What five (5) golf courses would you restore and why ?

[BCowan]

1. Plum Hollow
2. Grosse Ile
3. Southern Pines
4. Inverness
5. Western
6. Sylvania

[Thomas Dai]

Saunton - back to what Herbert Fowler laid out before WWII changed it
Minchinhampton Old - back to pre-roadways/H&S changes
Swansea Bay - back to pre-WWI/industrial expansion
A whole load of farmers field courses built in the 1960's-70's-80's-90's and some big money recent projects - back to nature - ouch!

Atb

[Brian Finn]

This is a good thread.  Interesting to see some courses named that have since been significantly restored.

One course that I thought would benefit tremendously from a restoration is El Campeon at Mission Inn (FL).  As it is today, the course is extremely fun and interesting architecturally, but it could use many, many (no idea the #) fewer trees, in addition to some bunker work and re-capturing of edges/perimeter of greens.

The Asheville (NC) muni is a darn good Ross that could really shine with the right work.

I'd love to see Granville (OH) restored...a full restoration would require demolishing a neighborhood that was built over most of the last few holes, but with 14 really good holes still there, it would be great to see some improvement to the new clunkers.

Bethpage Green (NY) has always been a favorite of mine.  I'd be interested in seeing it receive as much TLC as the Red course has.  There is some really awesome and different stuff out there.

My last one is a bit further from home...Olivos GC (Buenos Aires).  It has incredible 'bones' and is maintained very well with the exception that it is choked by trees.  A widening and general freshening up might make it a stronger contender for best in Argentina.

[hhuffines]

Southern Pines GC

[Ryan Taylor]

1. Pebble Beach
2. Augusta National
3. Oakland Hills South
4. Lookout Mountain
5. Pinehurst #4 - Hanse redesign
5. The Lido (See Streamsong thread)

[V_Halyard]

1. Plum Hollow
2. Grosse Ile
3. Southern Pines
4. Inverness
5. Western
6. Sylvania

Nice Restart Ben. Interesting to read those that have been done since the thread began.
I'll start in the Midwest:

1:  Wakonda CC - (Iowa) So much potential with the ghost of Langford sleeping in plain site.
     You can see trees planted in the middle of original bunkers.
2:  Riviera CC
3:  Yale U GC - Deserved and due
4:  Wellshire GC - Denver a sleeping Ross
5:  Wilson in LA Griffith Park or Rancho Park
     Either would benefit from Doak/C&C/Hanse/Prichard/Forse Style big idea restoration/re-imagination
     Potential to deliver Bethpage type results  More room to work at Wilson

[Tim Gavrich]

Hop Meadow CC - The course I grew up playing had some cool amoeba-shaped greens originally (1961; Geoff Cornish), but by the time I was getting to know it, they were basically all ovals or circles.


Manchester CC - The course cites Bendelow, Emmet and Tillinghast as influences. There are some spots where Golden Age features shine through, but not enough. Could be really something with a little restorative love.



Lake Wales CC - Would love to see what Raynor features and aesthetics could be recovered and the extent to which it could give Mountain Lake a run for its money.


Lexington G&CC - My home course in college; has undoubtedly lost some square-footage of greens over the years and trees have encroached.


Tot Hill Farm - I think some features have fallen by the wayside; would love to see them brought back.

[JJShanley]

I'm going to substitute "renovate" for "restore" because reasons, for my list of courses on which I'd blow a PowerBall win.


1. Elbel Park in South Bend, which has a super piece of land with much potential.
2. Braid Hills, not to remove the quirk, but to make better use of the land used on the NLE #2.
3. I'd love to see someone use the land at Musselburgh (Monktonhall) for something more fun than exists there.
4. Ed Oliver in Wilmington struck me as a cool layout that could benefit from some TLC.
5. The Glen, North Berwick.  Will never scale the highs of NBWL on the other side of town, but a course I've always enjoyed.
6. University of Maryland, because their redo of the Cobb design does the property no justice.

[Sean_A]

#1 on my list remains Princes...pre-war Princes.


#2...I am not sure about a restoration, but some serious work...Grosse Ile


#3 on my list is Huntercombe...imagine the trees gone and some of those bunkers put back into play? 


