What five (5) golf courses would you restore and why ?

[Gene Greco]

Timber Point-The photo's in Wexler's book just look awesome. It looked like it was a beast! The Gibraltar hole alone would've been worth seeing.

The hole is still there and I believe is now part of the "Blue" 9.

Original plans hang on the wall in the bar.

$15 after 2pm

[TEPaul]

I can only think of one.

I'd restore TOC to the way it was in about 1847 before Alan Robertson and even before man-made architecture.

Can you imagine in a future British Open Tiger Woods playing one of those old 50-60 yard wide hole corridors one way while Ernie Els played it in the opposite direction at the same time?

I mean, come on, how cool would that be?

A whole championship tournament field playing the same hole corridors in opposite directions for four days?? The prospect of that is just too much for words!

Can't you just see a guy like Sabattini yelling at Woods; "Hey Tiger, I got to the green at least a second and a half before you did so it's my turn to play."

I can't stand it, that would be so cool,

[David Stamm]

Timber Point-The photo's in Wexler's book just look awesome. It looked like it was a beast! The Gibraltar hole alone would've been worth seeing.

The hole is still there and I believe is now part of the "Blue" 9.

Original plans hang on the wall in the bar.

$15 after 2pm

Wow, really Gene? I've got to get out and see that then.


$15. Gosh, I've got to get out of California! If the Gibraltar hole looks anything like the old photo then that alone makes the $15 worth while.

[TEPaul]

I'd also restore Stone Harbor to just the way it was the day it opened. A golf course that crazy should never have been touched. The fact it was is a crying shame.

[TEPaul]

I'd also restore Fernandina Beach Municipal but the fact is it doesn't need it because nothing has changed from the beginning, not even the maintenance practices.

[David Stamm]

I'd restore TOC to the way it was in about 1847 before Alan Robertson and even before man-made architecture.

 

Or, going back further Tom, can you imagine Tiger teeing it up within one club length of the hole? Wow!

[David Stamm]

How about St Andrews in Yonkers complete with the Apple Tree Gang.............That would've been interesting, America's first taste of golf.


Eastlake to when Bobby was a child.


The original Ocean course at Olympic, Willie Watson's masterpiece. I'm not sure if there was another arch whose very best course was lost.

[paul cowley]

I have two:

The original Seaside nine [Colt and Allison] at the Sea Island Resort.

Pebble Beach Golf Links on the Monterey Peninsula.

[David Stamm]

Pebble Beach Golf Links on the Monterey Peninsula.

Which one Paul, Neville and Grants or post Egan and Fowler?

[paul cowley]

David...neither.

I would restore it to the way it was on November 16, 1972

[Tom_Doak]

My earlier post on Bel Air was not based on any of the recent work, which I haven't seen.  I'm just going on the basis of the original photos of the holes, several of which are nothing like their former selves now.

I think I also meant to say Prince's, instead of Royal Cinque Ports, in my original post ... because I've heard Prince's was terrific before it was destroyed in the war, and I think it's a shame they went to a "commercial" 27-hole routing instead.  I don't know much about the changes at Deal over the years, other than the loss of "Sandy Parlor" which a lot of astute observers didn't like to begin with.

When I saw this thread again this morning, I had a much different take on it than four years ago.  My thought was that the best candidates for restoration are older clubs that don't host championships, so their members would be happy with a course that plays like it did for the best players in the 1920's.  And, we've been fortunate to DO restorations of this kind for a few of them:

1.  Yeamans Hall
2.  Camargo
3.  The Valley Club of Montecito
4.  Pasatiempo
5.  San Francisco Golf Club

[RJ_Daley]

Tom, would you call your work at YH a restore so much as a sympathetic remodel?  In that regard, I think you ought to add North Shore in Menasha to your list.  I think the work is spectacular.

[Tim Pitner]

Course:  Wellshire in Denver.

Why:  Because it's in my backyard.

[Sorry Doug, I missed your post].  

Tim, great minds think alike...

Indeed.

I played the back 9 of Wellshire this morning and the first thing I would do is address the pitiful state of the water hazards on #10 and #17--getting rid of them would be my first choice, but at least make them look presentable and more natural (in the case of #17).  Deepening the bunkers would also do wonders.  

[Tony_Muldoon]

*Princes by Campbell/Morrison - Sandwich: Try to recreate a course more in keeping with the original because the original sounds like it was a cracker.

Ciao

Sean do you really mean the 1956 version or the original version?

In case you do, here’s a map that was in the recent centenary booklet.  I understood it’s been changed for the better in the 70’s and recently.    Look at the ‘Lido’ type hole at the centre of the bottom map, today the whole left hand side of that fairway is dense rough.  I’ll have a good look next time I make it there.

[Lester George]

I would like to bring back the second Raynor course at the Greenbrier.  Photos of it are incredible.  Maybe some of his best work.  

Unfortunately, it was in the location of where both the Nicklaus and Cupp courses currently reside, hum.......

Lester

[Tony_Muldoon]

How about the Adington New? Darwin thought it Abercromby's best and you'd only have to knock down some of those houses. Oh well.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I would be interested in examining several of the courses at Bethpage State Park further to better understand their original design.  

Specifically, I hope Phil reads this and shares his knowledge.  The basis I have for comparison is an aerial dated 1935 in the clubhouse, and Bill Quirin's book "America's Linksland".  In it, I have read about reports of both the Red and Blue courses being excellent tests of golf.  Considering the great terrain,  the state of the current Blue course, which, IMO is unexciting nor inspiring to play at best, four courses may have been better than five.  

