BALLYHACK GC hole by hole (new ninth hole see reply 345)

[Jason Thurman]

What's the carry distance to clear the bunker on 9?

As mentioned earlier, I don't feel the intimidation at the first tee that others feel at Ballyhack. However, the 9th might be one of the 10 most uncomfortable driving holes I've ever played. It just looks like there's nowhere to hit the ball. The smart play here might be something like 3i-5i-wedge.

[Jim Sherma]

Catch-up time again. This is a fun thread and is fitting for a fun course.

The stretch from 7 through 9 is the least compelling stretch on the course for me. They are all good holes with some good stuff happening but compared to other stretches on the course they are somewhat less compelling for me.

#7: I would vote this as the hole most likely to be seen on a course that wasn't named Ballyhack. Good par-3 that is visually a breather compared to the rest of what preceded it. All in all a solid hole that gets lost in the shuffle as it has nothing to really stick out like so many other holes on the course. I'm guessing that in repeated plays the strategy becomes trying to throw a shot at the left center of the green and if you don't miss next to the pin just try to two-putt and walk away. Missing right appears to be where big numbers lie.

#8: Awkward hole for me. I think the left side is the way to go for me. The right fairway would be more tempting if there wasn't lost ball type gunch on the right side of the fairway over there. Also, unless you really can get the ball up towards the green on the right I don't think the right fairway leaves any better a shot than the left fairway and with more risk or at least visual uncertainty. I wonder if the slope on the left fairway was left as steep as it is in order to incent players to play right in order to not have a wedge shot off of a downhill lie? Real pretty green site but the hole is pretty far down my personal list on the course.

#9: Strange hole. From the back few tee boxes the tee shot is pretty simply to leave it short of the bunker and just not screw up. The right side of the fairway is preferred as Tommy said but the left side is not that bad. After your second the shot into a tough green complex is what makes the hole. I feel that approaching from the right side of the fairway is easier than the left as I think you have more slopes to play directly into. the green has a couple of tiers and any shot that doesn't stay up on the front of the green will roll and roll back towards you.

At the George Cup I played the front tees in the third nine and blew it over the bunkers leaving myself 122 to the pin from the right side of the fairway. From there I landed on the front right fringe and after one bounce up onto the green it proceeded to spin it back all the way to the drain seen in the fairway at the bottom left of this photo.



This stretch is very challenging for me to score well on. It involves very good golf and shots that are more in line with what you would see on other good courses.  

[Jim Sherma]

I also wanted to mention the routing on the front nine. As a player and having no real expertise when it comes to what makes a good routing or not I must say that Ballyhack's front nine is one of the few courses that really stand out in my mind on this dimension. The way that the course uses the exposed high points that hold the second and fifth greens is really nice. Leading the players down into the stream flats on 6-8 and then back along the ridge on 9 is really well done in my opinion. The last routing that really blew me away was Lancaster's front nine and how you just popped up at 9's tees after wending around the property and walking off of 8's green.

[Tommy Williamsen]

What's the carry distance to clear the bunker on 9?

As mentioned earlier, I don't feel the intimidation at the first tee that others feel at Ballyhack. However, the 9th might be one of the 10 most uncomfortable driving holes I've ever played. It just looks like there's nowhere to hit the ball. The smart play here might be something like 3i-5i-wedge.

Wade may know better, but depending on the tee 260-280 I would think.

[Andy Hughes]

One feature on 8 that has not been mentioned is the hill at the front right corner of the green.  With the pin in the right corner, it makes it much more tempting (for me) to hit up the right fairway and then have a little pitch into that hill that will make the ball die and move left.
This means you don't have to hit over the bunker and you have a built-in backstop of sorts.  Hitting towards that right side corner is pretty scary looking from the left fairway.
Wade, Tommy--do many people use that hill?

[Kevin Lynch]

Here's the aerial of the 9th with a few comments:



From the Ballyhack tees, it is roughly 255 yards to reach the middle FW Bunker and ~275 to carry it.  Obviously, it would be less from the Middle Tees, but the issue simply isn't the length of the carry, but the size of the landing area (Yellow Circle) beyond the bunker.  To the right is still a patch of heavy rough and to the left is a severe sideslope with patchy ground cover.  It's simply too risky a trade-off.

From the beginning of the center FW bunker leaves 270 to the green.

