Gorse and heather are just another form of thick rough......

[Paul Gray]

Gorse's botanical name is ulex europaeus which may give an indication as to it's origin, i.e. Europe. I always thought it was indigenous to the UK and Wikipedia has it as such.

I am in agreement though, it is as penal as water as is maybe rhododendrons and laurel

Heather though, can and perhaps should be maintained as a playable hazard. I've even seen it growing on the fairways of some golf courses so it can be quite happy being mown down.

I believe, and I stand to be corrected on this, that ball stealing heather is often a result of it being treated too kindly. If managed properly, and by that I mean treating it mean, it can be a perfectly good hazard which you can find a ball in the majority of the time.

[Thomas Dai]

Gorse's botanical name is ulex europaeus which may give an indication as to it's origin, i.e. Europe. I always thought it was indigenous to the UK and Wikipedia has it as such.
I am in agreement though, it is as penal as water as is maybe rhododendrons and laurel
Heather though, can and perhaps should be maintained as a playable hazard. I've even seen it growing on the fairways of some golf courses so it can be quite happy being mown down.

I believe, and I stand to be corrected on this, that ball stealing heather is often a result of it being treated too kindly. If managed properly, and by that I mean treating it mean, it can be a perfectly good hazard which you can find a ball in the majority of the time.

I've known heather to be mowed and recover okay, but in the same way that there are 'tree huggers' at some clubs who don't want any tree work done there are also 'heather huggers'.........which kinda fits in with the point made above. Not sure about 'gorse huggers' - ouch! - there are some who don't like gorse work done, although I've seen gorse 'topped' successfully, but areas of gorse are frequently areas of rabbit infestation, which may then present other issues. Gorgeous when it's in it's yellowy bloom though, the bank/ridge at Dornoch being one example.

Atb

[Sven Nilsen]

Maybe we should just list out everywhere you could lose a golf ball.  Water, gorse, heather, trees, holes in the ground, ball-stealing crows, etc.

The real question is the penalty suffered, whether due to the marking of a hazard or by local rule.  Stroke and distance is going to be worse than a lateral drop just about every time.

For every day play, often knowing the ball is gone is better than having to spend an eternity stomping through high grass (of whatever kind) trying to find it.

Sven

[Daniel Jones]

For every day play, often knowing the ball is gone is better than having to spend an eternity stomping through high grass (of whatever kind) trying to find it.

Sven

Agree 100%. I'd rather know straight away that the ball is lost, be it to OB, water, etc., than wander around in search while that sense of dread builds with each passing step.

[Thomas Dai]

For every day play, often knowing the ball is gone is better than having to spend an eternity stomping through high grass (of whatever kind) trying to find it.
Sven

Agree 100%. I'd rather know straight away that the ball is lost, be it to OB, water, etc., than wander around in search while that sense of dread builds with each passing step.

To play Devils Advocate for a moment, it could be argued that "that sense of dread with each passing step" is an important element in the mental aspect of golf.

atb

[Sean_A]

Gorse?  Don't much care for it nor the type of grass which is propagated by the chemicals released by gorse...all in all, bad news. Still, there is a place for gorse, just not as much as many courses give it. 

Heather?  Seems strange to like heathland golf, but not like heather.  If the heather is controlled and just as importantly, if fairways are wide enough, heather is a fine type of penal rough.  Frankly, I would like to see a lot more heather on the heathland courses. 

Ciao

[Paul Gray]

Gorse?  Don't much care for it nor the type of grass which is propagated by the chemicals released by gorse...all in all, bad news. Still, there is a place for gorse, just not as much as many courses give it. 

Heather?  Seems strange to like heathland golf, but not like heather.  If the heather is controlled and just as importantly, if fairways are wide enough, heather is a fine type of penal rough.  Frankly, I would like to see a lot more heather on the heathland courses. 

