Centerline yardage poles - UGGH!

[Jerry Kluger]

I am a member of a club which is owned by an individual so it is needless to say that the members have little influence in the operation of the club.  (I have no complaints about this since there are not assessments, etc. which happened over and over again at my previous member owned club.) For some reason the club has had poles in the center of the fairways at 150 yards out and I have never hesitated to say how much I dislike them.  They are a distraction which completely takes away viewing the hole from an architecture point of view as well as strategy in playing the hole.  We had a Champions Tour event a few weeks ago and they always take out the poles for the event and it was decided that they would not put them back - YEAH! Somehow I was viewed as a villain for having advocated this and I have been asked by quite a few members why I could do such a thing as they relied on the poles when they played the course.  I know they realize that my opinion was not the reason why a decision would be made at the club but I tried to explain them why it was better without them and to look at the holes and try to see how much better it is viewing the entire hole rather than some centerline 150 pole.  I am keeping my fingers crossed that the ownership doesn't give in to the whining.

[jeffwarne]

I like them-particularly on resort or daily fee courses
They assist on tee shots giving one a reference.
They speed up approach play giving one  a reference with a mere glance rather than a full scale calculation or Boneslike intervention.

But then I'm far more concerned with how things are rather than how things look (i.e. "we can't do that-we'd look like a Daily fee")
Evidently I'm not alone.

I do find it curious that you hope ownership doesn't give in to whining, given that that's what kept them removed in the first place.

[Jon Wiggett]

I do not mind them to the sides but in the middle of the fairway seems a little odd.

[JLahrman]

I don't really mind them but they seem to be less necessary at a club where members should be familiar with the course.

Why aren't all the members using their distance finding thingamajigs instead? Everybody seems to have one of those except me.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Never bothered me having these available at resort or public courses.  Seems odd though at a club where most play is by members.  Part of the fun should be outsmarting other members by creating your own guides(trees, bushes, etc.)

[Chris DeToro]

I see the value at a public, resort course where people are less familiar and the center line marker provides a guidepost to not only where the hole goes, but possibly lay-up, carry yardages--things you wouldn't know if you didn't play there often. 

[Jerry Kluger]

I have found the difference in my first few rounds to be dramatic.  The poles distract you to aim toward them instead of the proper landing area, especially when it is beyond the pole.  It is hard to describe what I am talking about but visually you often aim at something in the distance such as a tree but with the centerline pole you look up and see it right before your shot.  We have a par 5 with a diagonal second shot across water and you should try to hit it to 100 yards out but you see the 150 and it distracts you hit toward it and you wind up across the fairway into a different hazard. I don't buy that it speeds up play as we have our sprinklers marked to the front, middle and back and we have a daily pin sheet with respect to how far on the green the hole is located.  In fact, they have always painted a circle around the sprinklers to make it easier to find them.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I hate them at the sides. A coloured disc at 100 150 200 250 is fine in the centreline so ok by me. Clearly everyone likes different things, we may be united in preferring nothing though.

[jeffwarne]

Jerry,
I'll weakly play Devil's advocate.
Which is faster?  Finding a painted sprinkler head,walking back to your ball, looking at a pin sheet, and calculating a 177 shot,and hitting.
or glancing at a vertical 150-roughly estimating +30 yards,actually looking at where the pin is on the green, or color of the flag and hitting.
My point is those using the poles are estimating their yardages, and those hunting sprinklers are doing exact math-and VERY few ever hit it the exact yardage they intend on purpose-and are not using their eyes to maximum advantage by simply playing the numbers they THINK they hit it.

Do you and the owner have frequent money matches?
cause it seems there's a lot going on upstairs and he may just be fu#$%^ing with you

I do like Adrian's solution as is common at most UK courses

[Jon Wiggett]

I hate them at the sides. A coloured disc at 100 150 200 250 is fine in the centreline so ok by me. Clearly everyone likes different things, we may be united in preferring nothing though.

+2

[Brent Hutto]

I do appreciate those 150 poles on a resort course I'm playing once. Very convenient.

But for normal situation, I think having no visible aids on the course and my rangefinder in my golf bag is the ideal combination. Those who hate seeing posts and marked sprinklers and whatever don't have to see them. And I don't need them anyway. Seems win-win.

[Jerry Kluger]

Jeff: All you have to do is be a bit observant as you approach your ball.  If necessary glance at the pin sheet, look for a sprinkler head and calculate how far you are.  My belief is that the poles are a distraction that in the end cause you not to play as well.  BTW: The owner never plays with the members and I only spoke to him once when he was ten minutes late for his tee time and I was behind him - I have no problem with this as he is very wealthy and very generous.  

Adrian: I have no problem with discs in the ground and I could accept distance markers on the side of the holes.

Brent: I could possibly see the benefit at a resort course with carts which must be kept on the cart paths.

[Jason Thurman]

Jerry, it sounds like you're able to see the architecture of the course more clearly without the posts. However, I doubt your fellow members are experiencing the same enlightenment.

Do you think you had a hard time looking beyond the posts to see the ideal landing areas before? Why?

Either way, it seems like you have a new advantage over your peers that may actually be magnified by bringing them back. If everyone else is aiming for the posts and unable to see the ideal angles that you have gained a better understanding of since the posts were removed, you will intrinsically have an advantage going forward over the player who simply aims at the aiming post.

