Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie

[Sean_A]

Niall

Since Braid was adverse to water his "territory" was no bigger than a combo of a few US states.  Certainly if an archie is working in only a few adjacent states he would be considered regional.  Ross covered a bit more ground than a few states.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

I said Braid as he is rarely mentioned on here when we talk about GCA greats. We tend to bang on about the greats such as Colt and so on yet the courses mentioned as fantastic from such are also on really good pieces of land. Form personal experience I can compare Dr. Mac and Braid in quite some depth having played many courses designed by both.

The good doctor does have several examples of great courses but all on great pieces of land. He also has many mediocre courses on mediocre land. I would suggest that his best achievement was Alwoodley where he produce a world class course on a mediocre property without resorting to anything OTT in the design. This is really a course where its total is far more then the sum of it's parts.

Braid for me produced many, many courses that whilst not world class certainly got the most out of mediocre property. Indeed, I suspect there was only Ross who could match him in this respect but where as Ross is vaunted for this fact Braid is often sniffed at by many.

Jon

[RDecker]

How about Orrin Smith, anyone here ever played Torrington Country Club in CT.  It's very cool and they have a new Superintendent from the Treehouse to boot.

[Rick Shefchik]

Tom Vardon.

He is probably the epitome of the regional architect, being based in Minnesota from 1916-1936, but he was both prolific -- more than 40 courses from Western Wisconsin to the Dakotas -- and skilled. Even in Minnesota his work has only recently come to be appreciated, but anyone who plays Hillcrest, the University of Minnesota, Southview, Stillwater CC (my home course), Eau Claire Country Club or Spooner, Wis., will quickly come to realize that Vardon shared the stylistic values and instincts of the best of the U.K. imports.

[abmack]

Fred Hood - Kittansett is amazing!

I think he had an assist from a guy named Flynn.

My understanding is Hood received a very limited assist from Flynn, in that Flynn provided a partial routing.  In addition, my understanding is Fred Hood completed the routing and oversaw every last detail @ Kittansett, and it is essentially Fred Hood's baby.  Perhaps I'm wrong......

I do not think this is true. Frederic Hood is responsible for making the construction happen and carrying out Flynn's original plans. I do not, in fact, know what if anything he contributed to the course's design. All of the original drawings and blueprints have Flynn's name on them.


The original plan of the 15th at Kittansett (Source: Nature Faker: William S. Flynn, Golf Course Architect)

As it sits now, Kittansett is very similar to the Flynn's plans and Gil Hanse's plan for future changes will restore features from those plans. My understanding is that Hood received sole credit for Kitty because the club did not know about Flynn's original plans. Now that they do, Flynn's name appears above Hood's name on the scorecard.


My choice for most under-appreciated Golden Age architect is Devereux Emmet.

[Robert Emmons]

Emmet of course...RHE

[Garland Bayley]

Langford would be my US choice as well, but didn't put him ahead of Braid as my pick because Langford is well appreciated, at least on this site. 

Considering their body of work which of those two do you hold in higher regard?  I've only seen Walton Heath and the Braid holes at Deal so don't have much to compare them by. 

 However, I think Braid is 10x more celebrated as an architect by the general public than Langford is.

Which "general public" are you referring to Tom?
I'd say the general public has heard of neither

It seems to me that people playing many of the Braid courses have heard of him. It seems most of them have a hole named after him. Things like Braid's Best, Braid's Favorite, etc.

[Niall C]

Niall

Since Braid was adverse to water his "territory" was no bigger than a combo of a few US states.  Certainly if an archie is working in only a few adjacent states he would be considered regional.  Ross covered a bit more ground than a few states.

Ciao

Sean

Can’t help thinking that defining whether an architect is regional or not by geographical spread is a bit arbitrary particularly as it relates to Braid. For one thing Braid, worked on some 400 courses that included links, moorland, parkland and heathland. He also worked the length and breadth of Britain from the highlands of Scotland to the southern coast of England. And that’s not including courses outwith the UK.

In terms of the variety of terrain, soils and landforms that he worked with then I’ve got to think he would compare favourably with Ross who was almost entirely regional, albeit in quite a bit bigger region  .

You could also argue that an architect could also be more than regional if there influence extended beyond a single region. Not sure if either Braid or Ross would qualify on that score.

