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Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« on: December 07, 2014, 10:34:50 AM »
I saw a tweet this morning congratulating Jack Nicklaus for being named Golf Magazine's Architect of the Year for 2014.  I couldn't find an article anywhere to confirm.  Does anyone know if this is true?  And if so, what is (or could be) the rationale behind the choice?  Not the selection I would have expected this year.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2014, 10:41:02 AM »
Maybe because he can hit a 3 wood further than Tom Doak?
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Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2014, 10:58:42 AM »
I saw a tweet this morning congratulating Jack Nicklaus for being named Golf Magazine's Architect of the Year for 2014.  I couldn't find an article anywhere to confirm.  Does anyone know if this is true?  And if so, what is (or could be) the rationale behind the choice?  Not the selection I would have expected this year.

who tweeted it? nothing on the golf.com twitter feed.
Coming in 2024
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~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2014, 12:01:24 PM »
He designed Valhalla and Gleneagles, and Donald Ross, Alister Mackenzie, and Harry Colt weren't available.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

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Greg Holland

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2014, 12:34:32 PM »
It is in the January edition of the magazine.  Quivara is best new international and Potomac Shores got Honorable mention behind Gamble Sands as best new course. 

Sam Morrow

Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2014, 12:48:08 PM »
11 pages.......

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2014, 01:00:55 PM »
11 pages.......

Is that the over/under?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2014, 01:04:27 PM »
Congrats to Dismal River. Home to a course by the finest architect of our day.

Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2014, 01:37:56 PM »

who tweeted it? nothing on the golf.com twitter feed.

J Colton, Founder of the 100 Hole Hike. I replied and asked him for more info, but no response yet.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2014, 03:34:17 PM »
It is in the January edition of the magazine.  Quivara is best new international and Potomac Shores got Honorable mention behind Gamble Sands as best new course. 

There was only one "honorable mention" mentioned in the entire article.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2014, 04:02:01 PM »
Whilst he is usually derided on here having played 4 of his courses he has a 50% success rate for me. I always enjoyed Le Robinie just north of Milano when I played it and his 9 hole course at Crans-Montana was certainly the better of the two courses up there after the Seve make over on the main course. Both get a pass from me.

His Gleneagles course is certainly a big disappointment though might have fared better were it not for the comparison showing how good it could have been right next door. Finally, St. Mellion in Cornwall in its original format. What else is there to say other than quite dismal on all fronts.

Jon

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2014, 05:09:55 PM »
Congrats to Mr. Nicklaus.

I just saw his new Baha Mar course in The Bahamas yesterday ... a very nice piece of work.  I didn't believe Michael Pascucci when he told me that working on Sebonack would have an influence on Jack's work going forward, but Baha Mar looks like something my crew would have built ... short grass wall to wall, free form tees, bunkers as buffer to exposed rock on the perimeter of a few holes, and a lot of half-par holes.

Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2014, 05:21:44 PM »
Tom--

Is Baha Mar on the old Cable Beach Casino site?  Thanks in advance for the info.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2014, 05:24:13 PM »
Tom--

Is Baha Mar on the old Cable Beach Casino site?  Thanks in advance for the info.

Yes, but my understanding is that most of the back nine is on new land [to the west] that wasn't part of the old course.  The 16th hole goes down to a peninsula green sticking out into the large lake that's south of Cable Beach.

Jonathan Webb

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2014, 07:01:37 PM »
Tom,

Did you see or play anything else on the island?

If so, can you share your thoughts?

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2014, 07:10:44 PM »
Congrats to Mr. Nicklaus.

I just saw his new Baha Mar course in The Bahamas yesterday ... a very nice piece of work.  I didn't believe Michael Pascucci when he told me that working on Sebonack would have an influence on Jack's work going forward, but Baha Mar looks like something my crew would have built ... short grass wall to wall, free form tees, bunkers as buffer to exposed rock on the perimeter of a few holes, and a lot of half-par holes.