#4 on my list Beau Desert....just cut nearly all the trees down


#5 on my list Royal Zoute....no restoration...just a complete rethink...that land, soil and turf is too good for what exists


Ciao

[Richard Fisher]

If I knew how to load pictures properly, I would scan the course plan of Prince's from the 1932 Open Championship progamme, and post it here, just to reinforce Sean's point: in like vein I also have somewhere, or had, some photos of pre-war Prince's from the Oxford-Cambridge match of 1937, in which my uncle Neill was a participant. It does look fabulous, and the oft-repeated statement that 'Prince's was flattened during the war' looks pretty much true.

Agree with Sean completely re Huntercombe, even though the trees and associated undergrowth are now coming down at a considerable rate. Also agree with Thomas Dai re pre-war Saunton (West, especially), and pre-motorway Swansea Bay, when the latter was arguably the premier club in Glamorgan apart from Porthcawl (with whom I think it shares part of a clubhouse...).

With modern technology, I think that Harlech could now make a go of the 2-3 experimental holes opened (very briefly) during the 1920s, in the big sand dunes south of the 16th (you can make out one of these old fairways very easily from the 16th fairway), but given up before the 1926 Ladies' Championship because of blown sand. That could be fabulous, and please those like Tom D who want to see more use made of the duneland than the present layout manifests.

Above all, though, I would like to restore to life the Royal Isle of Wight Golf Club, Bembridge. Friends in the golf history world have hit shots in the dunes on the Duver, as it called, and you can even stay in the old clubhouse, but to me anyway this 'engaging cats'-cradle' of a seaside links remains, along with Bramshot and Addington (New), the greatest NLE in England, not least because Worlington would still have a genuine rival for the accolade of  'Best Nine-Hole Course' if Bembridge could be brought back to life. Albeit for a maximum of about fifty players a day!

[Anthony_Nysse]

1. Plum Hollow
2. Grosse Ile
3. Southern Pines
4. Inverness
5. Western
6. Sylvania

Inverness is going under the knife this year.

[JohnH]

1. Plum Hollow
2. Grosse Ile
3. Southern Pines
4. Inverness
5. Western
6. Sylvania

I would be interested in reading your reasoning for each redo/restoration.

[Ian Andrew]

3. Westchester CC     Ken Dyes work  does not seem sympathetic to   Travis ;  tree management is also  needed

I actually got to pitch that idea to them and lost out to Fazio who renovated the courses some more.
Worked out well though, Joe recommended me to other clubs to interview, I ended up with a couple from that.

[Ian Andrew]

My Stanley Thompson Five:

1. Highland Golf Links, if you have seen all the old photos, you would realize how much better it could be.
2. Cataraqui is all there waiting to be reclaimed. One of the best and easiest Thompson courses to recapture
3. St George's; This is one of the four changed greens, all are well photographed and two are completely still intact.
4. Banff Springs back to the pre-Robinson, 18 holes, original routing, restoration of bunkers using the old photos.
5. The origional York Downs

Hindsight was fun for me.... worked on first three, quoted to do the work on fourth one and last one remains as it should at this point ... a public park (I think my opinions have changed too).

[Ian Andrew]

My New Canadian  Five

1. Montebello (QU) was the next best course he did after Thompson's Big Five
Routing is intact - architecture is all gone - lots of pictures and drawings  - and I even have the hole plans
2. Digby Pines (NS) clever resort course, some great bunkering, eroding rather than lost
3. Mount Bruno (QU) - this one is easy if everyone decides that is now the goal - lots of information and images
4. Hamilton (ON) - we have everything you would need to return Colt including his plans
(this is important because Hawtree's work at Toronto was anything but a restoration)
5. Anne of Green Gables (PEI) - return the golf course to the dunes - some of the other inland work has been done well


Obviously I have work to do at Highlands Links and St. Georges, would still like to fix Banff Springs, would like to correct the changes made to Jasper Park and I have one western course that I think I could help make the work more restorative.