Niall

[Ryan Coles]

I'll retract my earlier comments. I always think Berkshire and Saunton are under rated and now seeing the stunning Eastward Ho pictures, my vote goes to Fowler.

[Garland Bayley]

...
In terms of the variety of terrain, soils and landforms that he worked with then I’ve got to think he would compare favourably with Ross who was almost entirely regional, albeit in quite a bit bigger region  .
...

Did Ross design any courses across the pond in the British Isles, like Braid did across the pond in the States?

[Steve Curry]

How about Orrin Smith, anyone here ever played Torrington Country Club in CT.  It's very cool and they have a new Superintendent from the Treehouse to boot.

  Thanks Bob.  Orrin Smith certainly deserves consideration as an under appreciated archie.

Cheer,
Steve

[Willie_Dow]

Willie Park would get my vote, especially because of routing.


New Bedford C/C is a good example for comparison with Ross.  The first nine by Willie and the back by Ross (with a few adjustments involved) give one a fine tooth comb comparison of routing judgement.

[Steve Sayre]

Devereux Emmet.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=3108.0
e.g., been playing Leatherstocking this week. Nice.

[Jeff Bergeron]

Alec "Nipper" Campbell

[Steve Curry]

Steve - Leatherstocking is one of my favorites.  16 17 and 18 are super holes ecpecially 18.

Steve

[Rick Emerson]

How about John Bredemus. He only designed in Texas and Mexico. His most famous courses would be Colonial and Memorial Park, but he has designed lots of other courses as well such as Glen Garden of Hogan Nelson Fame. I don't know if he's underapreciated but he is definitely not well known. Here's a link to courses he's designed.

http://www.worldgolf.com/golf-architects/john-bredemus.html

[David Stamm]

William Watson
William P. Bell
Norman Macbeth
John Duncan Dunn
Max Behr

[MCirba]

I would agree with Bill Dow that Willie Park was a genius, perhaps the father of classic architecture, and is amazingly unknown and under-rated.   Dev Emmet was another great one who doesn't get adequate props.

But I'd nominate also nominate Walter Travis.

As regards the Kittansett discussion above, you may be interested in a related thread I started earlier today found here;

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61686.0.html

[Anthony Gholz]

Ben:


I'd go along with Vern Macan.  I'm embarrassed to say that before my trip to Vancouver three years ago I never heard of him, even though Ron's book had a piece on him (BTW there's no way to memorize that book!).  Today though with Mike Riste's book and Jeff's constant drumbeat I think he's moved up in the attention scale.

[/size]You in particular know that I'm beating a drum for Alison, and even a bit for Harry Colt. Two architects that no-one on this site thinks is forgotten.  However, consider the following:I bought Pugh and Lord's glorious tome The Golf Courses of Harry Colt a couple years back thinking it would be the be all, end all of books on Colt.  It has some magnificent photos and all the right pedigree with a Thomson foreword and what looks like an endless budget for pages.  However, the sum total of courses for C&A (in whatever corporate iteration you wish to consider) in North America is ONE.  You don't even get to guess which one.  Frank Pont's home country gets better attention.[size=78%]
[/size]Back to Alison.  With Phil Young's recent discoveries regarding Bloomfield Hills CC and its Bendelow/Colt pedigree, it brought to my attention that all of Colt's solo courses in NA, except one, were revised in someway by Alison between 1920 and 29.  BH (to date) being the only exception.  So my vote is for the "forgotten" partner of the Colt & Alison (and Mackenzie and Morrison) firm.[size=78%]

[/size]Tony (beating the drum for Alison)[size=78%]

[Adam Clayman]

Since he's only been mentioned once on this thread, and that was at the bottom of the list, Max Behr proves the posit.

[GLawson]

Only played one of his courses but Maurice McCarthy did some amazing work at Hershey.  Anyone played Forest Lake in Colombia?

[Jamey Bryan]

Forest Lake in Columbia, SC is a very pleasant and sporty members course.  I'd be very interested to know the degree to which it was "treed" when first opened in the late '20s, as it is extraordinarily narrow today.  It's only around 6300 yards (par 72) and on a very small piece of property, so significant expansion is not a possibility.  I suppose the tight nature of the course is now seen as its' primary defense (even members say you have to walk single file down the fairways).  I like the course and really enjoy it when invited, but it's not really a "championship" course by today's standards.  It does offer a reasonable variety of holes and is always immaculate.

Jamey