Charlie -
First off - "
letting you participate?" To the contrary, I want to thank you (and others) for choosing to participate. A one-sided discussion isn't much fun, and I needed the perspective of someone who has seen the course over multiple plays and differing conditions.
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Re: the 18th:
- I had the same thought as you in that I would have much preferred to see the final approach of the day rather than have it be a partially blind shot (especially given how cool the 18th/10th corridor and contours look from ~130 or so in). But if you hit the green, that has to be a very satisfying walk.
- As for template finishes, my thought is that I'll judge a hole on its own merits, but recognize that a hole you've seen before may diminish the "Wow" reaction. The one thing PDGC has going for it is the superior topography. So while the 18th at Blackwolf Run (River), Sawgrass and Bulle Rock may all look the same in an aerial / yardage book, PDGC's 18th certainly elicits a more primal response from me (I suppose that may make me an "elevation whore" to borrow someone's term from the "Flat Sites" discussion).
However, since we've noted that Dye has pulled out a number of templates for this design, the fact is that it generally has separated itself is due to something. As illustrated by #18, the topography has to have some effect (and a hole like #8 will never get confused with another hole).
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Re: Front 9 / Back 9
As someone who was not aware of the construction timeframe, I didn't notice a stark difference in feel (other than natural topographic variations) at the time. Whether that's due to a natural cohesiveness or my lack of observational skills is up for debate. But after going through this detailed review, I do sense that the back 9 is a more subtle than the front.
A few random thoughts on the nines:
- The most stark comparison is the par 5s. The front duo is full of drama, while the pair on the back are easy to overlook / dismiss (though I've come to give #11 a little more credit).
- Very Short 4 - #6 tends to resonate with me more just because it's more visible and tempting. The tee shot visuals on #12 don't leave the same impression.
- Par 3s - I would have to give the nod to the back 9. 16 is better than 4 (my Pazin-esque aversion to water
), and while 7 is more visually dramatic, I think #13 is a better hole.
- The rest of the 4s are hard to generalize as Dye built quite a variety.
Looking at your hole rankings, it's easy to understand why you're less of a fan of the back. After playing your favorite hole (#14), the 4 closing holes are all in your bottom 5, so that may be a bit of an anti-climax.
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re: Best is West Virginia. I haven't played any others, so I can't judge, but was curious of your impressions of Pikewood (the other seeming contender along with Old White). I just took a very brief look at the PW website, and when the front page proudly proclaims in bold letters, "USGA Slope Rating 155" and see the number of trees, I would think playability is a concern. A cursory glimpse of the scorecard shows the shortest par 4 at 394 yards (PDGC has 5 < 400), so it gives an initial impression of "hard = good."