[BCowan]

1. Plum Hollow- This courses bones are really sick.  Massive tree removal and drainage are top priority.  Then I would hire Foster to the Alison features.  I'd sand cap the 13th hole and build up the fairway to .  I'd consider moving 18th green back in the hill. Restore the Alison mowing lines that have been lost.  Some of the greens have shrunk.  This course could be the best in the D IMO.  Due to drainage and tree removal it would cost a lot but could recover it if owned privately. 

2. Grosse Ile-  The best set of Ross greens or possibly any greens that I've played.  Drainage, Drainage, and more Drainage.  Tree removal in the driving zone and around greens.  Some sand capping in driving zones and approaches.  Re grassed.  The course plays way to soft and is tired.   I'd remove a lot of the cart paths that destroy some of the holes, the 1st comes to mind.  The bunkering needs to be restored as well. 

3. Southern Pines-  I've only played the course once, so Chris Buie would be consulted first.  Tree removal seems to be priority one.  Some drainage in areas.  Ran and Chris would be in charge.  I'd try and improve turf conditions and tree removal would help IMO.   

4. Inverness-   I'd restore some of the Ross cross bunkers.  Restore the lost width.  Some of the Ross greens I'd restore.  I'd bring the original par 3 8th back!  Make current 8th a par 4 semi Cape.  The new 8th green would be located 100-125 cards south of where it is on top of the ridge by the edge.  I'd blow up holes 3-6, and make 2 holes out of it. 

5. Western-    Restore the greens which have shrunk a lot.  Remove all the Hills bunkers that are by the River.  The River has too much brush covering it.  Drainage is very important.  Raise with capping some of the low are holes.  Crown those fairways.  The 2 holes that were switched directions on the back 9, I'd look those over.  Course needs lots of tree removal too. 

6. Sylvania-   Restore the lost green space.  Bring the Park bunkering back.  Regrass the course and it needs new Irrigation system.  Continued tree removal, lots more! 

Possibly look at turning 7 back into the par 5 it was and eliminating the 6th hole.  Turn 17 into a par 4 and bring the short par 3 after it back.  These ideas are bold and need some review.   

[V_Halyard]

#5 on my list Royal Zoute....no restoration...just a complete rethink...that land, soil and turf is too good for what exists

Ciao

Fav line of thread.  Just because something was original doesn't automatically mean its worthy of restoration.

[Rees Milikin]

Purely for selfish reasons (near me) b/c there are more that are in a dire need/deserving of a restoration.


Lekarica (Lake Wales, FL)


Lake Wales CC


Lake Pierce (Lake Wales, FL) - NLE, but the land hasn't ever been altered or used since it died, so using an old aerial and Ross plan could bring it back to life.


Mission Inn - El Campeon


Eglin AFB - L&M course

[MClutterbuck]

1. The Jockey Club - Red.


Because it is a very interesting Alister MacKenzie course that has been neglected and needs restoration of bunkers, some greens, tree removal, new green surfaces and updated maintenance guidelines.


2. The Jockey Club - Blue


Same story.


3. San Andres Golf Club


Restore greens and bunkers to what Mungo Park and Luther Koontz designed. Koontz sole influence was Mackenzie. Clear trees. Add length. Convert one par 5 to a par 4 (already done in competition). Clear more trees and add waste areas as originally presented by Park instead.


Why, because they are close to home and could become Doak 7s with the appropriate work done. Maybe even higher Tom for the Red?

[Declan Kavanagh]

Nice Restart Ben. Interesting to read those that have been done since the thread began.
I'll start in the Midwest:

1:  Wakonda CC - (Iowa) So much potential with the ghost of Langford sleeping in plain site.
     You can see trees planted in the middle of original bunkers.
2:  Riviera CC
3:  Yale U GC - Deserved and due
4:  Wellshire GC - Denver a sleeping Ross
5:  Wilson in LA Griffith Park or Rancho Park
     Either would benefit from Doak/C&C/Hanse/Prichard/Forse Style big idea restoration/re-imagination
     Potential to deliver Bethpage type results  More room to work at Wilson



Is there any hope for Yale?  Also who is doing the Inverness reno?

[Rob Collins]

-Augusta National - I'm of the belief that if the original MacKenzie / Jones design concepts were restored to the course that the tournament would see a more consistently thrilling & dramatic style of play without losing the necessary challenge.