In addition, from the aerial, which I admit is limited in what it can convey, it appears there is more width in playing corridors, there are greater expanses of bunkers, and, more than likely, a greater use of angles in playing the course.  

Further, the original Blue course (part of today's Yellow) was reportedly tougher than the Red.  It also appears that the natural gully that runs through the Yellow first nine and several holes on today's Blue course was better utilized in the original routing.  

On the Red course, for one example, it appears that the 13th hole featured the sandy waste area cutting into the fairway from the right; thus, there were two ways to play the hole; lay up short or go left over several bunkers for a better angle of approach.  

[Tim Rooney]

Unfortunately,can't think more than the Trinity(3):   Yale(Full Restoration---Tees,Bunkers,Fairways with Firm Maintenance Commitment).Ekwanok('NEW' Back/Tee Installation 'Only'----This course is a 'Rembrandt').Kebo Valley(This tarnished 'Gem' is painfull visually when compared with the 30's/40's ,original, photographs.Twice(2x), one of Desert Island's/World's wealthiest families offered restoration funding;however, this was board denied, favoring the present,marginally maintained shell.This provincial attitude reinforces my family's decision departing N.England, (30)yrs ago, and returning to our Ohio roots.)                

[mark chalfant]

Philadelphia  Cricket  (AWT)
I think  Tillinghast's original was peppered with  several bold bunkering clusters/echelons. While such a restoration   may not garner  national attention ,it might  prove  instructive to    sme golden age clubs. It would certainly  excite   many  Tilinghast fans

2.  Canterbury
To ighlight Herbert Srongs  imagtion/flair and his  shaping  artistry

3. Westchester CC     Ken Dyes work  does not seem sympathetic to   Travis ;  tree management is also  needed

4. Blyhtefield, Culvr and Wkonda  (Langford& moreau)


5. Plum  Holow and Orchard Lake
two  Alson  designs on lovely land

[astavrides]

Course:  Wellshire in Denver.

Why:  Because it's in my backyard.

[Sorry Doug, I missed your post].  

Tim, great minds think alike...

Indeed.

I played the back 9 of Wellshire this morning and the first thing I would do is address the pitiful state of the water hazards on #10 and #17--getting rid of them would be my first choice, but at least make them look presentable and more natural (in the case of #17).  Deepening the bunkers would also do wonders.  

yeah, in what universe does #10 make any sense as a golf hole.  I think the best way to play it is drive down #1 fairway.

What don't you like about the water on #17?

[astavrides]

1. Longaberger
 2. Bay Harbor
 3. Waverly Woods
 4. Harbour Pointe-Not much of a redesign. I'd just demolish about 200 homes that line the fairways.
 5. The Links at Lighthouse Sound

All these courses are on great pieces of land.          
All could use a major re-do.

Is Art Hills a relative of yours by any chance?
A thread on courses that should be redone, rather than restored, could take up all the bandwidth of this site.

[Doug Wright]

Course:  Wellshire in Denver.

Why:  Because it's in my backyard.

[Sorry Doug, I missed your post].  

Tim, great minds think alike...

Indeed.

I played the back 9 of Wellshire this morning and the first thing I would do is address the pitiful state of the water hazards on #10 and #17--getting rid of them would be my first choice, but at least make them look presentable and more natural (in the case of #17).  Deepening the bunkers would also do wonders.  

yeah, in what universe does #10 make any sense as a golf hole.  I think the best way to play it is drive down #1 fairway.

What don't you like about the water on #17?

Tim/Alex,

#10 suffers from seepage from the adjacent reservoir so the "pond" isn't likely to go away; agree that it's an eyesore and results in a terrible hole. I concur with Tim that the "water feature" on 17 is bad--a totally contrived and ugly series of "cement ponds" (if you recall the Beverly Hillbillies). They should have used the $$ to do some basic work on the course instead.

Wellshire could easily be like Wilmington Municipal, a Ross restoration by Ron Prichard (see link to GCA course description below, and note in particular the restored bunkering). I have somewhere the Ross plans for Wellshire, and there are many great fairway bunkers that NLE (think, for example, one cut into the hillside on the right of #7 fairway). That plus some deepening/cleanup of the existing greenside bunkering and substantial tree removal would create a really fine municipal course. Not likely, unfortunately.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/wilmington1.html

[Dan Kelly]

Hazeltine. June 1970. Wild, fierce and capable of making professionals whine.

[Mike_Cirba]

Philadelphia  Cricket  (AWT)
I think  Tillinghast's original was peppered with  several bold bunkering clusters/echelons. While such a restoration   may not garner  national attention ,it might  prove  instructive to    sme golden age clubs. It would certainly  excite   many  Tilinghast fans

Mark,

Some of the old aerials show bunkering that had lots of vegetation present inside.  

Does anyone know if these were more like Merion's grasses, or more, I suspect based on the photos, like Oakmont's Church Pews?

[JMorgan]

Five Emmet courses I would restore to original states:

1. Meadowbrook Hunt
2. Huntington Crescent East* & West
3. MacGregor Links*
4. Northport
5. Tie: Queens Valley; original plan for Rockwood Hall 36

The Depression and outward expansion of NYC led to the early demise or redesign of most Emmet courses.

*extant courses, significantly altered fm original