily posts.  Hopefully this is self control.  Secondly, if you're sitting behind a desk in Buffalo do you really have that much to say on a daily basis?  Furthermore, have you really played that many courses and can talk intelligently about it?  Rans point is trying to identify quality over quantity and offer meaningful insight.  There are several other sites including Facebook and Twitter that are more appropriate to discussing non golf architecture subjects.

Lastly, I agree that there are several people who come here just to promote their own self interests.  In all fairness, they stay on topic and only post a few times per year if that much.  Many times that information is news worthy.  An example is Jim Engh who posted several times promoting a new course but was chased out after being attacked for his architecture.  If you have someone specific you would like to discuss, contact Ran.  I have suggested to Ran that the number of people eligible to post be limited to 500.  Ran has the details but statistically less than 20% of the posters contribute well over 80% of the posts?   

* A very important point - This is not Rans, Ben or Joes full time job.  At times this site needs a full time moderator but they have families to feed and are off running their golf courses or leasing widgets in far flung places. Hopefully participants will respect the contribution they have made yet not take advantage of their absence.  It would be nice if they could enjoy the site and participate instead of coming on to be the police.       

Sean_A

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2015, 06:45:22 PM »
I must admit to being slightly puzzled by all this hand wringing about deleting threads when the posters who actually originated same are not granted the rights to do so themselves - why is this?

I agree Sheehy.  Even so, I have no problems with deleting old threads.  

In an effort to trim content, I promised myself this year that if my old photo threads come back to the 1st page I will edit them....most likely making them shorter.  

Ran - if you do decide to create an area for various tours, I suggest you contact the authors and request the tours be edited beforehand.  

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2015, 07:06:37 PM »
There are ca. 17,250 topics on this site that have "0" responses.  Saying bye-bye to them would trim some content.  ;)
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

BCowan

Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 07:37:11 PM »
''Secondly, if you're sitting behind a desk in Buffalo do you really have that much to say on a daily basis?  Furthermore, have you really played that many courses and can talk intelligently about it?  Rans point is trying to identify quality over quantity and offer meaningful insight. ''

So only the well traveled, GD panelists, and ''in the business folks'' have insight?  It is very refreshing to view those photo tours and thoughtful threads brought to us by the buffalo golfer and Sean A.  There needs to be more focus on the Architectural merits of the non top 200 that service 90% of the rest of us.  I understand limiting some/more of the OT threads, but it is nice to have a human element to the site.  I don't even like football, but i think that thread was 10 years old or something.  Anyway this isn't my site, so we will just adjust, hopefully it doesn't become authoritarian.  PM's to a person are the most adult way to handle an issue imo.  

''There are ca. 17,250 topics on this site that have "0" responses.  Saying bye-bye to them would trim some content. ''

Bingo..

Garland Bayley

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2015, 09:23:50 PM »
...
5.   Individuals who post more than once a day.   Is it really necessary?  There are people who post thousands of post per year.  I believe you should advocate for giving people (who are not in the golf business) a 30 day time out if they constantly post. 
...

How are people in the industry ever going to learn something if you promote them talking to themselves all the time?

Why would Tom Doak hang out here if all he could do is get the ASGCA line all the time? Dare I suggest that part of the reason Tom does hang out here is to get ideas and opinions from non-industry folk.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2015, 05:25:26 AM »
Joe is one of three owners of the much beloved though money losing GolfClubAtlas.com,
 
Within minutes of making my post, a past poster responded by e-mail, ‘I no longer look at the site but … blah blah blah.’
 
Posters make up only ~30% of the site’s daily page views.

 Keep the ideas and observations coming.

Best,


HI Joe, Ran and Ben.

Have you ever considered you have become victims of this sites "success"?  

So you can prove to me the numbers are up....but the quality? Endless repeat threads and ever shorter posts do not seem like progress to me.

Q? Why do you think there are less IMO pieces?     My A.  IMO GCA is no longer a place for deep or probing thought anymore.  The guys who were really interested have moved on.  Until you find a new hard core the research won't be a key part of what this site is about.

