Copperhead

[Rob Marshall]

So I'm in Clearwater and I played Copperhead today and Streamsong Blue tomorrow. I haven't seen much here on the Copperhead course. I personally like it a lot. You hit every club in the bag. Greens could have a little more undulation to them but they're interesting. Nice elevation changes for a Florida course. I think it's a good challenging test of golf that players of all skill level can enjoy. Any opinions?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I stayed at Innisbruck for a week 30 years ago and still remember the Copperhead Course.  I enjoyed the terrain and especially liked the par threes.  It is a wonderful course and seems to have gotten better.

[Randy Thompson]

Rob,
I was in Tampa in early spring and toured Cooperhead one day and Steamsong the next. My view on copperhead fits your. A solid course for Florida and looked fun to play but I thought it could be improved for the general public by breaking out the chainsaw. Steamsong is an entire different ball game and really knocks it out of the park. Too bad you couldn´t play both courses, it will make you want to go back in the future and play both in one day or at least go back and play the red. You like movements in greens you willl get all you want in Steamsong! Have fun and let me know how many shirts you buy at Steamsong!

[Jeff_Brauer]

I've played Copperhead several times, once with Larry Packard, who took great pride in it being a course resort golfers could enjoy, but still able to host a tour event.  From what I read, the tour pros love it, too.  Haven't checked to see if they tear it up any more than other tour courses, but not sure anyone cares.

The first year of my career, we made a trip down there to see it, with my bosses being very impressed with the idea of the normally functional tees actually be artistic puzzle pieces, not unlike what Mackenzie did for bunkers.  (Packard also has very artistic bunkers there, too)  I have used a few of those style tees over the years, and am designing a course full of them on my China project.  Seems to me like the 20's retro era finishes, the 70's retro era might be the next big thing.....in any case, Copperhead is a course to emulate in many ways.

[Ben Kodadek]

Jeff,

I'd say it holds up pretty well to scoring.       

SCORE
2014    John Senden    277 (-7)
2013    Kevin Streelman    274 (-10)
2012    Luke Donald    271 (-13)
2011    Gary Woodland    269 (-15)
2010    Jim Furyk            271 (-13)
2009    Retief Goosen    276 (-8)
2008    Sean O’Hair    280 (-4)
2007    Mark Calcavecchia274 (-10)
2006    K.J. Choi            271 (-13)
2005    Carl Pettersson    275 (-9)
2004    Vijay Singh      266 (-18)
2003    Retief Goosen    272 (-12)
2002    K.J. Choi            267 (-17)
2000    John Huston    271 (-13)

[Daniel Jones]

I played both Copperhead and the Island course at Innisbrook this weekend. Thoroughly enjoyed both, although my scorecards would probably disagree. As noted, nice elevation changes on both courses with a few blind shots tossed in as well. The Island starts off with a bang, then got a little boring on the back nine through a real estate development currently under construction. Things pick up again at the closing trio of holes which were great. I found Copperhead to be a little more balanced but also enjoyed its front 9 better.

Particularly memorable was the 4th on the Island, a par3 with a cypress tree standing in a bunker short of the green and directly in the line of play. It wasn't until I got to the green having played out to the left that I realized the tree was well short and really of no concern. Also enjoyed the long par-5 5th on Copperhead, though it was a beast playing into the wind. In addition to his trademark tee boxes, it's clear Mr. Packard liked bunkers which challenged the player's perception of distance, with many set back well short of the greens. The rough was also quite thick causing a few lost balls that shouldn't have been, which is never any fun.

For years I've been told that the Island was the better of the two courses even though its Copperhead that we see on TV each year. While I'm not sure I can give the edge to one course or the other, I will say the two combined for a great weekend of golf.

[K Rafkin]

Good timing

Ill be south FL for thanksgiving + a few days.  Ill defiantly be returning to Streamsong and am considering checking out the Copperhead course while im up there.  For many years the copperhead course has played an important role in "short hitters" ability to qualify for the US open.  The shorter hitters also flock to and rave about the valspar. 

Is the side trip to tampa from Streamsong worth it to tackle the Copperhead?

[Daniel Jones]

I'd say its definitely worth playing, though I'd suggest bookending your trip with it either at the beginning or end. You're probably looking at around a 4 hour round trip from SS.

