[Bill_McBride]

Heather can be misery if you aren't having a good day.    I had a great driving day at New Zealand where there is heather both sides of many fairways, but my three fellow players spent most of the day looking for their tee shots and hacking them back into play.  It was too bad we weren't playing Wolf!

[Marc Haring]

I played Sunny Old maybe 20 years ago with a couple of greenkeeping colleagues. Two of us were half decent but the third was maybe 18 handicap but keen and this was his first experience of quality golf. At the end he said his wrists and hands were just starting to hurt too much from all the hacking in the heather. 

[Thomas Dai]

A course where gorse and heather are key features is Tadmarton Heath, a few miles north of Oxford - photo-tour - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,26579.0.html

This link will take you to a section within the clubs website all about heathland regeneration and gorse and heather etc -http://www.tadmartongolf.com/pages.php/page/16a37be2-4500-11e2-8f46-bc305bd9eec9/view.html

atb

[Paul Gray]

Rob,

I'm using my phone so will struggle to upload a picture but, just to pick one example, google Liphook Golf Club and have a look at the hole by hole tour. From memory, some of the pictures of the par 3s feature quite a bit of heather.

Thanks Paul, it had some good pictures. I see the difference. So at the risk looking like an idiot. What is the long grass called that I spent 10 days hacking my ball out of if it's not heather? Fescue?

Paul

Once you experience heather it is unmistakable.  Often times though heather infested by rough.  It can look awfully pretty with the brown or purple broken up with lighter colour grass, but the grass is very different.



Ciao

Mr Arble,

Think you meant to direct that to Rob but consider yourself forgiven!

As an aside, where's the picture from? Is that Liphook or New Zealand or neither?

Rob,

Nothing ignorant about asking for clarity. Without seeing what you were battling with it would be tough to say but did you hear any locals mentioning marram grass? Maybe try googling it to see what I mean.

[Rob Marshall]

http://www.lahinchgolf.com/golf-courses/old-course/old-course-hole-16/

He is a link to a few pictures from Lahinch. I would call the grass shown here as "heather". If not what us it?

[David_Tepper]

"I would call the grass shown here as "heather". If not what us it?"

Rob M. -

The grass is those pictures from Lahnich is not "heather," as heather is not a grass! Sean Arble's picture above clearly shows what heather looks like.

My guess is the grass throughout the rough at Lahinch is a combination of fescue and poa. but I would be happy to defer to a more epxert opinion on that.

DT  

[Paul Gray]

Rob,

From what I see, mostly fescue and some marram. Heather is a plant, rather than a grass.

Not knowing Lahinch it would probably be best if someone more expert than I have the final word on what is or isn't growing there.

[Rob Marshall]

Paul and Dave,
Thanks, after seeing the pictures posted of heather I figured it was probably fescue. When I was in Ireland and NI I played RCD, Dunluce and Valley, Portstewart, Island, Ballybunion, Portsalon,Rosepenna, Lahinch, and Ballylifin. To my eye there was nothing that resembled the picture posted of heather at any of the courses I played. My guess would be it was all fescue.

[Sean_A]

Paul

The photo is from New Zealand, which does have a fair amount of heather.

A question for the agroheads; why don't we see much heather on links?  I have seen spits of heather in spots (18th at Pennard for instance), but never a consistent covering of the evil weed. 

Ciao

[Paul Gray]

Paul and Dave,
Thanks, after seeing the pictures posted of heather I figured it was probably fescue. When I was in Ireland and NI I played RCD, Dunluce and Valley, Portstewart, Island, Ballybunion, Portsalon,Rosepenna, Lahinch, and Ballylifin. To my eye there was nothing that resembled the picture posted of heather at any of the courses I played. My guess would be it was all fescue.

We won't generally see much heather on a links. We're getting some back at Hayling but that's another story. Actually, the sandy soil, if the heather can survive, should keep it pretty low in nutrients, meaning it's good for golf.

[Marc Haring]

Paul

The photo is from New Zealand, which does have a fair amount of heather.

A question for the agroheads; why don't we see much heather on links?  I have seen spits of heather in spots (18th at Pennard for instance), but never a consistent covering of the evil weed. 

Ciao

Links soils are actually normally quite alkaline due to the sea shell component (calcium carbonate) and as heathers prefer acid soils, there's your answer.

[Paul Gray]

Paul

The photo is from New Zealand, which does have a fair amount of heather.

A question for the agroheads; why don't we see much heather on links?  I have seen spits of heather in spots (18th at Pennard for instance), but never a consistent covering of the evil weed. 

Ciao

On the issue of New Zealand, I seem to recall the heather being VERY ball hugging ten years or so ago. Haven't been back since. Is it much the same? I only ask because Ryan Coles was asking earlier about examples of courses which have failed to crop the growth.

[Ryan Coles]

It was fine end of last summer at NZ. Plentiful, as most seem to be nowadays, by fine.

Most dense/difficult heather I've encountered was a month or so back at Sunningdale. Even then it wasn't a lost ball. Some lies were a SW out, others you were still able to get to the green.

I don't think heather is ever the problem only perhaps the lack of fairway in the middle.

[Sean_A]

Paul

The photo is from New Zealand, which does have a fair amount of heather.

