Epicurean Election 2014-15 (GCA version of CG "Gourmet's Choice")

[Ronald Montesano]

PPS to Ron:  I have always made a list of courses first, and then limited myself to only using one course per architect.  I'm not trying to highlight architects, so much as to not play favorites.  My list of candidate courses for North & South America includes the work of 61 different architects (!) so it would be silly to let a few dominate the list.

This is good to note. I'm going to add it to my concurrent thread. Thank you, Tom. Good luck in the paring process.

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A quick bounce to thesaurus.com reveals "epicurean" to be arguably synonymous with "gourmet."  "Election" more or less corresponds with "choice." Therefore, so as to not commit outright and convictable larceny of the term "Gourmet's Choice," we'll go with Epicurean Election. We shall use the original Confidential Guide rules of one course per architect. Let us determine the 31 Baskin-Robbins architects. I've listed eleven classic and eleven contemporary (more or less) as common ground. The remaining 9 are up to you. After each architect, list your Epicurean Election for favorite golf course by that architect. Here is the list. Copy/paste it into your thread entry.

Keep Tom Doak's words {see above} in mind.

1   --  Donald J. Ross
2   --  Alister MacKenzie
3   --  Harry Colt
4   --  CB McDonald
5   --  AW Tillinghast
6   --  Old Tom Morris
7   --  Perry Maxwell
8   --  Walter J. Travis
9   --  Seth Raynor  
10   --  Charles Alison
11   --  Stanley Thompson
12   --
13   --
14   --
15   --
16   --
17   --
18   --
19   --
20   --    
21   --  Gil Hanse
22   --  Mike Hurdzan/Dana Fry
23   --  Jack Nicklaus
24   --  Pete Dye
25   --  David Kidd
26   --  Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw
27   --  Tom Doak/Renaissance Golf
28   --  Robert Trent Jones I
29   --  Robert Trent Jones II
30   --  Rees Jones
31   --  Tom Fazio

[Tommy Williamsen]

Off the top of my head--James Braid, William Fowler, and Jeff Brauer.

[Mark Saltzman]

Dick Wilson?
Arnold Palmer?
Greg Norman?
William Flynn?
Jim Engh?
Willie Park Jr?
Rod Whitman?

[Jon Cavalier]

Devereaux Emmet
Charles Banks

Lester George

[Daniel Jones]

Another vote for James Braid and/or Dick Wilson

[Mark Bourgeois]

Is this supposed to be just USA? It has to be except for the odd OTM reference.

Emmet
Joe Lee (given who else you have, he fits)
Wm Watson
Bell
Langford & Moreau
Wilson
Flynn
Banks
Bendelow

[Pete_Pittock]

I don't think he wants us to decide which nine architects to add. Each one is to pick their choice of courses for the 22 GCAs listed, plus nine more architects of your own choice. He's not looking for a consensus on those nine.

[jeffwarne]

a few cuts/substitutions from Ron's list
For example I haven't played a RTJ Jr. I loved.


1   --  Donald J. Ross-Augusta CC-firstlove
2   --  Alister MacKenzie-ANGC-second love
3   --  Harry Colt-Aberdovey
4   --  CB McDonald-Sleepy Hollow
5   --  AW Tillinghast-SFGC
6   --  Old Tom Morris-Prestwick
7   --  Perry Maxwell-Old Town
8   --  Walter J. Travis-Cape Arundel
9   --  Seth Raynor-Yeaman's Hall  
10   --  Charles Alison-Timber Point
11   --  Stanley Thompson-Highlands Links
12   --William Langford-Lawsonia
13   --Herbert Strong-Engineers
14   --Herbert Fowler-Eastward Ho
15   --James Braid-Pennard
16   --Herbert Leeds-Myopia
17   --Eddie Hackett-Waterville
18   --Mike Young-The Fields
19   --Willie Park-Maidstone
20   --Tom Simpson-  Carlow  
21   --  Gil Hanse-Boston Golf Club
22   --  Mike Hurdzan/Dana Fry-Erin Hills
23   --  Jack Nicklaus-Melrose
24   --  Pete Dye-Long Cove
25   --  George Thomas-Riviera
26   --  Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw-Friar's Head
27   --  Tom Doak/Renaissance Golf-Renaissance Club
28   --  Robert Trent Jones -Carombola
29   -- Devereaux Emmett-Glen Head
30   --  Rees Jones-Three Ponds Farm
31   --  Tom Fazio-World Woods PB

[Ronald Montesano]

Off the top of my head--James Braid, William Fowler, and Jeff Brauer.

The remaining 9 are up to you.

