News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Sam Krume

  • Karma: +0/-0
Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« on: November 13, 2014, 01:28:10 PM »
Off to Gleneagles in a couple of weeks (honeymoon!!) my stag was playing Stoneham and IOP. Haven't played the PGA before, doesn't look like either kings or queens. Can some body give me a course that would be similar?

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2014, 03:49:05 AM »
The London Club.

Not only is the Ryder Cup course by far the worst at Gleneagles they now charge a £50 premium to play it. Drink better wine, treat the wife in the spa or play the Kings course more. It's only worth £50 less not more!
Cave Nil Vino

Sam Krume

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2014, 06:29:19 AM »
Many thanks Mark, but unfortunately the Kings is closed for work so it is the PGA..

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2014, 07:47:25 AM »
Lots of great golf within an hour of Gleneagles.

Might be an ideal time to begin the "training"
She should know that men have "needs" too
or in a pinch you can tell her it was a 6 hour round on the Centenary ;) :o
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sam Krume

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2014, 12:55:13 PM »
well after 17 years, i think I have the "training" well and truly sorted ;D. It was her idea to go to Gleneagles!!!

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2014, 01:02:43 PM »
well after 17 years, i think I have the "training" well and truly sorted ;D. It was her idea to go to Gleneagles!!!

Yep, after 17 years no doubt she knows "needs" means frequent and regular golf, on both familiar and unfamiliar courses ;)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2014, 01:03:10 PM »
Look on the bright side, it isn't Celtic Manor.

The Queen's course could be busy. Come to think of it, maybe we've all misjudged it and the whole Centenary Course thing is actually a brilliant way of directing the idiots one way whilst freeing up the other courses for more astute judges.  ;D

In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2014, 03:50:22 PM »
Sam I'd go and have a pedicure and facial! The Centenary is like going to St Andrews and playing crazy golf.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 06:08:48 PM by Mark Chaplin »
Cave Nil Vino

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2014, 04:16:49 PM »
San I'd go and have a pedicure and facial! The Centenary is like going to St Andrews and playing crazy golf.

I love crazy golf. Well, I'd prefer it to The Centenary anyway.  ;D
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2014, 06:10:35 PM »
To be fair it's not a bad course it just belongs next to Scratchwood Services not the glens of Gleneagles.
Cave Nil Vino

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2014, 03:32:28 AM »
To be fair it's not a bad course it just belongs next to Scratchwood Services not the glens of Gleneagles.

Mark, what is so bad about Scratchwood Services ???  ;D

Sam Krume

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2014, 07:59:32 AM »
very interested to hear all these comments. It sounds like Mr Nicklaus shall we say, has made a bit of a pigs ear of the land he was given. I guess I will have to reserve judgement until I play the damn thing...

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2014, 11:36:25 AM »
Wasn't the Centenary re-worked a bit by David M. Kidd within the past year or two?

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2014, 11:56:52 AM »
David and his team did some work on the Centenary, but that was several years ago. The Nicklaus team was brought back in after that work was done; I'm not sure how much of it remains in the ground, but the renovations immediately before the RC, including the rebuild of the eighteenth, were done by Nicklaus Design.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2014, 12:07:49 PM »
Adam -

Thanks for the update. I was not aware the Nicklaus team had been back post-DM Kidd.

DT

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2014, 12:10:31 PM »
The Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course, the 2010 at Celtic Manor as well as other moderns like The Grove plus the various Irish moderns don't seem to get much love herein.

I wonder where they'd all be numbered on a ranking of 'Best GB&I built since say 1990"?

atb

James Bledge

Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2014, 01:16:57 PM »
I really feel the PGA Centenary gets a hard deal, often branded the worst of the 3. The Kings and Queens are exceptional golf courses however the PGA is a beast. I really feel it shone in the Ryder Cup, as well as I've ever seen a course set up. Granted hole 12 is a poor hole but there are some crackers. Some of the back drops are stunning and as the years go on I'm sure it will get better and better.

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2014, 04:34:47 PM »
I really feel the PGA Centenary gets a hard deal, often branded the worst of the 3. The Kings and Queens are exceptional golf courses however the PGA is a beast. I really feel it shone in the Ryder Cup, as well as I've ever seen a course set up. Granted hole 12 is a poor hole but there are some crackers. Some of the back drops are stunning and as the years go on I'm sure it will get better and better.