A question for the agroheads; why don't we see much heather on links?  I have seen spits of heather in spots (18th at Pennard for instance), but never a consistent covering of the evil weed. 

Ciao

On the issue of New Zealand, I seem to recall the heather being VERY ball hugging ten years or so ago. Haven't been back since. Is it much the same? I only ask because Ryan Coles was asking earlier about examples of courses which have failed to crop the growth.

I don't think NZ has a problem with heather.  Its more an issue of fairway with...its one of the tightest heathland courses around London.  There is also an issue with trees.  If in the heather, the penalty is severe enough.  There should be no need to also have to combat trees...that double penalty is very harsh considering how one must come down sharp on the ball to elevate it out of heather.  For me, the design deserves better presentation.

Marc - cheers.

Ciao   

[Ryan Coles]

I think the trees add to most of the heathland courses. If it was mismanaged, I think the trees would impinge on the heather but that doesn't seem to be the case at most.

In NZ's case, I think the narrowness is sufficiently mitigated by the length of the course. Lots of the holes aren't a driver from the tee for most other than perhaps the elderly. The fairways aren't that narrow for a 3 wood /rescue/2 iron. There are some tight spots, but this is the case on lots of 6000 yard courses on a small acreage.

[Thomas Dai]

I understood thorough tree management was needed to ensure quality heather as overhanging trees adversely effect heather.
atb

[Marc Haring]

I understood thorough tree management was needed to ensure quality heather as overhanging trees adversely effect heather.
atb

Very true Thomas. In fact trees adversely effect pretty much all species. Bio diversity is far greater on treeless sites.
At Camberley Heath when I was there, the local authority slapped a tree preservation order on the whole site but even they recognised it was not for conservation but to stop the developers getting any ideas as the debenture holders were very keen to sell up at the time.

[Paul Gray]

I understood thorough tree management was needed to ensure quality heather as overhanging trees adversely effect heather.
atb

Very true Thomas. In fact trees adversely effect pretty much all species. Bio diversity is far greater on treeless sites.
At Camberley Heath when I was there, the local authority slapped a tree preservation order on the whole site but even they recognised it was not for conservation but to stop the developers getting any ideas as the debenture holders were very keen to sell up at the time.

Fortunately, Frank Pont is currently doing restorative work at Camberley and a number of trees are coming out, not that Camberley had/has become excessively overgrown.

[Thomas Dai]

Some may not, but I quite like gorse (as well as heather).

Okay, it may be a bit prickly to the touch, but it's evergreen and the fact that it doesn't grow very high means that it can be used as a visual and a physical hazard but without being excessive high unlike trees. It also acts as a nice low level windbreak, where for example, a tee can be set into the gorse so the tee shot may seem 'calm' but further out in the fairway the wind can be blowing heavily, which can/should be thought provoking to the player.

Atb

[Ryan Coles]

Some may not, but I quite like gorse (as well as heather).

Okay, it may be a bit prickly to the touch, but it's evergreen and the fact that it doesn't grow very high means that it can be used as a visual and a physical hazard but without being excessive high unlike trees. It also acts as a nice low level windbreak, where for example, a tee can be set into the gorse so the tee shot may seem 'calm' but further out in the fairway the wind can be blowing heavily, which can/should be thought provoking to the player.

Atb

Go on then, some examples of courses Thomas.

Dornoch looks lovely but it's not really in the playing area. Ganton perhaps? I'm struggling to think of a course greatly enhanced by gorse?

[David_Tepper]

"Dornoch looks lovely but it's not really in the playing area."

Ryan C. -

Are you sure about that?

DT

[Ryan Coles]

I don't bother looking for the ball, so yes.

[Thomas Dai]

"Dornoch looks lovely but it's not really in the playing area."
Ryan C. -
Are you sure about that?
DT

My reaction as well David!

As to inlanders, for example, both the Green and the Red at Frilford plus the likes of Tadmarton, Cleeve, Kington and Ludlow have it and some examples from north of the border would include Royal Aberdeen, where it cost Greg Norman a Senior Open plus Golspie and Tain. See also photo posted above of Ernie Els at Troon, where I think Tiger enjoyed some time in the company of the gorse. There's some place called The Old Course that has quite a bit of it too. Some may disagree, but I would suggest they are all enhanced by having it.

atb

[Paul Gray]

"Dornoch looks lovely but it's not really in the playing area."
Ryan C. -
Are you sure about that?
DT

My reaction as well David!

As to inlanders, for example, both the Green and the Red at Frilford plus the likes of Tadmarton, Cleeve, Kington and Ludlow have it and some examples from north of the border would include Royal Aberdeen, where it cost Greg Norman a Senior Open plus Golspie and Tain. See also photo posted above of Ernie Els at Troon, where I think Tiger enjoyed some time in the company of the gorse. There's some place called The Old Course that has quite a bit of it too. Some may disagree, but I would suggest they are all enhanced by having it.

atb

I agree.

Hayling actually utilises it a few times to prevent the player from taking too big a short cut without fear of extreme penalty.

[Duncan Cheslett]

I'm struggling to think of a course greatly enhanced by gorse

Bull Bay?

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