[Ronald Montesano]

Dick Wilson?
Arnold Palmer?
Greg Norman?
William Flynn?
Jim Engh?
Willie Park Jr?
Rod Whitman?

The remaining 9 are up to you.

[Ronald Montesano]

Another vote for James Braid and/or Dick Wilson

The remaining 9 are up to you.

[Ronald Montesano]

Is this supposed to be just USA? It has to be except for the odd OTM reference.

Emmet
Joe Lee (given who else you have, he fits)
Wm Watson
Bell
Langford & Moreau
Wilson
Flynn
Banks
Bendelow

The remaining 9 are up to you.

[Ronald Montesano]

I don't think he wants us to decide which nine architects to add. Each one is to pick their choice of courses for the 22 GCAs listed, plus nine more architects of your own choice. He's not looking for a consensus on those nine.

The remaining 9 are up to ... oh, wait, Pete YOU GOT IT!!!

[J_ Crisham]

a few cuts/substitutions from Ron's list
For example I haven't played a RTJ Jr. I loved.
Disclaimer-haven't played Wolf Pointe or Pac Dunes but by all accounts they qualify as Gourmet's Choices.

1   --  Donald J. Ross-Augusta CC-firstlove
2   --  Alister MacKenzie-ANGC-second love
3   --  Harry Colt-Aberdovey
4   --  CB McDonald-Sleepy Hollow
5   --  AW Tillinghast-SFGC
6   --  Old Tom Morris-Prestwick
7   --  Perry Maxwell-Old Town
8   --  Walter J. Travis-Cape Arundel
9   --  Seth Raynor-Yeaman's Hall  
10   --  Charles Alison-Timber Point
11   --  Stanley Thompson-Highlands Links
12   --William Langford-Lawsonia
13   --Herbert Strong-Engineers
14   --Herbert Fowler-Eastward Ho
15   --James Braid-Pennard
16   --Herbert Leeds-Myopia
17   --Eddie Hackett-Waterville
18   --Mike Young-The Fields
19   --Mike Nuzzo-Wolf Point
20   --Kelly Blake Moran-Laurel Links    
21   --  Gil Hanse-Boston Golf Club
22   --  Mike Hurdzan/Dana Fry-Calusa Pines
23   --  Jack Nicklaus-Melrose
24   --  Pete Dye-Long Cove
25   --  George Thomas-Riviera
26   --  Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw-Friar's Head
27   --  Tom Doak/Renaissance Golf-Pacific Dunes
28   --  Robert Trent Jones -Carombola
29   -- Devereaux Emmett-Glen Head
30   --  Rees Jones-Haig Point
31   --  Tom Fazio-World Woods PB

CBM -  Sleepy Hollow over CGC or SLCC ?
Fazio - WW over Forest Creek N or Shadow Creek?
KBM - Laurel Links over The Hideout?
Raynor- Yeamans over Camargo or Shoreacres?
Maxwell- Old Town over Prairie Dunes and Crystal Downs?
Mckenzie - ANGC over CPC or Pasa?
Ross- Augusta over Wannamoissette or Plainfield ?
      Interesting choices - curious why you chose yours over the ones I've listed?

[Joe_Tucholski]

I have some voids but figured I'd give my list.

1   --  Donald J. Ross - York Golf and Tennis Club (I'll start with the course I learned to play the game)
2   --  Alister MacKenzie - Pasatiempo
3   --  Harry Colt - Royal Hague
4   --  CB MacDonald - The Greenbrier - Old White Course
5   --  AW Tillinghast - Have not played one
6   --  Old Tom Morris - Royal Dornoch
7   --  Perry Maxwell - Have not played one
8   --  Walter J. Travis - East Potomac Park (only Travis I have played and don't think much of it is Travis anymore)
9   --  Seth Raynor - Monterey Peninsula Country Club
10   --  Charles Alison - Not sure I've played a course primarily by Alison (want to play Kawana in 2015)
11   --  Stanley Thompson - Have not played one
12   --  William Flynn - The Homestead
13   --  George Thomas - Ojai Valley Inn
14   --  James Braid - Pennard (my toughest choice because I have really enjoyed every Braid course I've played)
15   --  William P. Bell - Torrey Pines
16   --  Ellis Maples - Pinehurst #5
17   --  Arthur Hills - Half Moon Bay
18   --  Gene Bates - Circling Raven
19   --  Jim Engh - Redlands Mesa
20   --  Lee Schmidt/Brian Curley - Terra Lago
21   --  Gil Hanse - Rustic Canyon
22   --  Mike Hurdzan/Dana Fry - Have not played one
23   --  Jack Nicklaus - Machynys Peninsula Golf Club (on my month long trip to the UK this is the only course I wouldn't revisit)
24   --  Pete Dye - PGA West Stadium
25   --  David Kidd - Bandon Dunes
26   --  Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw - Dormie
27   --  Tom Doak/Renaissance Golf - Pacific Dunes
28   --  Robert Trent Jones I - Eisenhower Golf Club Blue (I've played more rounds on this course than any other)
29   --  Robert Trent Jones II - Prince Golf Course
30   --  Rees Jones - Golden Horseshoe (don't think I've played a Rees only course)
31   --  Tom Fazio - The Cliffs at Keowee Vineyards

[Ronald Montesano]

I'm going to restrict this to ones that I've played, so I'll have to sub out a few architects that i put in.