I'll add some more comments later but thought this may help with the visual of the overall hole.

[Kevin Lynch]

Kevin, Scott, Tim:

Great analysis of the eighth. Each time I played it, knowing that I have a tendency to push lay-up shots, I aimed right with tolerable success. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned so far is that even shots played to the right fairway and pushed seem likely to bounce off the hillside into the fairway. The right fairway looks riskier but finding the fairway is the easy part. The risk lies in facing the dreaded 60-yard approach shot.

I think the hole will still play essentially the same even if the sycamore one day dies.

JB -

I've never been comfortable telling people to trust the kick off the hillside because it is hit-or-miss.  I've hit shots very right which I've found in the fairway and others marginally right that have disappeared.  I've not been able to determine exactly how far right is safe (and much will depend on the trajectory and strength of your ball flight).  I think it would be great to spend a day perched on the ninth tee and study the roll out of various tee shots on the 8th.

As Tim pointed out, it may be counter-intuitive that the right side is the "easier" play for big hitters.  I'm still torn every time I stand on that tee.  From the longer tees, I've even tried the "aim directly at the Sycamore" strategy, knowing that my ball rarely goes where I aim, and hoping my random hook/pull/push/slice finds one of the FW options

[Kevin Lynch]

One feature on 8 that has not been mentioned is the hill at the front right corner of the green.  With the pin in the right corner, it makes it much more tempting (for me) to hit up the right fairway and then have a little pitch into that hill that will make the ball die and move left.
This means you don't have to hit over the bunker and you have a built-in backstop of sorts.  Hitting towards that right side corner is pretty scary looking from the left fairway.
Wade, Tommy--do many people use that hill?

Andy - I think you can use this as a kick-slope, but I don't think there's really any way to avoid having to carry the bunkers.  The only way to do that is to drive the green almost pin high, which I've done from the 319 tees.  But that really doesn't leave you a great trade-off, because while you may not have to go over the bunkers, the whole green is sloped away from you at that angle and it is difficult to stop the ball.

I used to think the right fairway was a little odd because there didn't seem to be as great a reward as you'd expect for making the heroic carry.  But as Tim pointed out, I think the benefit of the right fairway (for longer hitters) is that you can eliminate the concern of running through the fairway and makes it an easier fairway to hit & hold.  But unless you're comfortable with the delicate 40-70 yard pitch, it doesn't necessarily pay off.

[Kevin Lynch]

Lester has some interesting ideas for this hole as time makes erosion less of an issue.

WW

Any chance Lester can elaborate (or you can share?)

[Kevin Lynch]

The discussion of the bunker shapes makes me think of what might be the most discussion-worthy aspect of Ballyhack - the balance between aesthetics and playability.

Like Jim, I have been in the "fingers" of the bunkers at Ballyhack and had virtually no shot to advance the ball. From one of the fairway bunkers at 10, I actually had to play out sideways further into the rough as I couldn't get a stance and swing in any other direction. It's a pretty severe penalty on a course that doesn't lack for severe penalties.

At the same time, the rugged shaping of the bunkers also fits the site well and is a big part of how the course's aesthetic defines itself. They're stunningly presented, but arguably push the boundaries of playability from certain lies and locations. Of course, you always have the option of just staying out of them and, to be fair, some of the bunkers are far riskier than others when it comes to the probability of catching an awful lie.

Ballyhack, with its stunning surroundings, open vistas, and superb shaping, is as handsome a course as I've played. Many of the same features that make it beautiful also make it very difficult, and it feels like a course that walks the edge between beauty and penalty on a frequent basis.

I think that's the part that will always make it difficult for Ballyhack to ever get universal recognition from raters.  The punitive edge of the course can cloud the perception of raters and lead to polarizing opinions.  I played Ballyhack and Kinloch in the same week, and left thinking Ballyhack was the superior design - more memorable, more fun, more variety, etc.  Yet Kinloch is Top 20 in Golfweek Modern lists and Ballyhack doesn't even crack the Top 200. 

I wouldn't mind discussing this more.  But, to avoid taking the focus away from the features of the various individual holes, perhaps it may be better to have "macro level" discussions of topics such as these at the conclusion of the tour (unless they specifically apply to the individual holes).   (But if others would like to discuss deeper, I'm certainly not going to object).

[Carl Rogers]

This hole plays in the opposite direction from no. 2 and often into the wind.

