SALE! - Tillinghast Templates - $35.00@

[Jim_Kennedy]

Am I reading this correctly - did AWT publish a catalogue of his green designs from which a club (or anyone thinking about building a course)  could order the plasticine models of their choice for $35.00 @? 

[Sven Nilsen]

Jim:

Curious as to the date of the ad.  Was this by any chance during the '30's?

Sven

[DMoriarty]

When I read the Subject Line I thought Phil and and Ian were trying to unload some artwork.

[Jim_Kennedy]

When I read the Subject Line I thought Phil and and Ian were trying to unload some artwork.

Not quite. 

Sven,
1922 Golfer's Magazine - April

[Tim_Cronin]

I'd love to find the catalog.

[Jim_Kennedy]

I'd love to find the catalog.

That would be cool. Wonder if the AWTS has one?

[Alex Lagowitz]

This ad is for the course he built for Essex County CC in NJ.  The picture is of the old 11th green, a short (maybe 130 yard) par 3 that played downhill.  This course was built around 1916-8 I think.

[RJ_Daley]

Do we know specifically which architect first used a pliesticine model medium?   I thought it was Bendelow.  But without looking it up, I also thought Dr. Mac also at least referred to them in "Spirit..."

[HarryBrinkerhoffDoyleIV_aka_Barry]

.

[DMoriarty]

I especially enjoyed the chapter on the villains career.

Let's see . . . HBDoyleIV . . . as in Barry Doyle?  You are the lowlife creep who sent me the libelous threats offline, right?  

No doubt the above post is supposed to be yet another shot at me, but it is probably a bit too esoteric for those of us unfamiliar with the slanderous gossip passed around the Dismal sewing circle fire pit.

You dismal creeps just don't know when to quit, do you?  

[Tom_Doak]

Am I reading this correctly - did AWT publish a catalogue of his green designs from which a club (or anyone thinking about building a course)  could order the plasticine models of their choice for $35.00 @? 

This right here is exactly what the Chinese need.

[Jim_Kennedy]

I wonder if AWT ever sold any of the models - and to who?

[Jeff_Brauer]

The idea has been floated a few other times.  A now big time course builder told me that as a youngster working for another contractor, but still hoping to be an architect (looks silly now....) he had taken out an ad with the idea selling green details to clubs to save the cost of an architect.  Just plug the plan you wanted into your site.  

With CAD, it would be easy for any architect to put a collection of past green plans up for sale.  With Google and CAD, it might not even be that hard to be an architect from a distance, and slightly tailor those plans to fit a site.

However, it would take one heck of a disclaimer to assure that if it failed for some reason, the Owner couldn't track you down to your little post office box and sue you for bad design.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Do we know specifically which architect first used a pliesticine model medium?   I thought it was Bendelow.  But without looking it up, I also thought Dr. Mac also at least referred to them in "Spirit..."

He used one at Alwoodey in 1907 to construct the 14th green, and he felt he was the first architect to do it.

I don't think he ever tried to sell them though.    

[DMoriarty]

Do we know specifically which architect first used a pliesticine model medium?   I thought it was Bendelow.  But without looking it up, I also thought Dr. Mac also at least referred to them in "Spirit..."

He used one at Alwoodey in 1907 to construct the 14th green, and he felt he was the first architect to do it.

I don't think he ever tried to sell them though.    

CBM wrote of having one made at NGLA at about the same time, but I am not sure when the NGLA model was actually created.  (It is amazing though.)

[Anthony Gholz]

Dan:

Golf illustrated August 1914 has photos of a full model of the Cape Hole at the National.  I've seen many of them in GI about that time.  Someone with skills could copy and paste them here.

To

[DMoriarty]

Anthony,

Here is the Cape model from the GI series (Sahara, Redan, Alps, Cape). The NGLA models came from a giant model of the entire course (hanging on the wall of the shop, or at least it was about a decade ago.) If I recall correctly in 1907 CBM mentioned that he would have the model built to use when constructing the course.



There is also a complete model of the Lido which was used in construction, a photo of which was published in a magazine (GI I think) and it is somewhere int he back threads.
-David

[Anthony Gholz]

Thanks Dan:

That's exactly what I was referring to.  Ron Whitten said a few years back that he couldn't find the model(s) at the National when he was researching something and I assume they gave him an all access pass.  If still around they would deserve a book of their own.  Did George Bahto say anything on this site, or elsewhere?

Tony

[Sven Nilsen]

Back to the original post, I find this almost Sear's catalog style of design fascinating.  It doesn't really make sense to buy a complete set of plans, as each plot of land is going to be different.  But it would be practical to replicate certain greens.  Tillie could have even included descriptions indicating what types or lengths of holes each different green model would work with.

The timing is fairly interesting as well, as there were still a large number of small town courses being built in the '20's, probably his target market.  There were also a large number of courses converting from sand to grass greens around this time.

In any case, an interesting wrinkle in the greater story, one that paints AWT as a bit of an opportunist.

Sven

[Jim_Kennedy]

Sven,
He was on a 'rol' in 1922, and magazine articles were proclaiming him the "Dean of American born architects", so it isn't hard to see why he thought it the right time to cash in on his popularity.

What makes me chuckle is here's Tilly selling templates while he's also writing/jabbing at CBM for his use of them.  Tsk tsk.

[DMoriarty]

Thanks Dan:

That's exactly what I was referring to.  Ron Whitten said a few years back that he couldn't find the model(s) at the National when he was researching something and I assume they gave him an all access pass.  If still around they would deserve a book of their own.  Did George Bahto say anything on this site, or elsewhere?

Tony

Tony,
I'm David, not Dan. But no worries, I've certainly been called worse around here.  

As of about 10 years ago the model was hanging in the maintenance shop at NGLA.  It was not "models" but rather one gigantic color model of the entire course.  My guess is it still there or somewhere else at NGLA.  Below is a link to a GI July 1915 GI article with a two page photo of the same type of model for the Lido.

http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/GolfIllustrated/1915/gi34k.pdf
___________________________________________________________

Jim and Sven,   At some point (probably the point where Raynor started bringing in a lot of work) it became a somewhat common for architects to take shots at templates, but it seems to me that they were all using them to some extent.  Still though,  it is interesting to think that in 1922 AWT thought greens could be built to predetermined specs.   Although I guess we should remember that CBM supposedly had survey data from many of the greens he considered great from abroad, and that he supposedly used those as models.