News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


noonan

Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2014, 03:05:18 AM »


This view is from about 190 yards off the tee. You can only hit 3 wood because at 225 or so it heads down the hill with high grass. Which leaves you a long shot with a down hill stance to a green fronted by a creek.

This is #3 on Shaker Run - Woodlands
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 03:11:20 AM by Jerry Kessler »

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2014, 07:33:57 AM »
Jerry,

I think this one has merit because of the relative suitably of its errors. At first glance there's nothing too shocking and it would be good to have a hole which required local knowledge in order to appreciate its shiteness! Apart from the brilliance involved in just inexplicably quitting on the short grass, the trees to the left look to be prime examples of sky mines!
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2014, 08:21:28 AM »
Not a great hole, but surely not world class terrible. I think you could find thousands of worse holes with no imagination, character, soul or anything else to recommend them.

noonan

Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2014, 04:01:44 PM »
Not a great hole, but surely not world class terrible. I think you could find thousands of worse holes with no imagination, character, soul or anything else to recommend them.
Given how well the rest of the course is rated - this hole sticks out like a sore thumb

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2014, 06:56:08 AM »
I'll nominate 18 at PGA West Stadium course--another lengthy par 4 there with water down the left side that looks eerily familiar

Ben Malach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2014, 01:50:23 PM »
I submit the 1st at Shaganappi Point. A 243 yard par 4 with no fairway and an peninsula green.
@benmalach on Instagram and Twitter

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2014, 02:08:27 PM »
I submit the 1st at Shaganappi Point. A 243 yard par 4 with no fairway and an peninsula green.

Sorry, no fairway? I'm all for blurring the lines between the fairway and 'not so fairway' but what do you do here?
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2014, 02:09:35 PM »
My word Ben that is a shocker....

But wait, could it actually be a marketing masterstroke. Surely all serious golfers will require several shots of the hard stuff in the bar before play commences.


Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2014, 02:21:41 PM »
My word Ben that is a shocker....

But wait, could it actually be a marketing masterstroke. Surely all serious golfers will require several shots of the hard stuff in the bar before play commences.



I'm guessing the revenue from lake balls is pretty good!
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Brian Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2014, 02:32:20 PM »
I submit the 1st at Shaganappi Point. A 243 yard par 4 with no fairway and an peninsula green.

This is brilliant, I can't think of a better submission for an opening hole.  Either two short irons or having your first shot of the day be a hit and hope wood or driver to a peninsula green surrounded by water on 3 sides.  Donald Ross's worst nightmare.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2014, 02:47:47 PM »
I submit the 1st at Shaganappi Point. A 243 yard par 4 with no fairway and an peninsula green.

This is brilliant, I can't think of a better submission for an opening hole.  Either two short irons or having your first shot of the day be a hit and hope wood or driver to a peninsula green surrounded by water on 3 sides.  Donald Ross's worst nightmare.

It's only one shortcoming is that by in effect being a very tough one shotter it actually prevents course congestion. Shame.  ;D

Nonetheless, I think we have a serious contender for opening hole. I had thought the hole which started this whole thread would be the ideal candidate but this might have trumped it!
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Brian Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2014, 03:37:30 PM »
Ok, I'll bite.  Growing up in East TN, I was able to play a lot of high school matches and tournaments at the best courses in the region... and also more than a few rural tracks that were way off the beaten path.  It's been almost 20 years since I've played this course, but my memory is still strong of this as a poorly routed hole.

Given the topography of the region, the most common flaw I saw on courses was trying to cram more of a hole into a spot than land was available for.  The biggest example of this is the one I am submitting for review.  

The course is a small-time family owned operation with no internet presence I can see... so for the sake of this thread I'll call it "Mountain Farm CC".  The 3rd hole at MFCC is a downhill, roughly 460 yard par 5 on a direct line from tee to green, but 490 yards on the scorecard.  So easily reachable in 2 under normal circumstances.



The black line shows the typical line of play for the hole.  Other holes in the vicinity are shown in Orange, #1 & #2 at the bottom, #4 at the top, and #8 at the left.  Given the other holes nearby, the most logical routing would have been the blue line, resulting in a fairly modest 350 yard par 4.  However, it appears the architect did not want to open with 4 consecutive par 4s under 400 yards, and wanted a par-36 front nine at all costs, so we have this hole as a result.

The defining feature of the hole is a cluster of very tall, thick trees, roughly 150 yards from the green on a direct path from tee to green.  Up to that point, the hole is downhill with a slope from the golfer's right to left.  

When playing the hole as designed, one must hit their drive directly over the cart park, a couple of trees, and the second green, with a 250-275 yard drive placing them squarely behind the cluster of trees about 180 yards from the green.  For the second shot, the player must either try to hit it through the trees, or go wedge, wedge to the green.

After playing the hole a couple of times, one realizes going way right, up the 2nd fairway, is a better approach.... which is of course dangerous as the trailing group is coming up the 2nd fairway!  So the club added multiple additional trees and an internal out of bounds (marked in white) as the tree line up the right.  And not to be outdone... to prevent the left option, they staked off the left side as well!  And as a final act, any shots getting just a glancing blow from the trees on the second shot would come down into a particularly nasty bunker about 100 yards from the green.

Also, the tee box was well positioned for any hooks off the 8th tee to come right in the direction of the tee box.... meaning this beauty of a hole interferes with the play of 3 other holes.

Just a mess of a hole from start to finish - only a lawyer could love this hole.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 03:39:23 PM by Brian Freeman »

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2014, 04:18:41 PM »
Ok, I'll bite.  Growing up in East TN, I was able to play a lot of high school matches and tournaments at the best courses in the region... and also more than a few rural tracks that were way off the beaten path.  It's been almost 20 years since I've played this course, but my memory is still strong of this as a poorly routed hole.