For a short hitter, like myself, the drive is not much of a problem.  But the second shot is, as the fairway slopes decidedly right (like the 8th hole).  My second shot is usually in the right rough.  I am not long enough to hit the second fairway farther up the fairway.

The approach shot must be hit with precision to hit the correct level of the green where the pin is cut.  A putt from the upper to the lower level can (and will) travel 25 yards off the green down the hill.  Putting from the lower level to the upper level is usually a 3 putt. The bunker right is steep and severe.

The golfer can find him/herself subjected to a series of calamities on this hole while not hitting really bad shots.

Should this hole be shorter and a par 4?  Keep the same green site?

[Carl Rogers]

from my perspective the play-ability of the front nine can be summarized as follows:
hole 1: intimidating drive that one can probably get used to followed by extremely severe up hill approach, epic death penalty false front
hole 2: very playable for all, visually stunning
hole 3: hard, incredible green
hole 4: hard ....  viscous & devious (maybe less so if one could play it every week)
hole 5: ease of drive does not provide comfort from brutal approach
hole 6: tee shot control of direction and length required, a subtle green  ... hard to get the short approach shot close
hole 7: fair and nicely benched into the hill
hole 8: fairway plays more narrow than it looks, beautiful green setting (how long will the Sycamore live?)
hole 9: stunning view of the front nine the entire length compensates from potential card wrecker on every shot, strong nerves needed

[JBovay]

As mentioned earlier, I don't feel the intimidation at the first tee that others feel at Ballyhack. However, the 9th might be one of the 10 most uncomfortable driving holes I've ever played. It just looks like there's nowhere to hit the ball. The smart play here might be something like 3i-5i-wedge.

I think this is a really good strategy for playing the ninth. For me, the chances of reaching it in two are much too low for me to take out the driver on my next visit.

The more I think about the eighth, I realize that the sycamore and the slopes serve to widen the playing corridor: to make the appropriate target line far away from the center-line creek. (Kevin, I appreciate your comment about the hill on the right.)

Lester has some interesting ideas for this hole as time makes erosion less of an issue.

WW

Any chance Lester can elaborate (or you can share?)

One interesting idea would be to eliminate all of the center rough, which would accentuate the need to play away from the creek.

[Jonathan Mallard]

Likewise, to catch up...

#7. Possibly the most straightforward hole on the course. As Jim said, aim for the left third of the green, or the quadrant of the pin, and take 3, or a depth charge. There are some ridges, but they are not as pronounced as the ones on the 17th. Right is dead.

#8. I think this is the most controversial hole on the course, and the discussion generated so far reflects that. The left fairway slopes further right than one imagines, and the right fairway is a decent carry on an unknown line and leaves a short shot from a tight lie that leaves little margin for error.

To discuss #8 further, I went back to the State Open data from this year to look for anomalies in the data related to this hole. I did find some interesting ones. While 'only' the 8th hardest hole, it saw the second fewest pars - only #4 had less (163 to 160) and actually had more bogeys recorded than #4 (114 to 113). Maybe more later on this. It did have more birdies, and not the volume of double or worse. As such, I think that there will continue to be much discussion of the hole. For the record, I like it.

#9. For me, not much to discuss here. It's a driver, a solid layup, and a short iron to a green that you had better get your distance correct, or you are working hard to avoid a three putt. I too like the trip back to the clubhouse along the ridge where you can reflect on the holes that you've played already.

[Tommy Williamsen]

#10 par five  595,569, 508, 462

Number ten is really special. It may be my favorite hole on the course.  I’d be curious to hear what Lester has to say, but it seems to have been designed by nature.  It is dogleg right that is bordered by a deep chasm.  It is reachable for many if there is nerve, length, and execution.  Tee it up and think birdie, hit a loose second of third shot and a write seven on the card.  I don’t see many guys play it all the way back. I will play it either at 569 or 508.  From 508 it is almost reachable for me, but my second shot needs to be pretty accurate.  The par fives are as varied a set as I have ever seen.  They are some of the most fun holes on a course fill with fun.

This first picture displays the entire hole from the clubhouse.


View from the tee.  The fairway slopes a bit from left to right and plays a little downhill.  Hit a little low runner and it will go a long way.  Most players hit the tee shot to the corner of the dogleg.  