Ciao

Regarding heather, that's very much my own take on it. Control it correctly and you have an excellent hazard but mistakenly think it needs endless encouragement and you have a problem. The difference is that you go from having something which cequates to a good penalty to something which simply introduces a hide and seek contest.

[Ryan Coles]

Which courses have over encouraged heather?

[Paul Gray]

Which courses have over encouraged heather?

Not controlled would have been a better terminology. Recognising when to cut/burn is really the point. They've had the hang of it up in The Highlands for quite a few hundred years.

Down at Hayling I'm pleased to report, although it doesn't make locating a ball much easier, that the same policy, courtesy of Nature England, is applied to the gorse. Well, that and some kids deciding to have a fire on the golf course this summer just gone. 

[Rob Marshall]

Which courses have over encouraged heather?

I would say Royal Portrush. It was brutal when I was there in 2013. The "heather" it's self wouldn't have been too bad but it had a lot of green leafy low growing vegetation mixed in that made it almost impossible to find a ball.

[Rob Marshall]

Which courses have over encouraged heather?

[Ryan Coles]

Which courses have over encouraged heather?

I would say Royal Portrush. It was brutal when I was there in 2013. The "heather" it's self wouldn't have been too bad but it had a lot of green leafy low growing vegetation mixed in that made it almost impossible to find a ball.

Are you sure it was heather?
http://royalportrushgolfclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/20130929-Royal-Portrush-Management-Plan-V2-Re-issued.pdf

[Tom_Doak]

Which courses have over encouraged heather?

I would say Royal Portrush. It was brutal when I was there in 2013. The "heather" it's self wouldn't have been too bad but it had a lot of green leafy low growing vegetation mixed in that made it almost impossible to find a ball.

Rob:

I think you are using the term "heather" in the incorrect American sense [long grass].  Actual heather is a woody ground cover or shrub that flowers purple in late summer.

[Rob Marshall]

Which courses have over encouraged heather?

I would say Royal Portrush. It was brutal when I was there in 2013. The "heather" it's self wouldn't have been too bad but it had a lot of green leafy low growing vegetation mixed in that made it almost impossible to find a ball.

Are you sure it was heather?
http://royalportrushgolfclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/20130929-Royal-Portrush-Management-Plan-V2-Re-issued.pdf

It was in the heather. It may be what they refer to as "scrub".  I was there a few months before that report was written.

[Rob Marshall]

Which courses have over encouraged heather?

I would say Royal Portrush. It was brutal when I was there in 2013. The "heather" it's self wouldn't have been too bad but it had a lot of green leafy low growing vegetation mixed in that made it almost impossible to find a ball.

Rob:

I think you are using the term "heather" in the incorrect American sense [long grass].  Actual heather is a woody ground cover or shrub that flowers purple in late summer.

Ahhh thanks Tom. Learned something.

[Paul Gray]

Rob,

I'm using my phone so will struggle to upload a picture but, just to pick one example, google Liphook Golf Club and have a look at the hole by hole tour. From memory, some of the pictures of the par 3s feature quite a bit of heather.

[Marc Haring]

I think pretty much all heathland golf courses these days are actively trying to encourage heather as much as possible as it is environmentally very important as well as important from a visual, strategic and even a heritage perspective.
Paradoxically though, correct long term management of heather requires a lowering of the nutrient status of the soil so as to discourage the natural encroachment from grasses. This will include scarifying intensively and collecting the litter, cutting and collecting and sometimes even stripping off layers of heather turf. (The seed bank underneath soon sends up new shoots of heather). With this treatment, the heather should become sparser, less thick and therefore easier from a playability standpoint.
Having said that, aren’t heathland courses often thought to be best played in the winter, spring and late autumn before the heath becomes too impenetrable?

