John Huggan Reviews The Confidential Guide

[Tom_Doak]

Do we think that's really THE Chubby Chandler?  I have to say I somewhat doubt it.

I'm thinking it most likely is Chubby. I'm sure his clients didn't fare very well in the book. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chubby_Chandler

John, I was thinking you were surely wrong, because the only client of Mr. Chandler's [former client?] who does much work as an architect is Ernie Els, and the only course I've seen of Ernie's is in The Bahamas.  But, then I remembered his redesign work at Wentworth.  Perhaps Mr. Chandler wouldn't have liked that review!  Always better to attack the reviewer than mention what you're offended by.

[Ryan Coles]

Els split from ISM several years ago. Chubby's boy Westwood has been pretty scathing about Wentworth too so I doubt it on all fronts.

[John Kavanaugh]

John Huggan has a responsibility to check if Chubby is an imposter. Not even Ran allows people to pretend to be public figures.

[Adam Lawrence]

Darren Clarke has a couple of signature design deals on the go too, but nothing of any significance has been completed yet.

I've long been surprised that ISM hasn't set up a design operation along the lines of EGD, but have been told that Chubby isn't particularly interested.

[Adam Lawrence]

John Huggan has a responsibility to check if Chubby is an imposter. Not even Ran allows people to pretend to be public figures.

Possibly the Scotsman does but I can't see that it's John's problem.

[John Kavanaugh]

John Huggan has a responsibility to check if Chubby is an imposter. Not even Ran allows people to pretend to be public figures.

Possibly the Scotsman does but I can't see that it's John's problem.

Correct. Most publications review comments before publishing. That I know from experience.

[John Kavanaugh]

There are 113 hits on a search for Chubby Chandler on the Scotsman website. @Chubby6665 has 15,000 tweets (a verified acct). It is very likely Chubby reads and comments on the magazine.  The guy works the internet.

[Thomas Dai]

There are 113 hits on a search for Chubby Chandler on the Scotsman website. @Chubby6665 has 15,000 tweets (a verified acct). It is very likely Chubby reads and comments on the magazine.  The guy works the internet.

GCA lurker?!

Atb

[MClutterbuck]

I liked the article.

Re Norman and Doak being "rival architects". I don't see it.

Is there the slightest chance that an owner would interview both for a project? Maybe so, but there work is so different in almost all ways I don't see how they are rivals.

They already have - at least twice.

Chris:

Three times, actually ... for The National and for another new project in Australia, and for the Rio 2016 project.  Even so, I highly doubt Greg thinks of me as a rival architect, and I certainly don't think of him as one.  Whatever Greg does think [if he thinks of me at all!], I'm fairly certain he doesn't feel he needs Mark Pavy to defend him. 

However, Don's point doesn't really matter to this discussion.  The point is, either I'm allowed to print my opinions of other people's courses, or I'm not ... whether the other architect is dead or alive, or a rival or not.  It wouldn't make any sense that I was only allowed to print my honest opinions of SOME courses and was obliged to fudge others; if that was the rule it would be dishonest to write at all.

There are clearly some people like Mark who feel I shouldn't be writing at all.  I understood that when I embarked on the project again.  I just don't like it when people who don't know me at all assign motivations to my words that just aren't true.  My review of Doonbeg was not a personal "attack" on Greg Norman.

Four

[Duncan Cheslett]

I've long been surprised that ISM hasn't set up a design operation along the lines of EGD, but have been told that Chubby isn't particularly interested.

Chubby's been there, done it.  International Sports Management (Course Design) Ltd was set up in October 1995 but appears not to have been very active. The company's name was changed to The Champions Golf Club Ltd in 2006 and it was dissolved in February 2011.

When established back in 1995, ISM (Course Design) Ltd had two directors;

1.  Andrew Haydn Chandler

2. Ian Scott-Taylor


Three months later Chubby was the sole director.


https://www.duedil.com/company/03109305/the-champions-golf-club-limited


I wonder why Chubby is apparently not particularly interested in getting back into the golf course design business...