Given the topography of the region, the most common flaw I saw on courses was trying to cram more of a hole into a spot than land was available for.  The biggest example of this is the one I am submitting for review.  

The course is a small-time family owned operation with no internet presence I can see... so for the sake of this thread I'll call it "Mountain Farm CC".  The 3rd hole at MFCC is a downhill, roughly 460 yard par 5 on a direct line from tee to green, but 490 yards on the scorecard.  So easily reachable in 2 under normal circumstances.



The black line shows the typical line of play for the hole.  Other holes in the vicinity are shown in Orange, #1 & #2 at the bottom, #4 at the top, and #8 at the left.  Given the other holes nearby, the most logical routing would have been the blue line, resulting in a fairly modest 350 yard par 4.  However, it appears the architect did not want to open with 4 consecutive par 4s under 400 yards, and wanted a par-36 front nine at all costs, so we have this hole as a result.

The defining feature of the hole is a cluster of very tall, thick trees, roughly 150 yards from the green on a direct path from tee to green.  Up to that point, the hole is downhill with a slope from the golfer's right to left.  

When playing the hole as designed, one must hit their drive directly over the cart park, a couple of trees, and the second green, with a 250-275 yard drive placing them squarely behind the cluster of trees about 180 yards from the green.  For the second shot, the player must either try to hit it through the trees, or go wedge, wedge to the green.

After playing the hole a couple of times, one realizes going way right, up the 2nd fairway, is a better approach.... which is of course dangerous as the trailing group is coming up the 2nd fairway!  So the club added multiple additional trees and an internal out of bounds (marked in white) as the tree line up the right.  And not to be outdone... to prevent the left option, they staked off the left side as well!  And as a final act, any shots getting just a glancing blow from the trees on the second shot would come down into a particularly nasty bunker about 100 yards from the green.

Also, the tee box was well positioned for any hooks off the 8th tee to come right in the direction of the tee box.... meaning this beauty of a hole interferes with the play of 3 other holes.

Just a mess of a hole from start to finish - only a lawyer could love this hole.

Wow. Just wow.

We've been inundated with crap par 5's here at Shitsville Golf and Country Club (it's a working title and alternatives would be welcomed) but this has to make the final cut.  ;D
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Kevin Stark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2014, 04:39:41 PM »
I submit the 1st at Shaganappi Point. A 243 yard par 4 with no fairway and an peninsula green.

That is spectacularly bad. I am impressed.

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2014, 05:02:27 PM »






That is world beater bad.

It looks like you actually have to hit your drive over an internal OB. But from your white lines, the OB starts and ends "in the air". It's not anchored to anything. It must lead to some rules questions when a ball is  just beyond/short of the end stake.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2014, 08:03:15 PM »
People,

We have a course. Unfortunately, we currently have a course with a par of 78 (admittedly such knee jerk, narrow minded thinking shouldn't have any place in this melange of out of the box thinking) and there's an obvious lack of mind boggling par 3s. We have a couple, one of which, requiring the golfer to literally aim for a nice rebound off of a target behind the green, is an absolute corker. Any other one shotters, anyone?

If I may, I think Ben Malach has secured the opening hole with the 1st at Shaganappi Point: a par 4 of 246 yards played over water with absolutely no fairway.

Bragging rights for securing the 18th hole I feel should go to Brian Freeman for the wonderful 3rd hole at a club Brian is pretending is called Mountain Farm. I'm not even going to explain it again. You really need to see it.

Obviously the 7th at Atherstone is in there, possibly as the 2nd but that's not set in stone. There's still plenty of room for competition.

So many golf courses......... ;D
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2014, 09:15:22 PM »
I hate to do it to a course I really enjoy but the 14th at Waveland in Des Moines, IA is truly horrible, at least from the back tee.  



The worst part about it is that the hole sits on interesting rolling land and has a terrific green with some severe slopes.  Both features are terrific on a short par 4 of about 340 yards.

 All of the problems with the hole exist because of balls landing in the houses to the left of the fairway.   When I was a kid, they converted the hole to par 3, creating a tee shown in the oval and a second tee between the 150 yard bushes (that are now trees).  

Later, they returned the hole to par 4 and built a huge fence to the left of the fairway which follows the yellow line on the picture. To further protect homes, they left trees in place left of the tee box.  From the back tee you need to start your shot on the line shown in orange.  In other words you need to hook the ball about 30 yards to get it back in the fairway. The right edge of the fairway slopes left to right so you need to hook it all the way back to keep it in the corridor. Otherwise, you face a blind punch shot from a low spot in adjoining fairway that must go under the trees, cover the hill and then be judged correctly through rough.  Even that set up might not be bad if there were an option to dink a short iron leaving a 170 yard approach shot.  Unfortunately the fairway does not go back that far and so you have to hit such a shot into the rough and avoid the tee boxes that sit in exactly the spot where you would otherwise layup.  

If you are playing someone who hits it left to right, this tee is the time to press in every manner possible.  

I would note that from the white tee (about 320 yards), the hole is actually quite good.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 09:22:14 PM by Jason Topp »

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2014, 07:15:44 AM »
Jason,

If I've got this right, the hole is ruined just for the sack of going back twenty yards. If so, cracking example of length length being promoted over quality. Never mind whethet it's good or bad, if I pay my money I want to get every possible yard.  ;D
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2014, 11:10:10 AM »
Jason,

If I've got this right, the hole is ruined just for the sack of going back twenty yards. If so, cracking example of length length being promoted over quality. Never mind whethet it's good or bad, if I pay my money I want to get every possible yard.  ;D

When I play the hole (once every 5 years or so), I do play from that back tee just for the experience.