[Tim Martin]

I have always been a fan of the barber pole at 150 for both a directional aid and a distance aid. I understand that on a private members course that people may not like them but on a resort/public they work well. It usually benefits the player to aim at a target that bisects the fairway.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Private golf club + politics + intelligent golf course suggestions = no-win scenario.

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite REaction."

Best to make changes like this in the background (through back channels) and your efforts then become the ideas of others who, in your case, own the club.

[Paul Gray]

I have no objection to the poles if kept to the sides of the fairways. In the middle of the fairways however strikes me as utterly unpleasant and I'm not usually one to get carried away about aesthetics. Why would you not have them to the sides?

[Thomas Dai]

Coloured disk at 50yd intervals along the centre line of a hole say from 200 yds out is fine by me. I'm also comfortable with different coloured flags for front-middle-rear pin placements.

Distance poles in the centre of the fairways, no thanks, and as for distance poles or dwarf conifers at the sides of the fairways, well I remember once playing a course that instead of poles/dwaft conifers had the yardages to the middle of the green neatly painted/stencilled onto appropriately sized natural nearby tree trunks, which was something I'd not seen before (or since). It worked rather well too and no moving of poles is needed when mowing.

atb

[Bob_Huntley]

I wonder how many of us here have played a course without any yardage markers at all? No range finders, no caddies no small booklet with information, just play what you see. I did and it was a blast.

Where on earth is Melvyn?

Bob

[PCCraig]

My home course put in 150 yard markers in last year, and I like them. They are off to the side of tees on par-3's and fairways on par 4's and 5's. Our course has a number of blind approach shots, so they are striped red & white when the pin is up front, all white when in the middle, and blue & white when in the back. Doing that saves some walking up various hills to see where the pin is and therefore helps speed up play a little bit.

[Brent Hutto]

I wonder how many of us here have played a course without any yardage markers at all? No range finders, no caddies no small booklet with information, just play what you see. I did and it was a blast.

Where on earth is Melvyn?

Bob

I've played a course with nothing but a 4-iron, although after about seven or eight holes I started borrowing a putter from the guy I was with. It was fun once. Haven't bothered to do it again.

[Paul Gray]

I wonder how many of us here have played a course without any yardage markers at all? No range finders, no caddies no small booklet with information, just play what you see. I did and it was a blast.

Where on earth is Melvyn?

Bob

Growing up playing the game in Britain, all the time. I don't think I saw a yardage post or marked sprinkler (or any sprinkler even) until I was a grown man.

[Thomas Dai]

I wonder how many of us here have played a course without any yardage markers at all? No range finders, no caddies no small booklet with information, just play what you see. I did and it was a blast.
Bob

Bob,

There are another couple of versions, again with your stated restrictions -

*play to very small pins, like only 1 ft tall
*play to greens with no pins at all, just 'empty' holes.

I've done both. Scores were surprisingly good, for many the scores were better. Pretty good for course management - shoot for the middle not for the pins coz you can't see them!

atb

[jeffwarne]

My home course put in 150 yard markers in last year, and I like them. They are off to the side of tees on par-3's and fairways on par 4's and 5's. Our course has a number of blind approach shots, so they are striped red & white when the pin is up front, all white when in the middle, and blue & white when in the back. Doing that saves some walking up various hills to see where the pin is and therefore helps speed up play a little bit.

simple, yet effective

[Ben Hollerbach]

I wonder how many of us here have played a course without any yardage markers at all? No range finders, no caddies no small booklet with information, just play what you see. I did and it was a blast.

Where on earth is Melvyn?

Bob

In the past month I have played a surprising number of rounds on courses with a great variety of distance aids.

1. No yardages marked of any kind, including total hole distances from the tee
2. Total hole distance known but the holes were not marked.
3. Total hole distance known, 150 yard post mounted off to the side of the fairway
4. Total hole distance known, 150 yard post mounted off to the side of the fairway, colored disks along the fairway centerline
5. Total hole distance known, marked sprinkler heads
6. Total hole distance known, colored disks along the fairway centerline, marked sprinker heads.

I should note that all rounds were played with hickories, with the gaping of my set and the lack of spin produced by the clubs I rarely care about exact yardages when playing with them. Most of the time my concern is how far is it to carry feature A, or stop before feature B, as I'm always landing the ball short of my intended target, this leads to me hitting very few full shots.

I found myself completely lost on the first course, unable to relate my distance to any known number lead to the majority of my approaches being way off and playing tee shots that were rather inappropriate for the hole. Knowing the hole length for the second course gave me enough information to navigate around the course in an acceptable fashion. I was able to at a minimum use my average driving distances and the hole distance to calculate approximate approach distances. Once the course had a recognizable 150 poll I felt that was all I needed to play the course effectively, I could use the hole length and the location of the poll to get a good understanding of where my drive was going to end up and how in play the bunkers would be. For the approach shots it was about gauging my distance to the poll and calculating from there. I didn't feel the need to pace of distances and was able to quickly evaluate my shot before struck.

Everything beyond that, plates in the fairway and marked sprinklers, help to calculate a more precises number but are not needed. I think a lot of this has to do with the form of golf I'm playing, a game played closer to the ground is much more feel based and exact yardages can't tell a player how to hit the shot. Whereas a game played entirely through the air, the player must rely on exact yardages for best execution. 

[Dave McCollum]

Supers like them.  Only 1 thing to remove when mowing.  Personally I don't much care for them.  We also have colored plates at ground level.  They require maintenance a couple of times a year.