 

[Mark Pavy]

This is fascinating, sociologically speaking. Since the Golden Age, the world's population has quadrupled, the golf industry has grown exponentially in size and scope, golf course architecture has become almost wholly professionalized and institutionalized, and communications/media is global and instant and all-pervasive in ways undreamed of even 20 years ago, let alone 90. And yet, for all this momentus change, it  seems that now -- just as in the 1920s -- there is still a "100 Club" the rules the roost. Then as now, there is just a very small group of top-flight architects and wealthy clients and prominent private club members and influential writers/critics and famous and accomplished golfers who all know eachother and work with eachother and support/criticize eachother and influence and/or compete against eachother. Then as now, these 100 people (at most, and mostly men) dominate and shape the prevailing ethos and attitudes of an entire game, for an entire generation of golfers. That this was true in the 1920s isn't so surprising to me, but that it should still be true today is, as I say, fascinating.  

Peter

Interesting thoughts. You're probably correct at this point in time. The self perpetuating cycle of course architecture is a model that benefits the "100 club". Golf courses are forced into marketing strategies to give an indication of the quality/style/prestige of the course like:- 1. The name of the architect, 2. A rating from a magazine or so called reputable source and 3. A review from somebody whose opinion should mean something.

What the "100 club" don't realise is that last drinks are being served and the party is coming to an end. The present model increases the cost of golf and is largely not good for the the long term health of a great game.

Just imagine if there was a better way...... the 100 key opinion leaders might find out what their opinions are really worth when democratization occurs.

[Scott Macpherson]

I've long been surprised that ISM hasn't set up a design operation along the lines of EGD, but have been told that Chubby isn't particularly interested.

Chubby's been there, done it.  International Sports Management (Course Design) Ltd was set up in October 1995 but appears not to have been very active. The company's name was changed to The Champions Golf Club Ltd in 2006 and it was dissolved in February 2011.

When established back in 1995, ISM (Course Design) Ltd had two directors;

1.  Andrew Haydn Chandler

2. Ian Scott-Taylor


Three months later Chubby was the sole director.


https://www.duedil.com/company/03109305/the-champions-golf-club-limited


I wonder why Chubby is apparently not particularly interested in getting back into the golf course design business...




 

I designed the Colt Course at Close House for which Lee Westwood is the ambassador. I have briefly spoken with both Chubby Chandler and Lee about designing a course together. 2 years ago I don't think Chubby was too interested in Lee moving into golf course design as he thought the time it would take away from Lee would impact on his playing (earning) performance. Lee does have an interest in designing a golf course – an interest I think will grow over time. He would be selective about any project he took on, but I think he could make a positive contribution to any new design. I would certainly like to work with Lee on a design project. Chubby may be move happy about his stable of players collaborating with designers, other than him starting his own design practice.

Scott

PS- Well done to Lee for winning his second title in 2014 on Sunday.

[Will MacEwen]

"The review of the Greg Norman-designed Doonbeg in County Clare, Ireland concludes as follows: “In the end, it’s a beautiful place and full of thrills, but like the rest of Norman’s career, a bit haunted by the thought of what might have been.” Ouch"

Ouch is right!

Is that really necessary in a golf course review book?

It seems like the cheap joke to make.  Ripping a golf course is fine, but Norman's playing career seems irrelevant to his design work.  I have never heard golfers with better records than Norman make light of him.  Reminds me of the "man in the arena" quote by TR.

[Ryan Coles]

Agreed.

It was a gratuitous comment but no doubt a memorable one.

Greg Norman's Golf Guide 2015

Streamsong: 'like the rest of his career, Tom Doak plays second fiddle to Coore & Crenshaw......'

See, it's easy to be disparaging, no matter how successful the subject. The Norman comment and the Castle Course review really do stick out amongst the rest of the book.

[Tom_Doak]

Agreed.

It was a gratuitous comment but no doubt a memorable one.

Greg Norman's Golf Guide 2015

Streamsong: 'like the rest of his career, Tom Doak plays second fiddle to Coore & Crenshaw......'

See, it's easy to be disparaging, no matter how successful the subject. The Norman comment and the Castle Course review really do stick out amongst the rest of the book.