[Rob Marshall]

Two weeks ago I played Streamsong and Copperhead. Copperhead was in pretty good shape. Tee to green Copperhead will be slower and softer than Streansong for sure. It won't beat you up but I think it's a pretty good test.

[Martin Toal]

Another fan here. Attractive playable course and vastly better than most of the Orlando tourist fare.

[Terry Lavin]

Terrific golf course and a nice, relatively affordable resort at Innisbrook.

[Mark Fedeli]

Does anyone know what they are planning to do with the upcoming restoration they keep mentioning on TV? They said they were bringing it back to its roots—in what ways was the course different in 1972? Hopefully it includes removing all that rough that surrounds every single bunker.

[Howard Riefs]

Does anyone know what they are planning to do with the upcoming restoration they keep mentioning on TV? They said they were bringing it back to its roots—in what ways was the course different in 1972? Hopefully it includes removing all that rough that surrounds every single bunker.

"The six-month restorative work will take place from May through October this year and includes replacing all fairways and rough, rebuilding each green, and reshaping bunkers to stay true to Packard’s masterful design."

... Wadsworth Golf Construction Company – which was the original course builder – has been engaged to oversee the project work. Each green will be rebuilt to United States Golf Association specifications with TifEagle Bermuda grass, while several will be restored to their original size to allow for additional pin placements. Fairways will be replaced with Celebration Bermuda grass and a number of viewing areas around the greens will be modified to allow for larger tournament galleries in the future."


http://www.pgatour.com/news/2015/03/12/copperhead-enhancement.html

[Mark Fedeli]

"The six-month restorative work will take place from May through October this year and includes replacing all fairways and rough, rebuilding each green, and reshaping bunkers to stay true to Packard’s masterful design."

Thanks, Howard. I had seen that article but am still curious if there were any stark differences between when the course opened and how it is now. The article mentions reshaping the bunkers and expanding the greens, but it doesn't say if that's an effort to replicate the original or simply to reenforce the course for professional tournament play. I haven't played it, but on TV it looks like it would be vastly improved by having a lot less rough around the greens and bunkers. Without playability changes like that, it doesn't seem like the renovated product will be all that different from what's there now.

[Joe Leenheer]

Does anyone know what they are planning to do with the upcoming restoration they keep mentioning on TV? They said they were bringing it back to its roots—in what ways was the course different in 1972? Hopefully it includes removing all that rough that surrounds every single bunker.

"The six-month restorative work will take place from May through October this year and includes replacing all fairways and rough, rebuilding each green, and reshaping bunkers to stay true to Packard’s masterful design."

... Wadsworth Golf Construction Company – which was the original course builder – has been engaged to oversee the project work. Each green will be rebuilt to United States Golf Association specifications with TifEagle Bermuda grass, while several will be restored to their original size to allow for additional pin placements. Fairways will be replaced with Celebration Bermuda grass and a number of viewing areas around the greens will be modified to allow for larger tournament galleries in the future."


http://www.pgatour.com/news/2015/03/12/copperhead-enhancement.html

Great to here Wadsworth GCC will be involved. Wadsworth & Packard started both their careers together....I'm actually at the course where the Wadsworth GCC started. It was one of if not Packard's first 18-Hole design (I believe he was working simultaneously on another).

Our greens are some of the best in the area. Nothing fancy, but deceptively challenging. Packard used sloped green sites to deceive players. If you have uphill putts all day you'd think the greens were slow....downhill and you may be chipping after you breath on it. Really forces you to control your shots into the greens.

Packard's design philosophy/style was more about ease of care and challenging the pros while allowing high handicappers a fighting chance. Other the free form tee boxes (which he is credited for popularizing), does anyone know of other signature Packard stylings?
-free form tees
-double dogleg
-course routed north to south (avoid sun)
-trouble on the left (avoid slicers)
-

[jeffwarne]

Does anyone know what they are planning to do with the upcoming restoration they keep mentioning on TV? They said they were bringing it back to its roots—in what ways was the course different in 1972? Hopefully it includes removing all that rough that surrounds every single bunker.