From here you can see the natural curve of the hole.


View from just short of the dogleg’s corner.


View of the second shot. To the left is fairway that runs all the way to the hole.  There is a lay up to the right that will leave a 100-120 yard shot.


Lay up and this is the third shot.


Hit is left and you can reach the green, or at least get close.  See my ball about 20 yards short of the green.


This was my third shot that day.


Looking back.  This picture does not show the depth of the chasm very well.

[Ronald Montesano]

hole 9: stunning view of the front nine the entire length compensates from potential card wrecker on every shot, strong nerves needed

Pay less attention to the views and you won't wreck your scorecard...

[Carl Rogers]

I would have thought this hole to play under par in the State Open.  Perhaps Wade knows.....

Very fair hole for the short straight hitter.  The long aggressive and inconsistent player may have some soul searching because, as usual for Ballyhack, the off line shot offers limited at best (or flat out lucky) chance of recovery.  Pins are accessible.  I do not believe I have played the hole with a front right pin (I assume that would be the most difficult).  Not the most difficult green to putt.

As with all holes at Ballyhack, stunning views in all directions.

[Lou_Duran]

To discuss #8 further, I went back to the State Open data from this year to look for anomalies in the data related to this hole. I did find some interesting ones. While 'only' the 8th hardest hole, it saw the second fewest pars - only #4 had less (163 to 160) and actually had more bogeys recorded than #4 (114 to 113). Maybe more later on this. It did have more birdies, and not the volume of double or worse. As such, I think that there will continue to be much discussion of the hole. For the record, I like it.

Is it possible to learn how many rules decisions were made during this tournament and the average time to play the last round (better yet, how long did it take for the final groups to play)?  How many 3-3 decisions?  How did these compare to other tournaments run by the sponsoring organization?

Kevin Lynch,

Do raters look at a course that much differently than non-raters?  Most golfers I know, a good number who have no clue what Golfweek or Golf Digest ask their raters to consider, like variety, good greens, some turf on the tees and the fairways, challenge without being overly punitive (what some here derisively refer to as "fair"), hazards which offer some opportunity to recover, not losing very many golf balls, nice aesthetics, a warm, welcoming environment.  They also don't want to pay a lot of money for their golf, but that's a different issue.

Bh is a very difficult course particularly for the bogey golfer.  That it is polarizing should not be a surprise.  Some folks like to get their butts beat; others prefer a more "playable" experience.  In some respects, though I only played it twice on back-to-back days, it reminded me a bit of Prairie Dunes in that no matter how well you might be playing, in the back of your mind you know that a couple of blow-up holes are waiting for you.  I can see how it is a course that provides great satisfaction from playing shots well even if the scorecard is nothing to write home about.

[Jason Thurman]

I think that's the part that will always make it difficult for Ballyhack to ever get universal recognition from raters.  The punitive edge of the course can cloud the perception of raters and lead to polarizing opinions.

I get what you're saying, but is it really "clouding" the raters' perception? The punitive edge of the course is real. Punitive edges are also generally frowned upon, as they hurt playability for the bulk of players.

I think Ballyhack's reputation is completely fair, with plenty of detractors and plenty of accolades. If a random sampling of 1000 golfers were to play it, I suspect a lot of them would hate it for being too difficult and punishing. A lot of them would also consider it one of the best courses they've played, thanks to the scenery and originality of the holes and incredible conditions and general prevalence of swashbuckling shots. Neither group's perception is truly clouded. Different golfers simply prioritize different things.

Is Ballyhack a really beautiful course with tons of variety and fun, or is it an unwalkable brute that eats balls and punishes weak players?

The answer is "Yes." And it's on full display at 10, where a reasonably strong player can make a bold play equally likely to set up an eagle or a double bogey, while a weak player might get stuck in the ravine right, pitch out into a bunker with no escape available, and just walk back to the clubhouse to start drinking while his group plays the final 8.

[Kevin Lynch]

There is just so much to talk about on the 9th hole, which many have touched upon:

- Routing - Like Jonathan, Jim & Carl said, I love the fact that this hole allows you to recap the entire front nine with a view of every hole at some point along the ninth.  As I mentioned earlier, the land on the front has a near mystical quality for me, and I still get goosebumps every time I cross Pitzer Road.  It's neat that the longer trip to the first tee gives you a great preview and closes with the vistas along #9.  