Just remember to hold Greg Norman to the same standard now that he'll be on TV regularly with no filter for his opinions and producers egging him on to be "controversial".

[Adrian_Stiff]

The problem with writing is that some peoples opinion of what is funny and what is rude often is the same piece of writing. Most Jokes are about someone's misfortune. Doak's comment is funny IMO. Greg Norman may find it rude or see the funny side of it. Someone like GN will understand journalism far more than the *normals* on here so may shrug as say ...fair comment in relation to either or both.

One of the funniest things I ever saw written was 20-25 years ago and was in a boxing magazine  a fight review by a chap called Jack Obermayer. His comment was something like " former super-middleweight (has not got any taller) Everett Martin, 235 droped a ten round decision to Michael Moorer 224 on all three cards "

A book of reviews with numbers and no biting comments would not be 'the confidential guide'. It is going to upset some people, maybe even TD could face a court case but it is what it is. The Castle Course comment I wonder if Tom might regret, I think it does him more harm than good and more likely to lose him a job than gain one but we all do silly things.

[Ryan Coles]

Taking a swipe at the successful or powerful is always seen as fair game. When the successful and powerful start taking swipes, people lose their sense of humour quickly. Thought DMK reacted perfectly, in public at least. Work hard in silence and let success make the noise springs to mind about him in recent years. Not sure whether Norman will see the funny side. Ouch from Huggan was about right.

[George Pazin]

You know the world is in bad shape when any criticism is questioned as an attack.

Almost makes me worry that Pete Dye is staying up nights worrying about my attacks on PDGC...

[JMEvensky]

Almost makes me worry that Pete Dye is staying up nights worrying about my attacks on PDGC...

Actually he called me and asked how to get in touch with that know-nothing prick in Pittsburgh. Were I you,I wouldn't expect an invite to the Dye family Christmas party this year.

[Will MacEwen]

.

[Paul Gray]

This is getting a little silly. Why has The Confidential Guide been so success? In fact, why has TD been so success?

[Peter Pallotta]

Almost makes me worry that Pete Dye is staying up nights worrying about my attacks on PDGC...

Actually he called me and asked how to get in touch with that know-nothing prick in Pittsburgh. Were I you,I wouldn't expect an invite to the Dye family Christmas party this year.

He's right, George. You picked the wrong prickly, thin-skinned architect to mess with! Mr. Dye is like the Sonny Corleone of designers: he's gonna come at you with everything he's got. (It's not personal, mind you, it's just business.) Moving forward, i think you need me as your Tom Hagen...

[George Pazin]

 

[Tom_Doak]

A book of reviews with numbers and no biting comments would not be 'the confidential guide'. It is going to upset some people, maybe even TD could face a court case but it is what it is. The Castle Course comment I wonder if Tom might regret, I think it does him more harm than good and more likely to lose him a job than gain one but we all do silly things.

Adrian:

It's funny, I get accused of writing something to gain work and then you point out that I might lose a job, both as a result of the same comment. 

In fact, the intent is neither -- I'm writing my reviews as a reviewer, not as an architect looking for work.  It's amazing to me that no one can take that at face value, and that everyone is always looking for ulterior motives.  I guess that's a sad reflection on the way of the world nowadays.  There have been a few attacks against me now cloaked as "defending" someone else; in fact, all parties are perfectly capable of defending themselves if they feel it is warranted.

I go back to Peter's comment about the 100 people.  Certainly 25 years ago, I wasn't one of them.  I don't know whether he meant to include me, or not -- I still think of myself as an outsider; at least I certainly don't get invited to the Group of 100 meetings

[George Pazin]

It's amazing to me that no one can take that at face value, and that everyone is always looking for ulterior motives.  I guess that's a sad reflection on the way of the world nowadays.  There have been a few attacks against me now cloaked as "defending" someone else; in fact, all parties are perfectly capable of defending themselves if they feel it is warranted.

I'm generally a cynic these days, but I think most will see your comment on Norman in the proper vein. To me, it conveys very clearly and concisely an idea that most who follow golf will understand.