Cypress Point The Best, yes but the ball and driver may make it....

[Mike Benham]

Make it par 70, get any wind at all, and CPC wouldn't get "killed", anyway.  That's my take and I'm sticking to it.

And get the greens to 12 on the 'ole Stimpmeter ...

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom, thanks for not forgetting my reason to post. I actually was trying to get us on to the ball and club issue with Cypress as the forum. My whole point is the elite players list is no longer just pros, its all the way down past college golfers to good high school guys now. And it is growing every day. Yes, Cypress a par 70, by making 2 or 6 and 10 par 4's is a solution, but the problem is not the course it is the lack of action by the USGA to put a halt to the drivers faces and balls.

[THuckaby2]

JB:

I guess I just don't see the really big hitters and really great players play enough... I've yet to witness a sub-par score at CPC in person.  Oh, I understand how far the big boys hit the ball these days, or at least I think I do.... But I also see so much "normal" golf that maybe I don't recognize equipment as quite the problem that others do.  No one in any club I belong to is shooting any record scores...

TH

[Bill_McBride]

Scott, yes I was being a bit facetious.  #11 is indeed a strong par 4, 445 I'd guess, with an incredible huge dune backdrop.  The only time I played the hole it might as well have been 550 yds the wind was so stout right in our faces. I don't think anybody got any closer to the green than 100 yds in two.  Truly a beast into that wind right off the ocean.  I also had a real problem in that wind with the tee shots on #10 and #17, where we were very exposed (#10 up very high, #17 right on the ocean) and I had trouble staying steady enough for solid contact with the driver.  The wind makes a huge difference at Cypress Point.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

[Bill_McBride]

Tommy, #6?

[Bob_Huntley]

Tommy,

You have opened my eyes, I do not remember the tongue on the rear bunker looking so rectangular. I am playing there tomorrow and will check it again.

[Jimmy Muratt]

Tommy,

Please post any additional pictures that you may have!  Thanks!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom, my concern is not the score although we are having juniors shoot lower scores and hit balls further the last year or two than i have seen ever. I am concerned that the face on the driver and the balls is taking the strategy out of great courses, even Cypress. The risk reward balance is getting out of wack by the distance so many can hit the ball. I did not jump on this earlier this year because I had not really experienced it. I have now and it really came home recently how broad a base of players are 300 plus on the fly now. I use #1 as an example for one either needed a tail wind or to be able to fade the ball to get to the better angle to the green. Now, even i can blow it over with little concern for the risk of a bogie or more by being behind it. In our state am I was being outdriven by 50 to 75 yards, ie 325 to 350, depending on the player and these were just average college golfers. Naturally they only used drivers on a few long 4's and the 5's.

[THuckaby2]

JB:

I guess the difference here is I have yet to see it with my own eyes...I'm sure I will at some point.  When I do, oh yes, my concern will grow and equal yours...

I continue to believe - perhaps naively - that the game remains hard enough such that the strategic options traditionally present at a great course like CPC remain valid, for the vast majority of players anyway.

And I could be very wrong... most likely I am... I sure do trust your judgement and if you are concerned, that too does sway me.

TH

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom, as you know many on here were very concerned earlier this year. It has just really hit me this summer. I have been in a position to watch or play with alot of young ok to good young golfers. The only differnece in their games is they are so much longer than one or two years ago. A lot of the longer is hang time too. lol I probably should have revived the original post rather than bring Cypress into the chat. There are just a few holes there which are great examples and it is such a great strategic course which many have studied. I love to put and chip around the 18th green. The hole has its problems but the green complex is wonderful.

[A_Clay_Man]

And JB, the ball and club issue is only an issue because you are holding on to the numbers. Bill's solution still makes the player execute and at places like cypress executing perfectly on every shot would be exciting to watch let alone achieve. Maybe that's why when the boys come to town for the AT&T they get jazzed, bigtime, about playing CPC. And it's all about the fun and the golf otherwise their time would be much better spent learning the greens at Spy or Poppy.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Am I the only one with suspicions that this photo of #6 at CPC may have been doctored? The bunker to the front left of the green and the central, rectangular flange of the bunker behind the green both look surreal to me - especially the former, with no real shadows or textures. If the photo hasn't been doctored (and the course has), then it looks really, really bad and should be fixed yesterday.

FWIW, my one experience of CPC has me believing that, all else being equal in terms of wind and weather, it's the easiest course on the Peninsula - easier than Pebble, Spanish Bay, Poppy Hills, Spyglass Hill or MPCC-Dunes, anyway. (Haven't played MPCC-Shore yet; I'm not including Pacific Grove in this comparison, of which I've only played nine holes.) But then, I'm not of the school of thought which thinks a course has to be difficult to get a 10 on the Doak Scale. And CPC was at least an 11 on said scale when I played it...

Cheers,
Darren

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Darren, I can assure you that the photo hasnot been doctored in anyway. The only thing done to it was it was sized so it could fit the page.

[Bob_Huntley]

Darren,

As you know I play them both, one more frequently than the other.

Many years ago I managed to scrape it below par at both places, but for the life of me I always manage to butcher a couple of holes and score higher at the Point than I do at MPCC. It continues to this day.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Tommy, if that's the real photo, then so be it. But a) do you not also see why I might think that the photo had been doctored from those two bunkers, and b) do you not also think those two bunkers look really rather weird?

Bob, would you classify your experience at CPC as a personal mental thing or something from which you might generalize to the golfing public at large? Sounds to me like the former, but then, my memories of MPCC-Dunes are rather less distinct than my memories of CPC (even though I played the latter 10 years before the former - funny, that). If you think CPC is tougher than MPCC-Dunes, I'll respect that opinion...

Cheers,
Darren

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Darren, see my complaints on the other thread. From what I can see, these bunkers are not what I would call natural in aspect. Yes, they do look doctored in the photo, but I have blown them up and there isn't a single doctoring that I can tell.

Do I like them? No. I think the only thing that is missing here now is Astroturf and cart path.

I still love Cypress Point, much the same way I still love Merion-East. They both are not the same courses as they once were because of all of the politics involved with maintenance. Everyody has an idea what they should look like, unforutnately, it is tough to get them on the same page. These pictures are evidence true of that.

[Bob_Huntley]

Tommy.

Hush boy and go and wash out your mouth!  

[Bob_Huntley]

Toomy,

I meant to use your quote, "Do I like them? No. I think the only thing that is missing here now is Astroturf and cart path."

Hush boy and go and wash out your mouth!    

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Bob, Hit it in the trap if not the green on 9 for me today and then get it up and down for birdie. Have a great round my friend! The fog looks to be breaking up on the sky cam at big sur.