1   --  Donald J. Ross                         Country Club of Buffalo
2   --  William Harries                        Sheridan Park
3   --  Herbert Leeds                           Kebo Valley
4   --  CB McDonald                           Yale
5   --  AW Tillinghast                         Bethpage Black
6   --  Old Tom Morris                        St. Andrews Old Course
7   --  Perry Maxwell                          Old Town Club
8   --  Walter J. Travis                        Country Club of Troy
9   --  Seth Raynor                            Fox Chapel
10   --  Charles Alison                        Park Country Club
11   --  Stanley Thompson                  Whirlpool Golf Course
12   --  Stiles/Van Kleek                     Taconic
13   --  Herbert Fowler                       Eastward Ho!
14   --  Devereux Emmett                   Leatherstocking
15   --  Hugh Wilson                          Merion East
16   --  Arthur Hills                                Bay Harbor
17   --  Scott Witter                               Arrowhead
18   --  Architect Unknown                       Indian Spring (Indiana, PA VFW)
19   --  Desmond Muirhead                        River Oaks
20   --  Lester George                               Ballyhack  
21   --  Mike Strantz                                Tobacco Road
22   --  Mike Hurdzan/Dana Fry                  Cooks Creek
23   --  Ron Garl                                     Victoria Hills                                
24   --  Pete Dye                                     Blackwolf Run Meadows Valley (and I played all four at the resort!!)
25   --  David Kidd                                   Bandon Dunes
26   --  Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw                 Bandon Trails
27   --  Tom Doak/Renaissance Golf             Pacific Dunes
28   --  Robert Trent Jones I                       Golden Horseshoe Gold
29   --  Robert Trent Jones II                      Seneca Hickory Stick
30   --  Rees Jones                                   Currituck Club
31   --  Tom Fazio                                    Atunyote

[jeffwarne]

a few cuts/substitutions from Ron's list
For example I haven't played a RTJ Jr. I loved.
Disclaimer-haven't played Wolf Pointe or Pac Dunes but by all accounts they qualify as Gourmet's Choices.

1   --  Donald J. Ross-Augusta CC-firstlove
2   --  Alister MacKenzie-ANGC-second love
3   --  Harry Colt-Aberdovey
4   --  CB McDonald-Sleepy Hollow
5   --  AW Tillinghast-SFGC
6   --  Old Tom Morris-Prestwick
7   --  Perry Maxwell-Old Town
8   --  Walter J. Travis-Cape Arundel
9   --  Seth Raynor-Yeaman's Hall  
10   --  Charles Alison-Timber Point
11   --  Stanley Thompson-Highlands Links
12   --William Langford-Lawsonia
13   --Herbert Strong-Engineers
14   --Herbert Fowler-Eastward Ho
15   --James Braid-Pennard
16   --Herbert Leeds-Myopia
17   --Eddie Hackett-Waterville
18   --Mike Young-The Fields
19   --Mike Nuzzo-Wolf Point
20   --Kelly Blake Moran-Laurel Links    
21   --  Gil Hanse-Boston Golf Club
22   --  Mike Hurdzan/Dana Fry-Calusa Pines
23   --  Jack Nicklaus-Melrose
24   --  Pete Dye-Long Cove
25   --  George Thomas-Riviera
26   --  Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw-Friar's Head
27   --  Tom Doak/Renaissance Golf-Pacific Dunes
28   --  Robert Trent Jones -Carombola
29   -- Devereaux Emmett-Glen Head
30   --  Rees Jones-Haig Point
31   --  Tom Fazio-World Woods PB

CBM -  Sleepy Hollow over CGC or SLCC ? not played others-loved Sleepy
Fazio - WW over Forest Creek N or Shadow Creek?not played others nor do I seek Fazio stuff out on purpose
KBM - Laurel Links over The Hideout?not played other
Raynor- Yeamans over Camargo or Shoreacres?not played others-loved Yeamans haven't heard glowing reviews of CGC, but have of Shoreacres
Maxwell- Old Town over Prairie Dunes and Crystal Downs?not played others-I think many would associate CD with Mackenzie
Mckenzie - ANGC over CPC or Pasa?Augusta homer
Ross- Augusta over Wannamoissette or Plainfield ?see notes Augusta homer-lots of great choices for Ross
      Interesting choices - curious why you chose yours over the ones I've listed?

