Who is Ed Carman?

[BillV]

MAtt

I do give Pine Valley (In my top 5, and that's as much as I'll say!   )a good number and Plainfield (IS my number too high?) as well.  I actually do give a few 10's!  Well-deserved 10's.  Courses are logarithmically rated, there are a lot of courses out there.

Mike Cirba

As for #12 at Running Deer, even walking all around the fairway and left rough on that hole I failed to see the drama.  When they make other improvemnets, I'll stay away from the LONG WET tees, which if they are so bad, one has to wonder the mind with the  logic in ever conceiving them.  (Doak's 2 comes to mind, something about drinking a lot of beer in a scramble?

In short, they have work to do at Running Deer.  With the double and triple hazards, how is one to play in 3 1/2 hours?  The group I played through was driving their carts all over hell and creation looking for a ball, arguing in the middle of the fairway whose ball was who who's and oblivious to all nearby.  My play time was near the suggested time and no one was even close to catching me, so fast play isn't occurring. (But that's irrelevant)

As for Smyer's work in the Garden State, I played West all to myself and BHP East nearly to my self (Certainly to my threesome's self) and each again at least once.  The green complexes at RB are really good.  Take #2, 3, 12, 14 15 just as examples.  It suffers a routing glitch at 13-15, but it is minor and the course is very walkable.  I didn't find any weak holes.  BHP suffers from 18 being a let's get this course back to the clubhouse, but is solid in virtually all 18.  I personally give a nod to RB west.

A golf course can't have all banal, weak or disjointed par 5's and rate a 7 or even 6 in my book, just for starters.  Who here has sais anything good about the 5's at Running Deer.

Also Matt,
Hollywood and Metedeconk I did give 7's.  I had to check.  I think Metedeconk is not as well recognized as does Geoffrey.

[Matt_Ward]

BillV:

Saw your comments -- keep in mind that some courses still do well even when par-5's are a bit weak (i.e. Winged Foot West & East, Baltusrol Upper, etc.). How banal / weak are they?

RD needs to clear some trees and possibly add one or two strategic bunkers on some of these holes and I think that would straighten out people like me who will take great liberties unless there is some sort of penalty. Clearing trees is also something for them to do.

I'll chalk up our differences between BHP / East and RB / West as a matter of disagreement. I see BHP / East as a much stronger and strategic course. I do agree with your comment on #18 at BHP / East. It;s just long and an attempt to get you back to the clubhouse.

I also salute your comments on Metedeconk. Too many people have not played the third nine at the course. I think this combo with the first nine is really the best 18 there.

I thank each of you in sharing some numbers (Mike I still want to see yours privately if that's the case!) because it helps me in seeing how consistent (?) each of you are in your grading.

I'm planning on doing a get together at Forsgate the first weekend of October. Probably the 6th for the afternoon. If interested please advise.

mw

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt,

I'm most definitely in for Forsgate.  Sounds great!

I'll work up a list of Jersey course ratings to share, as well.    

[BV]

OK for Forsgate.

[GeoffreyC]

The 6th at Forsgate works out well for me too.  THANKS

I thought the 12th at RD was a fine par 4, one of the best on the course after 15. From the left tees it seemed to work very well. The approach shot sets up very nicely and the green was severe but one that tied in to the surrounds.

[Matt_Ward]

I'll be working with the club to see if we can get a couple of foursome spots for the 6th.

As soon as I have more info (costs, specific tee times) I'll post a thread specifically to see what interest there is.

Since you guys applied first consider yourselves in.

More to follow ...

*FYI -- Forsgate is located just off NJ Tpke at Exit 8A. About halfway between Phillie and NYC.

[Willie_Dow]

Mike
I remember Ed Carmen being involved at Buena Vista in So Jersey, somewhere in the late '50's.  
A pretty good course which reminded me of Sea View's woods course, before revisions.

[Mike_Cirba]

Willie,

I wasn't aware the Ed Carman was involved at Buena Vista, which was designed in the 50s by William and David Gordon.  In my view, it's clearly one of their best courses.

I should have mentioned it during the "Hidden Gems" thread.  You're right...it's almost like something one might find in the North Carolina sandhills, with some pretty dramatic fairway bunkering; probably as close to Medford Village (another Hidden Gem) as any course they designed.  

I think you'd enjoy a lot of things at Running Deer, Willie.  You should make it a point to head on down and I'd love to hear you come in here and share your viewpoints....perhaps as a tie-breaker!  

[Mike_Cirba]

Willie,

I already KNOW you'd love the rugged bunkering at Running Deer.  It's a great, natural look one sadly sees much too infrequently anymore.

[Joe Bausch]

While using the search function I ran into this old thread where many early posters on GolfClubAtlas participated, chatting up Running Deer GC in south Jersey.  There is much good discussion, IMHO.

And I thought what the thread lacks is photos of the course.  I played there last summer and here is the album I put together:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/RunningDeer/

[Joe Bausch]

Thanks for the kind words, Barry.

I'm thinking maybe a winter GCA gathering at Running Deer might be in order this season.

All you pea-shooters, get ready to be humbled by the 'antlers'!  Did you hear me Timmy and Kris?!