[Jim Sherma]

The course that my club keeps open through the winter, weather permitting, was punched last week. There were no cores taken but rather a solid tine maybe a quarter to a half inch at the top. This was done right before this cold snap. As a novice it seems counterintuitive to expose your roots to very cold weather when you don't have to. They have done this in the past and our staff does a wonderful job. I am not questioning the decisions but rather just trying to understand a little about the rationale for the timing of this. Thanks in advance.

[Jon Wiggett]

Jim,

in northern climes it helps with drainage and allows the frost into the rootzone better to help break up compaction.


Jon

[Dan Kelly]

They did that at my course (Roseville, Minnesota) the day before they covered the greens for the winter.

[Marc Haring]

The roots are going to die off anyway through the winter what ever you do and it will have no detrimental effect on the grass. By helping with drainage and aeration you will maximise the root growth in the spring. This will occur before the advent of top growth. In the UK you normally get root growth start at 4 degree C and top growth will kick off at 10 degrees C.

[Anthony_Nysse]

My guess, with the winter a lot of courses in the north faced with last winter, this will help minimize ice build up and give the water somewhere to go instead of sit on the crown and suffocate the turf.

[Tom_Doak]

The old-guard remedy was to punch the greens just before winter and leave the cores on the greens as a blanket.  When I moved to northern Michigan, some of the best-conditioned courses up here did just that.  But members don't want the greens "out of play" like that anymore, even when the club is closed.

[Anthony_Nysse]

The old-guard remedy was to punch the greens just before winter and leave the cores on the greens as a blanket.  When I moved to northern Michigan, some of the best-conditioned courses up here did just that.  But members don't want the greens "out of play" like that anymore, even when the club is closed.

Now a lot of courses are doing a heavy topdressing to help insulate.

[SL_Solow]

Confirm the heavy topdressing when the course is put to bed.  if its a pushed up, also adds sand to the base in the spring.

[Joe Hancock]

The roots are going to die off anyway through the winter what ever you do and it will have no detrimental effect on the grass. By helping with drainage and aeration you will maximise the root growth in the spring. This will occur before the advent of top growth. In the UK you normally get root growth start at 4 degree C and top growth will kick off at 10 degrees C.

I've never heard of roots dying off in the winter. What's the science behind that?

It would seem to me if the roots are dead, so is the plant, but I'm all ears.

Joe

[Paul Gray]

The old-guard remedy was to punch the greens just before winter and leave the cores on the greens as a blanket.  When I moved to northern Michigan, some of the best-conditioned courses up here did just that.  But members don't want the greens "out of play" like that anymore, even when the club is closed.

But members don't wantvyge greens "out of play" like that anymore, even when the club is closed.

Thanks for the laugh, Tom.

That has to be a new level of stupid.

[Jon Wiggett]

The roots are going to die off anyway through the winter what ever you do and it will have no detrimental effect on the grass. By helping with drainage and aeration you will maximise the root growth in the spring. This will occur before the advent of top growth. In the UK you normally get root growth start at 4 degree C and top growth will kick off at 10 degrees C.

I've never heard of roots dying off in the winter. What's the science behind that?

It would seem to me if the roots are dead, so is the plant, but I'm all ears.

Joe

Joe,

I think what Marc meant was that the roots die back through the winter not that ALL the roots died.

Jon

[Tom_Doak]

The old-guard remedy was to punch the greens just before winter and leave the cores on the greens as a blanket.  When I moved to northern Michigan, some of the best-conditioned courses up here did just that.  But members don't want the greens "out of play" like that anymore, even when the club is closed.

But members don't wantvyge greens "out of play" like that anymore, even when the club is closed.

Thanks for the laugh, Tom.

That has to be a new level of stupid.

Paul:

It's entirely true.  Most clubs up here close at the end of October, but in a good year [i.e. not this year], it's possible to go out and play golf well into November and occasionally even later than that.  The club is closed, but the course is not.  And it's hard to play if the cores are all lying on the greens.

[Sean_A]

I can vouch for Tom.  It was common to leave the cores on the greens at clubs in Michigan.  I am not sure when it changed.  Do clubs still cover the greens?  I was told that many do not because it can cause "freezer burn"? In which case removing the cores makes sense in case lovely weather pops up...which is not unheard of during Michigan winters. 