Why don't you believe those old and dead to this site guys? Why do you not see thir reduced participation as a real loss?  I still golf with a no of guys who made this place great and inevitibly we sound like a bunch of old losers saying it ain't what it used to be. Sad in so many ways.

Have you any idea of how long those 70% of non posting viewers spend on the site? There's a lot more computers than ever before so it's inevitable that traffic is up.   But so friggin what?  Shouldn't a site dedicated to the finer aspects of golf course architecture favour quality over quantity?

Where are the new historians?  

Where are the wise guys ( ;))who used to make this place such a wealth of knowledge?  

How did the humour dissapear?  GCA is a bit worthy these days, IMO of course.

When one of your annual rally and refocus the troops messages admitts that there have been losses and tries to do something about them I'll be with you.  Until then I guess as long as the numbers are up then there's nothing to worry about.


Thanks for soliciting my opinion.

Tony


PS Sorry but can't resist

"Popularity is the slutty little cousin of prestige."
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 06:55:03 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

jeffwarne

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2015, 09:36:31 AM »
I'm a little confused.
I'm not sure how participation in threads is a bad thing.
And now in two different threads we are advised to not post more than once a day, and/or even less.(though one posting that managed three posts himself that very day)

Not sure how one has an engaging dialogue with another poster at a one post a day pace.
I would think GCA would be a much less rich place if Tom Doak, Ally McIntosh, Sean Arble, Randy Thompson, Don Mahaffey, and multiple others were restricted to one post on one thread per day. Often the back and forth dialogue brings out interesting new information, or clarifies a misunderstanding best responded to in somewhat real time. These guys are going to tend to post in bursts as their schedule and interesting threads allow, and may have more than one interesting thought per day worth sharing. I may spend 2-3 hours per day here in the winter off season and have made many good friends and visited literally hundreds of great courses as a result of my time spent here both reading and posting. 100% confident if there was a one post per day limit I would check out.
I daresay I would hardly know any of the friends I have made if their posts were limited to one per day.

If it's a storage issue, I get it.
Deleting useless threads? I get that too.
I'll be the first to admit I like a little humor and will occasionally throw in a little sarcasm or humor, but always will keep it respectful.

But stifling participation on worthwhile threads?
I look at old threads from 2000-2002 and I see great topics but the replies and responses are days apart.
Same at Max's. There are many, many, dozens of threads all neatly categorized, but most haven't been replied to in weeks or months, and only 2-3 have any fresh replies. Consequently I go months without checking in over there.

Perhaps the reason the "revered old posters" post less is something else.
I'd say we've lost more than a few from nasty, petty dialogue.
Seems we'd do better to deal with the offenders and call them out by name than to blanketly suggest everyone only post once or less per day.
Unless that's the actual mandate, in which case I would of course honor the site moderaters' requests
Respectfully,
a (formerly?) active poster

and to play off Tony's line in the words of Yogi Berra
"Nobody ever goes to GCA anymore-it's too crowded"
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 09:39:57 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Keith OHalloran

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2015, 10:32:34 AM »
Jeff,
You may have missed it in Joel's post, but as an industry insider, you and Tom Doak and Mahaffey etc are free to post as much as you want. It is the rest of us who can not!  ;D (can't believe I wasted my Jan 11 post on that)

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2015, 10:40:26 AM »
Guys!

Ran simply is asking us to think before we post. Take a little more time, give your thought another turn of the wheel, let the thought get cold and then take another look at it, etc before deciding whether to share that post. Don't throw out the first or second thing that pops into your head.

At some point, we all fail at this, some of us more frequently than others. Three strategies I try to employ to improve my contributions:
1) what Ran said to Ted Sturges before posting or starting a thread: what can be learned about architecture from exploring this?
2) David Schmidt's "your last 10" posts - how many were quality and on-topic? Shoot for 8/10
3) if this post were a thread, how would I feel about the contribution it made? (In other words, I try y to be as discreet before making a post as I am before straying a thread.)

Speaking for myself, I owe it to Ran and the board to make a better effort.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Sven Nilsen

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2015, 11:22:54 AM »
Joel:

Have you been "deputized" by Ran to lay out the new rules, or are your thoughts here on your own initiative.

