Pebble loses tree on 18th fairway

[Joe_Tucholski]

The storm in CA took out a tree on the 18th fairway at Pebble.  Should the resort replace it?  Will the resort replace it?

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/12017366/pebble-beach-loses-iconic-cypress-tree-storm

[Daniel Jones]

Crazy weather there the last 2 days. From a playability standpoint, I think the other tree is the one that poses the bigger challenge. I learned it the hard way 2 years ago when I pushed a 3-wood into it, never to be seen again. There's a brand new ProV for someone in the event that one goes down too...

[mike_beene]

Those trees on 18 at Pebble are unnecessary and add a clown's mouth element of luck to a hole that technology actually helps.

[Matthew Essig]

First, the Eisenhower tree.... Now one of the cypress trees on 18 at Pebble...

I think the Golf Gods are trying to tell us something...

[Mark McKeever]

I'm sure Pebble can afford a new one with the hundreds of dollars they get from every corporate clown that steps on the first tee.

[Paul Jones]

I remember reading an article on how they had to replant those trees a decade ago - it was an astonishing amount of money and effort.  I will see if I can find that article.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Paul, the linked article does say they replaced the trees in the fairway in 2004.  Also read on here that much earlier there were three trees in the fairway.  That being said I would guess the articles you remember were about the large greenside tree.  I believe that tree was last replaced in 2007.

Mark I agree the resort does have enough money to replace it.  I also believe they will replace the tree.  However I'm not sure what most of your comment adds.  Maybe trying to get at the topic of expensive public courses and the distaste people have for them?  Similarly people have distaste for expensive/exclusive courses.  Personally I prefer expensive public.  I've played Pebble but never played a private course in PA.

Matthew TPC Sawgrass also lost a somewhat iconic tree this year on the 6th tee.

I guess I'll take the opposite view of mike and say I'm ok with the trees.  If it was a centerline bunker it would be lauded for the strategic placement.  The hole is a reachable par 5 for many.  While there is water left and OB right the length of the hole needs something to prevent everyone from ripping it and going at it in two.  The bunkers would be flown by big hitters but the trees put something in the mind of bombers.  The short hitters may complain they get blocked out by the trees.  Well I guess the hazard works for all types of players.  Don't get me wrong I don't want every course throwing a tree in the middle of a fairway.  It won't work on every hole but I think it does at the 18th at Pebble.

I'm not sure if both trees are needed or if one would suffice.

[Charlie Ray]

I guess I'll take the opposite view of mike and say I'm ok with the trees.  If it was a centerline bunker it would be lauded for the strategic placement.  The hole is a reachable par 5 for many.  While there is water left and OB right the length of the hole needs something to prevent everyone from ripping it and going at it in two.  The bunkers would be flown by big hitters but the trees put something in the mind of bombers.  The short hitters may complain they get blocked out by the trees.  Well I guess the hazard works for all types of players.  Don't get me wrong I don't want every course throwing a tree in the middle of a fairway.  It won't work on every hole but I think it does at the 18th at Pebble.

Wonderfully said by Joe, especially the reference to the centerline bunker.  The tree(s) do provide an element of strategy to the hole that would be less impactful if it was a bunker.

[Sven Nilsen]

Not sure when this photo was taken, but it gives a bit of historical perspective:

[Bob_Huntley]

Those trees on 18 at Pebble are unnecessary and add a clown's mouth element of luck to a hole that technology actually helps.

I disagree. Without them you have but one bunker to catch the wayward shot off the tee. Forget the pros and limber collegiate players and you have something that ninety percent of the playing public will find as a genuine hazard.

Bob

[JESII]

Please reace it with something 50 yards further on and lose the one remaining in 3 shot territory...

[Rick Shefchik]

I'd prefer a centerline bunker. It would provide the same strategy off the tee, but offer more recovery options.

[JESII]

Seriously? What are the options from a bunker?

[Charlie Ray]

How would a bunker add more opportunities to recover?  And as Joe points out a tree(s) and a bunker do not provide the same strategy off the tee.  If a player lays up short of a bunker an average player will hit over it.  If the same player is confronted with a tree, he must go left, right, under or over the top;;;  thus how does a centerline bunker produce more options on the second shot?

[Rick Shefchik]

Depends on the lie, doesn't it? You might have a full hybrid that could get you close to the green. You might have to pitch out sideways. You might be able to get halfway to the green with a mid-iron. Having played the hole, I know that if those trees are between you and the green, you're not likely to have any chance to hit a long shot toward the green, and a pitch to one side or the other is pretty likely.

The character of the course is links golf. Two trees in the middle of the fairway never made sense to me, but a centerline bunker does.

[Steve Okula]

  While there is water left and OB right the length of the hole needs something to prevent everyone from ripping it and going at it in two. 

Why? Why should two long, straight shots not be rewarded?