Main reason?
It's my list?

[Jim Nugent]

1   --  Donald J. Ross
2   --  Alister MacKenzie
3   --  Harry Colt
4   --  CB McDonald
5   --  AW Tillinghast
6   --  Old Tom Morris
7   --  Perry Maxwell
8   --  Walter J. Travis
9   --  Seth Raynor  
10   --  Charles Alison
11   --  Stanley Thompson

21   --  Gil Hanse
22   --  Mike Hurdzan/Dana Fry
23   --  Jack Nicklaus
24   --  Pete Dye
25   --  David Kidd
26   --  Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw
27   --  Tom Doak/Renaissance Golf
28   --  Robert Trent Jones I
29   --  Robert Trent Jones II
30   --  Rees Jones
31   --  Tom Fazio

Ron, a point of curiosity.  Why do you list Doak as "Tom Doak/Renaisance Golf", and not simply Tom Doak? 

[J_ Crisham]

Jeff- fair enough- your list is your list. Looks like you should explore the Midwest- some pretty solid Raynor, CBM, Maxwell work to see. It's not Long Island but still really good IMO

[jeffwarne]

Jeff- fair enough- your list is your list. Looks like you should explore the Midwest- some pretty solid Raynor, CBM, Maxwell work to see. It's not Long Island but still really good IMO

CBM
why not NGLA?

[J_ Crisham]

Jeff- fair enough- your list is your list. Looks like you should explore the Midwest- some pretty solid Raynor, CBM, Maxwell work to see. It's not Long Island but still really good IMO

CBM
why not NGLA?

I agree - NGLA is certainly CBMs best - due in large part to it being a much better piece of property than Chicago Golf which is flattish . I believe the greens at Chicago are better than those at NGLA. SLCC is a good piece of property but the course isn't in the same league as NGLA IMO .

[Thomas Dai]

David Brown, Open Champion 1886 - once of Musselburgh, at the time of Malvern, later of the USA. - who laid out the original 9-holes at one of the most spoken about courses on GCA.................Painswick.
atb

[Sean_A]

A list of this sort is bound to be filled with either numerous mysterious choices or at the other end of the spectrum, obvious choices because so few people (by few I mean the number can likely be counted on one hand) have played a sound representative splattering of 31 prominent archies. 

Sorry to go off topic Ronald, but I thought since the new version of the CG splits the world into regions, so too will the Gormet's Choice (I can only presume).  When I think of the GB&I selection from the original 31 Flavours and the addition of the new Gourmet's Choice I think of perhaps the best selection of courses one could possibly hope to recommend in GB&I.

Addington (Aber)
             Askernish (OTM)
Ballybunion (T Simpson)
             Brancaster
             County Down (Coombe/Colt)
Dornoch (Sutherland)
             Lahinch (Dr Mac)
North Berwick
            Notts (Park Jr)
            Painswick (Brown)
            Pennard (Braid)
            Prestwick (OTM)
            Pulborough (3 Colonels)
Rye
TOC
St Enodoc (Braid)
St Georges Hill (Colt)
           Sacred 9 (Dunn/Colt)
           Sandwich
           Swinley Forest (Colt)
           Walton Heath (Fowler)
Westward Ho! (Fowler)
Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin)


Looking at the 23 courses (A combined list) there is not a single course Doak & Co have failed to convince me to play. Sure, there is the odd course which I think may have been ignored, but as a list of 23 trying to represent a broad spectrum of archies, its nigh on impossible to grumble.  What strikes me most about the 23 courses is the heavy representation of England.  I wonder if Ran led this charge as he seems to be a hige fan of Englsih golf.  Finally, it would seem that when talking about GB&I golf, one cannot rattle off too many courses until the name Colt appears. 

Sorry to have gine off topic Ronald, but i thought

Anyway, for those of you who are travelling to GB&I, save this list.

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Compared to some of the new chaps rather odd omissions are;

Willie Park Jnr who designed Sunningdale Old, Maidstone and Olympia Fields.

JF Abercromby The Addington, Worplesdon, Knole Park, Hilversum and Liphook.

Herbert Fowler Saunton, Walton Heath and The Berkshire

[Joe_Tucholski]

The other challenge is attributing an architect to a course.  Some courses were built by a team, some by an associate and courses that have been around for some length of time are bound to have changes.