Does Tiger's Chipping Explanation Make sense?

[jeffwarne]

It's been good hearing so much about this chipping as there have been some nice tips going around which I intend to use the next time I hit the course. The main one being the leading edge is not your friend, the club should be at right angles with the ground at impact etc.

The leading edge is not your friend, however, there are many ways to create bounce (starting with enough on the club is one )
but I'd say recently there's been way too much preaching against handle lean.
The hands can still lead the clubhead yet the club not dig -not crazy about the right angle idea-especially with average golfers.
There has to be descent, especially from poor lies-Descent cannot be acheived with the shaft at 90 degrees.
There are certain shots where the club is slid under the ball, but that should never be one's stock shot.
Chipping's been around for years-yet you'd think a few recent instructors invented it.
Want to chip and pitch well?
Get Paul Runyan's book

[archie_struthers]

 


Sad to see but he is losing his ability to play. He keeps talking about his swing and ball striking , he has lost his way .

It's all about the short game and putting .   The first  sign was his loss of the putting magic , then it creeps backwards. Many understand. The speed on his putts was awful, another sign of advancing age and nerves .

It happened to many of the greats , from Hogan  to Nelson , to Arnie , Watson , et al.    It's not a shock , it's just the way it is !

[Brent Hutto]

He may yet recover some of his mojo but I said a couple years ago (before the latest back surgery) that he was the oldest-looking 37-year-old golfer I'd ever seen. He walks, carries himself and acts like a 50-year-old golfer or a 39-year-old ex-football player. Maybe he just started young, burned bright and now is fading fast. Kind of like in the Blake poem.

[Bob_Huntley]

Seeing Tiger Woods struggling to make contact with a wedge is rather like seeing Muhammad Ali  getiing busted up by Larry Holmes at the nadir of his career. Although not a fan of Tiger, he was, in my opinion, the best golfer on the planet when fit. No one has ever come close to winning a U.S. Open by fifteen shots.

I hope he can overcome his problem.

Bob

[Dan Kelly]

Kind of like in the Blake poem.

TIGER, tiger, burning bright   
In the forests of the night,   
What immortal hand or eye   
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?   
 
In what distant deeps or skies            5
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?   
On what wings dare he aspire?   
What the hand dare seize the fire?   
 
And what shoulder and what art   
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?     10
And when thy heart began to beat,   
What dread hand and what dread feet?   
 
What the hammer? what the chain?   
In what furnace was thy brain?   
What the anvil? What dread grasp     15
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?   
 
When the stars threw down their spears,   
And water'd heaven with their tears,   
Did He smile His work to see?   
Did He who made the lamb make thee?     20
 
Tiger, tiger, burning bright   
In the forests of the night,   
What immortal hand or eye   
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?   

[Brian Hilko]

From a technical standpoint if your trying to hit a wedge shot of a super tight lie with the grain into you the shaft has to be at almost 90 degrees so the leading edge doesn't catch. It is not a chipping problem. It is a pitching problem. 95 percent of amateurs I see have no concept of a pitch and can not hit a "true" pitch. Weight forward and hands forward would be the worse advice you could give tiger for this. I watched him chip a few 8 or 9 irons in the telecast and those were better but still not great. He is just stuck between two different methods of pitching. He is taking the club back with little wrist set and then creating a decent amount of forward shaft lean on the down swing. He either needs to commit to no wrist set and shaft lean or get back to setting and releasing in the downswing. Either way will get him back to 90 degrees at contact. The pitching yips are a scary thing. They usually show up in really good players and are very difficult to over come. The comment I read about hitting cuts is really good. This promotes body rotation and shallow through the hitting zone. This would help him more.

[Brent Hutto]

I'm better off avoiding any discussion of golf mechanics as it tends to just add one more to the legion of voices in my head when I'm over the ball. But now I'm tempted to ask one question...

When you guys talk about "hitting cuts" in the short game, would that be opening the club up slightly during the take away then holding that open face angle through impact? Because I think that's what I do (or what I try to do when I'm not yipping it instead).

Or are you talking about setting up with an open stance, open clubface and frankly slicing under the ball more like a bunker shot? That's not something I do except in a bunker.

Boy I'm going to regret asking this.

[Brian Hilko]

I'm better off avoiding any discussion of golf mechanics as it tends to just add one more to the legion of voices in my head when I'm over the ball. But now I'm tempted to ask one question...

When you guys talk about "hitting cuts" in the short game, would that be opening the club up slightly during the take away then holding that open face angle through impact? Because I think that's what I do (or what I try to do when I'm not yipping it instead).

Or are you talking about setting up with an open stance, open clubface and frankly slicing under the ball more like a bunker shot? That's not something I do except in a bunker.

Boy I'm going to regret asking this.

Brent,

Do not worry about face angle. KEEP THINGS SIMPLE! Just try to pull low and left through contact. This will help you use you body vs. hands to hit that shot. Also this move should keep the face open through the whole shot. The simple thought to just hit through the shot will help a lot also.

[Marc Haring]

This must be painful for Eldrick to even acknowledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81fFa_2RCCs

[Brent Hutto]

This must be painful for Eldrick to even acknowledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81fFa_2RCCs

Mark,

Not sure that Tiger cares overmuch about flop shots that Phil has hit. I'd think he would find this clip much more depressing to watch at this juncture...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIGKe6sD4go

Better link: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpz706_tiger-woods-chip-at-the-2005-masters_sport

[Marc Haring]

That was pure genius Brent. Give me a day and a bottle of single malt and I reckon i could come close.