On the whole I am greatly in favor of quality over quantity.  I'd just like to know whose directive we are working under.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Steve Lapper

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2015, 11:44:17 AM »
Jeff,

Let me help clarify. Participation on threads is and of itself is not a problem.

It's trite and callow responses that fail to push the dialogue along a constructive narrative, thus wasting space and ultimately frustrating Ran, et.al. All too often a good thread starts, reaches its informational peak, and then slips into a relative state of verbal diarrhea. What our beloved leader is hinting at is more substance and less silliness. I don't at all believe he's suggesting there be any hard and fast limit to how often one posts per day, but it is abundantly evident that a handful of people insert a preponderance of opinionated gibberish into discussions more frequently than they ought to. Frankly, as Comrade Stewart notes, Ran is trying to encourage everyone to use self control before hitting the "post" button. Even the most independent of observers can tell from either posting counts or a cursory following who might be more guilty than not.

Critically, this site is viewed throughout the world and across the spectrum of the golf's society. He explicitly wants it to remain a highly valuable venue for golf architecture. The DG was but a part of that...not it's end goal. What is so hard about honoring that and self-filtering out extraneous crap? You are a perfect example of a participant who adds tremendous value and insight, but only rarely delves into the realm of college football or the 50th thread on Augusta's #12. Ran's missive isn't really aimed at the value-enhancers. It is meant for those who tirelessly post every day on something just to see their name and words on the screen.

It was, and remains, Ran's creation and we are compelled and obligated (not simply encouraged) to follow his lead and heed his wishes. He generously donates his time (he could be out honing his hickory game  8) ), money and resources to hosting us at this party....it is only fair we heed his concerns.

Just imagine if it annoyed enough he, Ben and Joe collectively some am and they decided it was no longer worth their while? Are the benefits of using a little more common sense, better judgement and a little less inclination to add verbal excrement worth it in order to remain part of on of golf's greatest modern forums? I think all of us really know the answer and what our role in achieving it is.

Cheers,

Steve
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 11:46:35 AM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Rich Goodale

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2015, 11:58:40 AM »
Ran (and Joel, Steve, etc.)

Check out what's on the first page of the DG.  I've just done that and estimate that the wheat/chaff ratio is well below 1/1000.  I personally would rather spend much more of my time thinking about interesting things I have read on this site regarding golf course archiecture than trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to separate the wheat from the chaff before I am able to identify enough interesting things about which to even begin to think.

Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Patrick_Mucci

Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2015, 12:05:34 PM »
Ran,

Ed Oden's "compilation" thread should be archived in several sections, it's a fantastic thread with invaluable information.

Rich Goodale

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2015, 12:16:51 PM »
I fully agree, Pat, but "archiving" is very different than "frank commentary."  That being said, in order to have much more productive commentary on golf course architecture (frank or otherwise) you need much more professional archiving.

Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Steve Lapper

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Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2015, 01:35:15 PM »
Rich,

  As a former Cardinal you full well know how laborious an archival project would be. So much so that perhaps you might well be the man for the job! :)

 A fair number of us have suggested to golf's most beloved or bitter (should one defeat him on the links) the organizational worthiness of archiving threads. Fundamentally he agrees, however, its a herculean task and made of serious time and cost....something one of the world's most interesting men hasn't enough of.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 04:09:25 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2015, 02:53:25 PM »
Slapper

I'm not even a member of the church, much less a cardinal.  All I want to do move around in a place somewhere between reality and golf.  This place is good enough for the time being.

Slainte
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2015, 03:55:39 PM »
I love this site and think it's great.

But some perspective amongst all the syrupy language: it's just golf, no one is curing cancer of fighting for world peace here. Let's not take ourselves and the game quite so seriously.

Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2015
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2015, 11:58:32 PM »
This site has done a lot of good in the world of golf.   Let's not confuse that world with the real one! Ran, Ben and many others have provided a venue for some often entertaining and sometimes educational banter about GCA. Whatever steps they need to take to occasionally push the dialogue back to the productive are certainly their prerogative.

Thanks guys.

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