-Pebble Beach - The best bunker restoration in the world? Definitely in the discussion....Also, I'd love to see the lower fairway on the 9th brought back into play.


-Lahinch - I'd love to see the rugged appearance of the bunkers brought back to the course. The 'pons asinorum' bunker has to be one of the all time greats.


-Yale - We probably all agree on that.


-Lookout Mountain - As a Chattanooga native, it would be a thrill to see Raynor's plan fully implemented.


-I feel compelled to throw in Oakland Hills.  If the bunkering & strategy matched the greens....wow. Too bad the plan was recently voted down.

[MCirba]

1) Cobb's Creek



2) Timber Point
3) Inverness (to original Ross routing)
4) Forsgate (Banks)  (mostly tree removal)
5) Foxburg
6) Continue tree removal at Cape Breton Highlands

Off the top of my head.

[Sam Krume]

How about the Adington New? Darwin thought it Abercromby's best and you'd only have to knock down some of those houses. Oh well.

That one definitely sprang to mind. I would also love to see The Add as it was, not strangled by trees as it is now. Another one is Princes. Apparently it was tremendous and a real rival to Sandwich. I understand that it was just under 7,000 yards and it was thought of as a great test!!

[Ben Hollerbach]

1) North Fulton: A gem of a routing with a wonderful lineage. Under the right direction it could become Atlanta's "Bethpage"


2) Pinehurst No.3: In this case, by restore I would mean truly restored to the original no.3 routing. Pinehurst is missing something special by not restoring this course to its former formidable self.


3) Gibson Island Club: Maybe it's just the setting, but the pictures I've seen of the original course look simply spectacular.


4) Belvedere: Maybe the least "needed" of the bunch, but I'd love to see this place today with the bunker scheme of yesterday.


5*)Country Club of Asheville: Hopefully not necessary, but that won't be known until the course re-opens this spring.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

[size=0pt]1.[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]The Olympic Club – Lake[/size]
[size=0pt]2.[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]The Olympic Club – Lake[/size]
[size=0pt]3.[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]The Olympic Club – Lake[/size]
[size=0pt]4.[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]The Olympic Club – Ocean[/size]
[size=0pt]5.[/size][size=0pt][/size][size=0pt]Lake Merced G&CC[/size]
[size=0pt]Seriously, it’s time. To our paraphrase our Twitterer, I mean Commander (cough, cough) in Chief, let’s “Make Olympic Great Again”.[/size]
[size=0pt]If I’m not mistaken, every major course in the Bay Area, except these three, have had significant restorations/renovations by top-tier architects (except maybe Stanford GC). The same can be said for our Southern California brethren. Yet, the OC continues on a path of head-scratching, piecemeal work on the Lake course… from completely changing three holes, which have negatively altered the course’s compact routing, to a recent bunker project that’s more akin to a skateboard park than bunker design.[/size]
[size=0pt]And, much like “MAGA” draws much scrutiny as to which era we should return to “greatness”, restoring the Lake course would surely raise similar questions. Is it to the original Watson design? Or, is it to the RTJ design in preparation for the 1955 US Open. Or something else (i.e. like Seth Raynor's vision that hangs in the Locker Room)? I don’t know that answer, and that’s why I’d love to see a first rate design firm provide leadership on this.[/size]
[size=0pt]For Olympic’s Ocean course, in an ideal world, it would be amazing if we were able to recapture some of the lost holes on the other side of Skyline Blvd. which were set among the bluff overlooking the Pacific. Don’t see that happening. Short of that, since there are so many iterations of the Ocean that I’m not sure what one could possibly restore to, a renovation of this course as completely opposite of its sibling, the Lake, would be interesting (i.e. Lake = championship/Ocean = Sporty; Lake = Tree and Rough-lined/Ocean = wide-open; Lake = amoeba-shaped bunkering/Ocean = simple shapes; Lake = manicured/Ocean = wild & wooly).[/size]
[size=0pt]For Lake Merced, would love to see hole #4 reworked as it just doesn’t fit with the rest of the course. And would certainly love to see some significant tree removal and fairway widening to bring in lost angles and shots. [/size]