[David_Tepper]

Anyone interested in a good discussion of Tiger's chipping should listen to the new State of the Game Podcast. The special guest is Hank Haney. As you might imagine, he has a lot to say.

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2014/12/8/state-of-the-game-podcast-50-hank-haney.html

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Its all quire simple, just use the bounce that is what it is there for, that is why chipping is not truly related to the rest of the swing..where else do you utilise the bounce?

That is why the likes of Tiger spend hours with club grinders like Nike's Mike Taylor to grind and adapt the bounce to what the techinique demands.
It may be that he is inbetween techniques and personal grinds, butthat would be a stretch of an excuse, it was just bad technique, but bet you its not now!!!!!

[William_G]

He may yet recover some of his mojo but I said a couple years ago (before the latest back surgery) that he was the oldest-looking 37-year-old golfer I'd ever seen. He walks, carries himself and acts like a 50-year-old golfer or a 39-year-old ex-football player. Maybe he just started young, burned bright and now is fading fast. Kind of like in the Blake poem.

he doesn't even use his friends real names as it may tax his brain too much or let on that he really has friends for fear of something   

[William_G]

Its all quire simple, just use the bounce that is what it is there for, that is why chipping is not truly related to the rest of the swing..where else do you utilise the bounce?

That is why the likes of Tiger spend hours with club grinders like Nike's Mike Taylor to grind and adapt the bounce to what the techinique demands.
It may be that he is inbetween techniques and personal grinds, butthat would be a stretch of an excuse, it was just bad technique, but bet you its not now!!!!!

the bounce has to adjusted based on the conditions of the course and the types of chips being hit 

[archie_struthers]

 

Chipping and pitching ! Oh my .   

Phil Rodgers was so good at explaining how cutting across it is so wrong. He did a nice job helping Nicklaus square up the face to use the bounce and loft. His mastery of the short shots was quite impressive . Google him and enjoy .

[Jerry Kluger]

There was an article on GOLFWRX where a guy when to Bob Vokey for a fitting and it was explained that you need more bounce when chipping from tight lies as you don't want the club to dig.

[Brian Hilko]

Chipping and pitching ! Oh my .   

Phil Rodgers was so good at explaining how cutting across it is so wrong. He did a nice job helping Nicklaus square up the face to use the bounce and loft. His mastery of the short shots was quite impressive . Google him and enjoy .

Archie,

FEEL like your cutting it is different than cutting across it. You have to stay on plane which requires you to swing left. If you look at pictures of great players they finish with there body facing the target and club to the left of there body. Also nicklaus was regarded as an average bunker and chipper during his career. His scrambling stats are not that impressive . His ball striking and length was what made him great.

[Brian Hilko]

Archie ,

Here is an article with the stats to back it up. Jack was an average to bad wedge player on tour. It is well documented by his peers also.
http://www.golfspelledbackwards.com/2013/10/how-bad-was-jack-nicklaus-bunker-play.html?m=1

[archie_struthers]

 

Brian. , yes Nicklaus was a bad chipper . That's why he went to Phil Rodgers late in his great career for help. Unusual for Nicklaus , but Rodgers was a genius around the green and he hoped to get some help. He did improve , though it was never his forte .

[cary lichtenstein]

Tiger's chipping looks like yips to me. The yips start with the putting which we all know has been suspect for some time now. His chipping has been an issue all year, which I just wrote off to not practicing.

Typically when your long game comes around, the rest of your game follows and then your ability to score.

I was a wonderful chipper. I never "lost it". I can't remember ever double chipping like I'm seeing Tiger now. I used to start warm up session with my short game. I'd spend 15 minutes and hit sand shots, pirates, chips, lobs. Then I'd switch from my 60 degree wedge to my 56 and spend the next 10 minutes working down to my driver. That's all the practice I ever did and my short game was always sharp.

For Tiger to continually mishit these shorts shots, it's telling me something greater is wrong than not practicing. Sad

[Joe Zucker]

Tiger's description of events has some merit.  Norman describes chips as mini golf swings and had a lot to do with Scott becoming a better chipper.  So when Tiger changes his swing, I think it could have some impact on the short game.  But not to the extent of chunking several shots a round, as everyone here has said, something weird is going on with him.

[David_Tepper]

Speaking of Phil Rodgers, here is a 3-hour short game video with him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFffzY7HfSo

[Steve Wilson]

Speaking of the chipping yips, which prominent player had them so badly on the senior tour that for sometime he forewent chipping altogether?  Was it Charles Coody? 

Bueller?...anyone...?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Its all quire simple, just use the bounce that is what it is there for, that is why chipping is not truly related to the rest of the swing..where else do you utilise the bounce?

That is why the likes of Tiger spend hours with club grinders like Nike's Mike Taylor to grind and adapt the bounce to what the techinique demands.
It may be that he is inbetween techniques and personal grinds, butthat would be a stretch of an excuse, it was just bad technique, but bet you its not now!!!!!

the bounce has to adjusted based on the conditions of the course and the types of chips being hit 

A well constructed and ground wedged is able to cover most conditions.
Tiger didn't change wedges when playing at his peek for ANY events including the Open win at burned out Hoylake,because Taylor had him dialed in with the girnd.
He has made my wedges for 15 years and the same applies to me, I don't change when playing links golf, that is how good a good grinder can be