[Bob_Huntley]

Depends on the lie, doesn't it? You might have a full hybrid that could get you close to the green. You might have to pitch out sideways. You might be able to get halfway to the green with a mid-iron. Having played the hole, I know that if those trees are between you and the green, you're not likely to have any chance to hit a long shot toward the green, and a pitch to one side or the other is pretty likely.

The character of the course is links golf. Two trees in the middle of the fairway never made sense to me, but a centerline bunker does.

Who said Pebble was a links course? Some chaps think there are but four links courses in America and Pebble is not one of them.

http://www.golfvacationinsider.com/usa/links-golf-vacations-5479

BOB

[Jon McSweeny]

Why? Why should two long, straight shots not be rewarded?

If the trees were removed from the hole, you wouldn't need to hit particularly straight shots to get their in two. The fairway is 40 yards wide at the trees and the big hitter will be past the bunker where he would then have nearly 70 yards to land his tee shot and still have a reasonable looking approach.

If the tree fronting the green was removed, a second shot that landed right of the fairway (and thus well clear of the water) would still give someone a relatively easy third. With that tree in place, the second shot becomes a challenging shot to execute. In my (very) limited experience, a challenging second shot on a par 5 is one of the least likely shots one will find on a golf course.

Without the trees any two moderately competent shots will give someone a good birdie chance. With the trees, the tee and approach shots must be hit with some degree of precision.

[Rick Shefchik]

Depends on the lie, doesn't it? You might have a full hybrid that could get you close to the green. You might have to pitch out sideways. You might be able to get halfway to the green with a mid-iron. Having played the hole, I know that if those trees are between you and the green, you're not likely to have any chance to hit a long shot toward the green, and a pitch to one side or the other is pretty likely.

The character of the course is links golf. Two trees in the middle of the fairway never made sense to me, but a centerline bunker does.

Who said Pebble was a links course? Some chaps think there are but four links courses in America and Pebble is not one of them.

http://www.golfvacationinsider.com/usa/links-golf-vacations-5479

BOB

Bob, I was careful not to say it was a links course. I said it has a links character -- much moreso, to me, than a wooded inland course. I think bunkers fit the style of the course better than trees.

[Bob_Huntley]

Depends on the lie, doesn't it? You might have a full hybrid that could get you close to the green. You might have to pitch out sideways. You might be able to get halfway to the green with a mid-iron. Having played the hole, I know that if those trees are between you and the green, you're not likely to have any chance to hit a long shot toward the green, and a pitch to one side or the other is pretty likely.

The character of the course is links golf. Two trees in the middle of the fairway never made sense to me, but a centerline bunker does.

Who said Pebble was a links course? Some chaps think there are but four links courses in America and Pebble is not one of them.

I stand corrected on the 'Links' but I still think the tree has its rightful place there.

Bob

http://www.golfvacationinsider.com/usa/links-golf-vacations-5479

BOB

Bob, I was careful not to say it was a links course. I said it has a links character -- much moreso, to me, than a wooded inland course. I think bunkers fit the style of the course better than trees.

[mike_beene]

The Pacific Ocean is all the hole needs.Put a few centerline bunkers way out there if you must. I don't see the best players consistently getting on this green in two.

[Steve Okula]

Why? Why should two long, straight shots not be rewarded?

If the trees were removed from the hole, you wouldn't need to hit particularly straight shots to get their in two. The fairway is 40 yards wide at the trees and the big hitter will be past the bunker where he would then have nearly 70 yards to land his tee shot and still have a reasonable looking approach.

If the tree fronting the green was removed, a second shot that landed right of the fairway (and thus well clear of the water) would still give someone a relatively easy third. With that tree in place, the second shot becomes a challenging shot to execute. In my (very) limited experience, a challenging second shot on a par 5 is one of the least likely shots one will find on a golf course.

Without the trees any two moderately competent shots will give someone a good birdie chance. With the trees, the tee and approach shots must be hit with some degree of precision.

The PB website lists the hole as 543 yards. How many people can hit a 300 yard drive followed by a 240 yard fairway wood to get home in two? Add water all down the left and OB right and it would be fair to say it requires "some degree of precision". It's well out of my range, and I certainly wouldn't be having any fun stuck behind a tree.

I haven't played the hole, only walked it and that was twenty years ago, but looking at the website plan if you play a second shot short and right you still need to contend with a bunker protecting the green on that side. Besides, what in blazes is wrong with "a good birdie chance" after three consecutive, well executed shots?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sven,

Great photo.

What's interesting about your photo is the tree on the left side of the fairway, right on the hazard line.

Not sure when this photo was taken, but it gives a bit of historical perspective:

[Jeff_Stettner]

I'm sure Pebble can afford a new one with the hundreds of dollars they get from every corporate clown that steps on the first tee.

I am looking forward to playing there with my dad this spring. He is buying clown shoes as we speak.

[Paul Gray]

The character of the course is links golf........

I beg your pardon. 

I do take your point but slippery slope and all that whenever anyone starts using those horrible "links style" sales pitches.