It is what it is. I've only played the Kings so maybe can't comment but when you look at the Ballyhack thread over potentially similar ground and..........

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2014, 05:58:03 PM »
It's over twenty years old so well bedded in.
Cave Nil Vino

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2014, 06:20:13 PM »
I really feel the PGA Centenary gets a hard deal, often branded the worst of the 3. The Kings and Queens are exceptional golf courses however the PGA is a beast. I really feel it shone in the Ryder Cup, as well as I've ever seen a course set up. Granted hole 12 is a poor hole but there are some crackers. Some of the back drops are stunning and as the years go on I'm sure it will get better and better.

James,

Welcome to GCA! The Kings ans Queens courses are beautifully laid on the Scottish landscape, although I've had the pleasure to play both I haven't played the Centenary Course. From tv it appears to have as much direct connection to Scotland as it does to Florida. I realize course have to be long to challenges Pro golfers, but what does this course bring to the table that I'm missing? I'm not ready to drop hundreds  to play there.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2014, 06:35:11 PM »
I really feel the PGA Centenary gets a hard deal, often branded the worst of the 3. The Kings and Queens are exceptional golf courses however the PGA is a beast. I really feel it shone in the Ryder Cup, as well as I've ever seen a course set up. Granted hole 12 is a poor hole but there are some crackers. Some of the back drops are stunning and as the years go on I'm sure it will get better and better.

James,

Welcome to GCA.

In six months time you're going to remember that post and feel a deep sense of shame. Don't beat yourself up about it.  ;D
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2014, 06:37:38 PM »
The Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course, the 2010 at Celtic Manor as well as other moderns like The Grove plus the various Irish moderns don't seem to get much love herein.

I wonder where they'd all be numbered on a ranking of 'Best GB&I built since say 1990"?

atb

Something of a tangent but have you (has anyone) played Remedy Oak? I haven't but I've heard missed reviews, some from people that I sort of trust and some from people that I simply don't.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2014, 05:40:19 AM »
Quote
Something of a tangent but have you (has anyone) played Remedy Oak? I haven't but I've heard missed reviews, some from people that I sort of trust and some from people that I simply don't.

I have played it and I think I even posted a little photo tour a few years ago but the pictures have long since gone. The general and indeed my consensus is that it was again a waisted opportunity over what is amazing land.

The bulk of the design work was carried out by the then course manager who was running their other course at Canford Magna. It shows in the bunkering which is uninspired but easy to maintain. There are some ok holes and there are some bad ones.

A round over there (and it's worth a trip if you can get a discount on the greenfee) will leave you sighing as to what could have been created if they had had the foresight to employ someone with talent as an architect. John Jacobs gives his name to the design but we all know he had little to do with the finished result.  :'( :'( :'( :'(

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2014, 06:01:57 AM »
I've played Remedy, and basically agree with Marc. It is a glorious piece of land; there can't have been many better inland sites made available for golf in the UK in the last 50 years or so. There was architect involvement in the routing, but the developer decided he could/would do the details - green design etc - on his own, with, as Marc says, his course manager to help.

The interesting thing about that is I felt there were a few elements that a professional architect would not have done, but that worked rather well. On the other hand, there were other (more) elements that an architect wouldn't have done because they were pretty silly.

I know they've been doing some renovation work - rebuilding a few greens in particular - in the last year or two, and I haven't seen the course since that work. But it's certainly not a place I would turn down a game, though if visiting that area it wouldn't be one of my very top choices - Broadstone, Parkstone etc are certainly much better.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gleneagles PGA Centenary Course
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2014, 06:45:18 AM »
Remedy Oak is a decent coure in a lovely setting but you can tell where it lacked the professional input. I'd certainly play there again, if invited.

Bledge any ideas if Gleneagles bid for the Ryder Cup as the Centenary course was under performing commercially? I always believed the owners in the 1980s thought a Nicklaus course would bring more American visitors and failed to appreciate the style of golf they already had and went for the US style of course. Surely it would have been possible to build a course in the style of the Kings to challenge the very best?
Finally is GWest more Kings or Centenary?
Cave Nil Vino