[Paul Gray]

I think pretty much all heathland golf courses these days are actively trying to encourage heather as much as possible as it is environmentally very important as well as important from a visual, strategic and even a heritage perspective.
Paradoxically though, correct long term management of heather requires a lowering of the nutrient status of the soil so as to discourage the natural encroachment from grasses. This will include scarifying intensively and collecting the litter, cutting and collecting and sometimes even stripping off layers of heather turf. (The seed bank underneath soon sends up new shoots of heather). With this treatment, the heather should become sparser, less thick and therefore easier from a playability standpoint.
Having said that, aren’t heathland courses often thought to be best played in the winter, spring and late autumn before the heath becomes too impenetrable?

Bingo.

[Ryan Coles]

I still don't know of any heathland course that has over encouraged it.

Too much heather is a problem in the same way that having too much money is.

[Marc Haring]

Gorse?  Don't much care for it nor the type of grass which is propagated by the chemicals released by gorse...all in all, bad news. Still, there is a place for gorse, just not as much as many courses give it. 

Heather?  Seems strange to like heathland golf, but not like heather.  If the heather is controlled and just as importantly, if fairways are wide enough, heather is a fine type of penal rough.  Frankly, I would like to see a lot more heather on the heathland courses. 

Ciao

Basically, agree with all of this.

Gorse looks nice but should only be there way into the background to provide texture and colour - I don't believe it provides good golf to have it be part of the challenge.

At Camberley Heath back in the day ((early 1990's) we had plenty of dwarf gorse (ulex minor). Only grew to about a foot so was really quite good in the rough areas. Looked the part but you could find and play your ball. Think it is quite picky as to the soil type etc though.

[Paul Gray]

I still don't know of any heathland course that has over encouraged it.

Too much heather is a problem in the same way that having too much money is.

Ryan,

Essentially any club that haven't a) got the correct equipment/man power to scarify and b) any club which has allowed nutrients to impose on the course.

Liphook was getting a bit excessive last time I was there but that was quite some time ago and the bloom was in full effect so wouldn't want to go out on a limb and suggest malpractice.

Your 'too much money' analogy is not actually a bad one.

[Ryan Coles]

Gorse and heather really shouldn't be grouped together IMO.

Gorse conjures up memories of the Struie Course at Dornoch - misery. Heather I absolutely love lining the fairways. Eye candy for sure, but I've not played any where you'd lose your ball if you watch with a bit of care.

[Doug Siebert]

The main difference between gorse and water is that if properly managed, gorse can provide the strategic aspect without being overly penal.  No one has a water hazard the size of a bathtub, but you can have a gorse bush that size.  When it is flowering you'll see it out there and want to avoid it, but actually hitting into it isn't likely.  You can get it in small doses if you want, just like you can get bunkers in small doses with pot bunkers.

Agreed that if you let the gorse go wild and line the entire fairway it is no better than having a swamp running down the whole fairway or thick forest or waist high grass.  Might as well make it OB or play it as a lateral hazard because ain't no one finding their ball in that much gorse, or playing it even if they do.

[Rob Marshall]

Rob,

I'm using my phone so will struggle to upload a picture but, just to pick one example, google Liphook Golf Club and have a look at the hole by hole tour. From memory, some of the pictures of the par 3s feature quite a bit of heather.

Thanks Paul, it had some good pictures. I see the difference. So at the risk looking like an idiot. What is the long grass called that I spent 10 days hacking my ball out of if it's not heather? Fescue?

[Sean_A]

Rob,

I'm using my phone so will struggle to upload a picture but, just to pick one example, google Liphook Golf Club and have a look at the hole by hole tour. From memory, some of the pictures of the par 3s feature quite a bit of heather.

Thanks Paul, it had some good pictures. I see the difference. So at the risk looking like an idiot. What is the long grass called that I spent 10 days hacking my ball out of if it's not heather? Fescue?

Paul

Once you experience heather it is unmistakable.  Often times though heather infested by rough.  It can look awfully pretty with the brown or purple broken up with lighter colour grass, but the grass is very different.



Ciao