You surprise me Tom.

Nicklaus might be many things but stupid surely isn't one of them. I posted a while back that he was sure to copy 'real architects (or derogatory words to that effect). This surely can't come as too much of a shock. Like it or not, you're cool now and they'll all be at.  :D
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2014, 09:53:39 PM »
That's interesting (and good to read) your perspective on Mr. Nicklaus's work Tom.

I didn't bring it up to bait an anti-Jack pile on.  I brought it up more because it surprised me that, given all the fanfare around the restoration of Pinehurst #2 and the breathless previews of Cabot Cliffs, C&C didn't win this year.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2014, 10:01:15 AM »
Cabot Cliffs will be considered for 2015, not 2014.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2014, 10:06:50 AM »
Nicklaus won the following:

Best New International: Quivira Golf Club, Mexico
Best New US Course you can Play - Honorable Mention: Potomac Shores Golf Club, Virginia
Architect of the Year: Jack Nicklaus - list his accomplishments: Gleneagles (Ryder Cup), Valhalla (PGA) along with clubs mentioned above.

I was also surprised to read that Pete Dye said "Few realize it, but it was at Glen Abbey and Muirfield Village that Jack built the first spectator mounds. it was Jack's idea to incorporate those mounds into the course."
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 11:21:37 AM by Paul Jones »
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2014, 11:06:53 AM »
Cabot Cliffs will be considered for 2015, not 2014.

Ah yes, makes sense.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Peter Pallotta

Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2014, 12:06:09 PM »
This reminds me of a kind of debate one might have regarding actors and the Oscars. If the Oscars were meant to reward outstanding talent, then any year in which Brando, or George C Scott, or Robert DeNiro or Denzel Washington appeared in any film they should've gotten the Oscar for Best Actor, as they were (often by wide margins) the best/most talented actors of their generations. But since the Oscars are meant instead to reward performances in a given picture in a given year (which is as it should be) there needn't in theory be any surprises when a good solid actor given a wonderful role and fine direction delivers that kind of great performance and is recognized for it with an Oscar. Talent doesn't (primarily) exist in theory or in a vacumn -- indeed, it strikes me as a virtually meaningless concept until it is attached to/made manifest in an actual performance or work of art, or through a golf course that exists not in the imagination but in fact.

Peter  
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 12:08:16 PM by PPallotta »

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2014, 12:10:09 PM »
Cabot Cliffs will be considered for 2015, not 2014.

Ah yes, makes sense.

And, of course, the Pinehurst work was done several years ago.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
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Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2014, 12:16:15 PM »
Congrats to Dismal River. Home to a course by the finest architect of our day.

Someone should note that this is very funny.

I nominate myself to do so.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2014, 01:44:04 PM »
Congrats to Mr. Nicklaus.

I just saw his new Baha Mar course in The Bahamas yesterday ... a very nice piece of work.  I didn't believe Michael Pascucci when he told me that working on Sebonack would have an influence on Jack's work going forward, but Baha Mar looks like something my crew would have built ... short grass wall to wall, free form tees, bunkers as buffer to exposed rock on the perimeter of a few holes, and a lot of half-par holes.


"Emulation is the highest form of flattery" comes immediately to mind. I searched on it, and the first result had the comment "I dont think imitation is the highest form of flattery, I think its annoying." ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nicklaus Architect of the Year?
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2014, 01:56:58 PM »
Congrats to Mr. Nicklaus.

I just saw his new Baha Mar course in The Bahamas yesterday ... a very nice piece of work.  I didn't believe Michael Pascucci when he told me that working on Sebonack would have an influence on Jack's work going forward, but Baha Mar looks like something my crew would have built ... short grass wall to wall, free form tees, bunkers as buffer to exposed rock on the perimeter of a few holes, and a lot of half-par holes.


Tom,

Is there anything that you feel that your current work has been influenced based upon your working with Jack at Sebonack?

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