"The six-month restorative work will take place from May through October this year and includes replacing all fairways and rough, rebuilding each green, and reshaping bunkers to stay true to Packard’s masterful design."

... Wadsworth Golf Construction Company – which was the original course builder – has been engaged to oversee the project work. Each green will be rebuilt to United States Golf Association specifications with TifEagle Bermuda grass, while several will be restored to their original size to allow for additional pin placements. Fairways will be replaced with Celebration Bermuda grass and a number of viewing areas around the greens will be modified to allow for larger tournament galleries in the future."


http://www.pgatour.com/news/2015/03/12/copperhead-enhancement.html

deceptively challenging. Packard used sloped green sites to deceive players. If you have uphill putts all day you'd think the greens were slow....downhill and you may be chipping after you breath on it. Really forces you to control your shots into the greens.

Great quote-seems so obvious-but seems common sense isn't so common anymore
My number one complaint with many modern greens is their consistent speed up and own hill
Because putts are fast from both directions they require little if any judgement, a small, easier to execute stroke, and the penalty for a mishit is miniscule.

[Brent Hutto]

My number one complaint with many modern greens is their consistent speed up and own hill
Because putts are fast from both directions they require little if any judgement, a small, easier to execute stroke, and the penalty for a mishit is miniscule.

When stated that way, it's easy to see why golfers vastly prefer putting on fast greens to slow ones. I've maintained through all of the continuing green speed discussion on this forum that putting on fast greens (not Stimping 14 fast but speeds in the 11's and 12's) is just plain easier and more enjoyable than putting on slow greens.

Our dormant grass has come out of dormancy the past week or so and after a winter of putting on greens that were fairly quick, this weekend they were noticably slower. Still not super grainy but on the slow side. I made the comment to my playing partners yesterday that maybe slow greens wouldn't be so tough to putt on if they stayed slow all the time and we got used to them. They looked at me like I was crazy and I suspect they are correct.

[jeffwarne]

My number one complaint with many modern greens is their consistent speed up and down hill
Because putts are fast from both directions they require little if any judgement, a small, easier to execute stroke, and the penalty for a mishit is miniscule.

When stated that way, it's easy to see why golfers vastly prefer putting on fast greens to slow ones. I've maintained through all of the continuing green speed discussion on this forum that putting on fast greens (not Stimping 14 fast but speeds in the 11's and 12's) is just plain easier and more enjoyable than putting on slow greens.

Our dormant grass has come out of dormancy the past week or so and after a winter of putting on greens that were fairly quick, this weekend they were noticably slower. Still not super grainy but on the slow side. I made the comment to my playing partners yesterday that maybe slow greens wouldn't be so tough to putt on if they stayed slow all the time and we got used to them. They looked at me like I was crazy and I suspect they are correct.

Let's lengthen our course,  plant trees and grow rough to make it harder, then level and speed up our greens to make them easier, and above all get our bunkers consistent
Contradictions abound
oh and
"play it forward"

[Brent Hutto]

My number one complaint with many modern greens is their consistent speed up and down hill
Because putts are fast from both directions they require little if any judgement, a small, easier to execute stroke, and the penalty for a mishit is miniscule.

When stated that way, it's easy to see why golfers vastly prefer putting on fast greens to slow ones. I've maintained through all of the continuing green speed discussion on this forum that putting on fast greens (not Stimping 14 fast but speeds in the 11's and 12's) is just plain easier and more enjoyable than putting on slow greens.

Our dormant grass has come out of dormancy the past week or so and after a winter of putting on greens that were fairly quick, this weekend they were noticably slower. Still not super grainy but on the slow side. I made the comment to my playing partners yesterday that maybe slow greens wouldn't be so tough to putt on if they stayed slow all the time and we got used to them. They looked at me like I was crazy and I suspect they are correct.

Let's lengthen our course,  plant trees and grow rough to make it harder, then level and speed up our greens to make them easier, and above all get our bunkers consistent
Contradictions abound
oh and
"play it forward"

Well if we put it to a vote I'd vote "Aye" to fast, smooth greens and well maintained bunkers and "No" to longer courses and thicker rough. Agnostic on trees, I can go either way depending on where the course is.

Oops, seems I've just pretty much described my home course. Go figure.