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Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2015, 03:09:40 PM »

I think the comfort station idea, as it is currently interpreted by many courses, is far from reflect the traditions of the game.


But this is a good suggestion, Stephen -- apologies for not paying closer attention. So what are best practices in comfort station interpretations?

Free stuff and / or a "signature item" like at NGLA's?

Secret menus like at Sunningdale's?


What do your favorite comfort stations have in common?
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Stephen Davis

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Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2015, 03:36:21 PM »

I think the comfort station idea, as it is currently interpreted by many courses, is far from reflect the traditions of the game.


But this is a good suggestion, Stephen -- apologies for not paying closer attention. So what are best practices in comfort station interpretations?

Free stuff and / or a "signature item" like at NGLA's?

Secret menus like at Sunningdale's?


What do your favorite comfort stations have in common?
Water, but I am admittedly pretty easy to please in this regard. I will say that one of the only things I can ever remember having at a comfort station was a gingerbread cookie from Interlachen. I do like the idea from Auld Daw and putting Ginger Beer (my beverage of choice at golf courses). Apparently, I like ginger (she always was my favorite character on Gillian's Island :D)

Jon Cavalier

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Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2015, 04:07:02 PM »
Well, easy would be to revise the design attribution for every one of Jack's courses, say, by adding Pete Dye as a co-designer.


Whoa, a two-birds-one-stone hack: Gil Hanse builds the new back tees at Streamsong C&C. That is next-level hacking PPallotta!

Okay, what about hacking Somerset Hills' Resistance to Scoring? This course seems to be dragging its knuckles in this category.

It's par 71 and we can't go below par 70, so that leaves us one hole to convert from a par 5 to a 4 (or maybe from a 4 to a 3) -- relax, purists, we're just doing a Scorecard Renovation, not touching the hole. Calm down. Well, I guess we could use a kids tee on a par 4 cum 3 or 5 cum 4 to chunk out 50-100 yards if we needed to.

So which hole do we scorecard hack?



The 18th looks like a good candidate but everybody knows a par 3 finish will kill us in [pick a category].

How bout the 10th? Shortest of the 5s, its 496 from the backs. Heck, that's a run of the mill par 4 in US Open terms.

Please don't even joke about such things at this gem of a golf course. Can't we hack Liberty National instead?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 08:15:09 PM by Jon Cavalier »
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Brent Hutto

Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2015, 04:29:07 PM »
My favorite "comfort station" was one I visisted at Walmer & Kingsdown in 2006. Located between the 10th green and 11th tee if I recall correctly.

The food on offer was a bacon sandwich, beverages are hot tea (in cup-on-saucer, no less) or bottled soda. The bacon was cooked up on a Coleman portable gas stove and served on sliced white break (not toasted). Hot fresh, cooked to order.

I was playing with two members (who I just met on the first tee) in an open medal comp. Played pretty well for the first 10 holes but then we stopped for a sandwich and tea. After about 15-20 minutes sitting around shooting the bull, along with the effects of the greasy bacon, we saw the next group arriving at the 10th green. Hopped up, went directly to the 11th tee and proceeded to shoot about 20 over par for the final eight holes.

In retrospect, not very comforting at all.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2015, 04:52:32 PM »
best comfort stations, period- Diamante...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

jeffwarne

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Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2015, 07:04:49 PM »
You guys get ginger bread cookies,bacon sandwiches and hot dogs from comfort stations? :o :o :o :o
hmmmmmm.....
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2015, 08:09:07 PM »
A diligent person should be able to figure out the return on ambience score of specific amenities such as those, Jeff. You may laugh but a distinctive dish could count for a lot. Many raters rave about things like the turtle soup at Pine Valley, so this is read.

The more I think about it, the more easily I think it could be for a course to hack its scores, particularly in the categories of resistance to scoring, aesthetics, memorability and ambience. There must be consultants out there running these numbers. I could see a lot of courses paying up for secret, easy hacks to the Golf Digest system. A lot of these hacks would work on Golf and Golfweek raters, too. You can't fight being human.

Aesthetics and memorability: we haven't discussed how to hack those but we will starting now. Given the large and growing body of research on memory, I bet people would be shocked how easy it is to manipulate raters without actually changing the course proper. I can see visual cues and other devices, even things like really cool yardage books, working like magic.

On to aesthetics. Plainfield and Inverness are two of the ugliest courses in the 100 Greatest. Who's played either? What are some easy hacks?

Looking at the Plainfield pics in Ran's review, a difficult, expensive hack -- but one that could really pay off -- is making the bunkers look lacy and frilly edged. If that puts a half-point pop in the aesthetics score, then Plainfield makes a move from the 72nd Greatest course in America to 60th, right above Canyata. And that's just off aesthetics. Almost certainly there's an additional pop in memorability -- if they find a half-point there too then the course is knocking on the door of the Greatest 50. Could also see benefits in resistance to scoring and / or shot values: wouldn't surprise me if raters fell into believing those new, frilly bunkers were harder.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2015, 08:21:55 PM »
I've played Plainfield. It's more impressive visually in person as compared to those photos, which don't really capture the elevation change and the small features. That said, it's true it's no Fishers.

If they really wanted to game the rankings on ambiance and memorability, I suppose they could drop in a bunch of flower beds around the greens, toss a bigass fountain into the pond on 3, put up a 50-foot hedge around the sides of the course that are open to the surroundings, and add a bunch of giant trees to border every fairway.

I've never played Inverness.
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Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2015, 08:52:06 PM »
Mark,
    I think Inverness is as visually impressive of a lot of top rated courses I have played. I knew very little about it when I played, but I was immediately impressed when I stepped on the property.

Nigel

BCowan

Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2015, 08:58:03 PM »
''Plainfield and Inverness are two of the ugliest courses in the 100 Greatest. Who's played either? What are some easy hacks?''

Wow.  Maybe Inverness could be like MV and copy two holes from Augusta. ::) ::).   Arbs are real popular it seems.  Alex, I'll take nuances for $500 please.  

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2015, 09:32:53 PM »
A diligent person should be able to figure out the return on ambience score of specific amenities such as those, Jeff. You may laugh but a distinctive dish could count for a lot. Many raters rave about things like the turtle soup at Pine Valley, so this is read.



I'd rave too if I got Turtle Soup in a bathroom (what a comfort station actually is-which was what was tickling me ;D)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Easy Golf Digest course ranking hacks
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2015, 07:54:59 AM »
I've played Plainfield. It's more impressive visually in person as compared to those photos, which don't really capture the elevation change and the small features. That said, it's true it's no Fishers.

If they really wanted to game the rankings on ambiance and memorability, I suppose they could drop in a bunch of flower beds around the greens, toss a bigass fountain into the pond on 3, put up a 50-foot hedge around the sides of the course that are open to the surroundings, and add a bunch of giant trees to border every fairway.

I've never played Inverness.

I get that you're tongue is partly in cheek, but on a serious note instead of annuals I would think a few strategic plantings of perennials would have a positive impact on aesthetics. The hedge is a great idea but obviously not easy. What about stands of trees strategically planted here and there? That might do the trick.

An idea for memorability: put in a few plaques noting where Tiger or someone else hit a drive or an approach shot. Put brief descriptions in the fancy yardage books, too, and have the caddies encourage raters / guests to have a go. If you can, put the plaques on crappy holes. Bingo, you've turned a nothing par 5 or slog of a par 4 into a memorable hole.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.