Ciao     

[Paul Gray]

The old-guard remedy was to punch the greens just before winter and leave the cores on the greens as a blanket.  When I moved to northern Michigan, some of the best-conditioned courses up here did just that.  But members don't want the greens "out of play" like that anymore, even when the club is closed.

But members don't wantvyge greens "out of play" like that anymore, even when the club is closed.

Thanks for the laugh, Tom.

That has to be a new level of stupid.

Paul:

It's entirely true.  Most clubs up here close at the end of October, but in a good year [i.e. not this year], it's possible to go out and play golf well into November and occasionally even later than that.  The club is closed, but the course is not.  And it's hard to play if the cores are all lying on the greens.

Just to be absolutely clear, my comments were not directed at Tom, merely the golfers.

To be fair to them, I was unaware courses could still be played when clubs were closed. I suppose that's a little less incriminating.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I can vouch for Tom.  It was common to leave the cores on the greens at clubs in Michigan.  I am not sure when it changed.  Do clubs still cover the greens?  I was told that many do not because it can cause "freezer burn"? In which case removing the cores makes sense in case lovely weather pops up...which is not unheard of during Michigan winters. 

Ciao     

I saw a lot of courses having covers put down via twitter this year. Early winter has many thinking of last winter. Fingers crossed it doesn't get to that.

[jeffwarne]

The old-guard remedy was to punch the greens just before winter and leave the cores on the greens as a blanket.  When I moved to northern Michigan, some of the best-conditioned courses up here did just that.  But members don't want the greens "out of play" like that anymore, even when the club is closed.

But members don't wantvyge greens "out of play" like that anymore, even when the club is closed.

Thanks for the laugh, Tom.

That has to be a new level of stupid.

Paul,
How exactly would the members at your club react if the greens were closed November-late April?
Last year was an exceptionally cold winter, but a few winters before no doubt had members chomping at the bit to get out on days when the temps were sunny and 40's, 50's and even 60's F-and no doubt that altered the practice of leaving the cores.
It's a delicate balance and cold early winters tend to discourage winter play, but one can't blame members for being tempted to sneak out o a nice day, and the greens end up being pretty good anyway.

Not ideal but often, a fair compromise.

[Terry Poley]

The course that my club keeps open through the winter, weather permitting, was punched last week. There were no cores taken but rather a solid tine maybe a quarter to a half inch at the top. This was done right before this cold snap. As a novice it seems counterintuitive to expose your roots to very cold weather when you don't have to. They have done this in the past and our staff does a wonderful job. I am not questioning the decisions but rather just trying to understand a little about the rationale for the timing of this. Thanks in advance.

Jim, with all due respect, It seems you are just questioning the decision.  You state "They have done this in the past and our staff does a wonderful job".  I would suggest if you truly wish to understand the rationale, ask your golf course superintendent… he knows exactly why he is doing it.  There is no one on this site that knows more about that piece of property and the decisions made there….

[Jim Sherma]

Terry - As I stated below I am not questioning the decision just simply looking for some insights. Given the time of the season I have not been around the club as much and have not had a chance to talk with our super and thought that this was as good a place as any to try to learn something about the science behind it. Our guys do a great job and I am sure they will gladly discuss why they do what they do when I get a chance to talk with them. Prior to posting this I was talking with some of the guys in the shop and they were as unsure of the rationale as I was. I found the conversation that followed up to this point interesting and hopefully I've learned something.

The course that my club keeps open through the winter, weather permitting, was punched last week. There were no cores taken but rather a solid tine maybe a quarter to a half inch at the top. This was done right before this cold snap. As a novice it seems counterintuitive to expose your roots to very cold weather when you don't have to. They have done this in the past and our staff does a wonderful job. I am not questioning the decisions but rather just trying to understand a little about the rationale for the timing of this. Thanks in advance.

Jim, with all due respect, It seems you are just questioning the decision.  You state "They have done this in the past and our staff does a wonderful job".  I would suggest if you truly wish to understand the rationale, ask your golf course superintendent… he knows exactly why he is doing it.  There is no one on this site that knows more about that piece of property and the decisions made there….

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