- Drive - I am in the same boat as Jason, as this is one of the more uncomfortable tee shots for me.  Depending on the tees and wind conditions, I can hit anything from from full driver to needing to throttle back on a hybrid.  The good news is that the left area is more vast than you think and can contain even very big pulls or snap hooks.  The bad news is that you can draw a very bad lie on the hillside which could make it difficult to even carry the first FW bunker and attached rough (i.e. get within 200 yards or so).  As for the right side, I've found and played numerous recoveries from the cliff-side over the years, usually amusing Andy Hughes in the process.  But you're better off missing by a lot than a little, as I've played second shots from the 8th tee several times.

- 2nd Shot - The toughest aspect for me is that most lies in the fairway seems to be either slightly downhill or below my feet, unless you can flirt with the cliff and end up on the right side of the fairway.  This makes for a very uncomfortable 2nd shot for me, as it is blind, and the lie almost requires you to hit a fade (and usually off a very tight lie, as well).  Combine that with a normal head wind or cross wind and the pronounced left to right slope of the landing area, and this is one shot on the course I wish Lester would reconsider.  The fairway is 35 yards in the 200-100 yard range, but the lies on the left are very random & severe and the right is a severe fall-off.  

Even if you lay up just short of the FW bunker, you still need to to hit a shot ~ 200 yards to get to the very wide areas (again, off a tight uneven lie and into the wind).  For a shorter hitter, this is a very difficult 2nd (and for a longer hitter as well).  If the left hillside were a little more predictable and routinely could be used as a kickboard, I'd think this was a fairer shot.  However, I have seen balls stop dead on the hill while others have kicked back to the fairway as expected.  Perhaps this left side is an area that will change over the years as the erosion control rough is softened.

- Approach - I haven't been as intimidated by this approach as others.  Perhaps it's because I hit more stray shots than Tommy (no doubt about that), but I've discovered just how much forgiveness there is on the left side of this green.  I've hit shots that landed even left of the greenside bunker that have found their way back to the putting surface (this hillside has generally been more predictable).  Also, if the pin is on the lower right, you really don't have to fire anywhere near it (and flirt with the more severe right greenside bunker).  There is a left-to-right slope on the left middle of the green that can be used to bring balls back to the lower right.  Also, as far as greenside bunkers go, the front left bunker has enough slope that balls tend to collect in the middle, leaving a relatively straightforward explosion.

- Green - This is one of my favorite features of this hole, as I love using the slopes and contours as backstops and playing unusual recoveries.  Any time there is a lower pin, I inevitably ignore the distance to the hole.  I am always looking to play a running shot that will go up the slope and then come back to the hole.  I'm amazed how many times I see people who are 20-30 yards short of the green trying to hit a gap wedge or lob wedge that will land just on the front of the green and roll up to the hole (from an uphill lie).  So many times the ball pops up more than expected or is heavy, lands short and rolls all the way back to them.  I much prefer the margin of error of a bump and run (or putter), with my only goal to ensure the ball gets past the hole. If it goes 10 feet past the hole, it usually comes back 10 feet from the back slope.  If it goes 20 feet past the hole, it usually comes back 21 or 22 feet.  

Carl mentioned that putts from the upper to lower level can roll 25 yards down the fairway, but that's only if you simply consider the traditional "die it at the crest" direct route to the pin.  The best way to get a putt close from the upper-to-lower level is to aim at the left middle of the green and use the counter-slope there.  



From the upper tier, the traditional "die at the crest" approach (Red Line) will often run off the green as there is not very much counter-slope on the front of the lower tier.  But if you can die a ball anywhere left middle (Yellow Line), it will trickle down to the lower level with less velocity somewhere in the middle of the tier, which will leave you a reasonable chance for a two putt. 

The Blue Line shows my preferred method of approach for shorter shots into the green.

[Chris DeNigris]

To discuss #8 further, I went back to the State Open data from this year to look for anomalies in the data related to this hole. I did find some interesting ones. While 'only' the 8th hardest hole, it saw the second fewest pars - only #4 had less (163 to 160) and actually had more bogeys recorded than #4 (114 to 113). Maybe more later on this. It did have more birdies, and not the volume of double or worse. As such, I think that there will continue to be much discussion of the hole. For the record, I like it.

  I can see how it is a course that provides great satisfaction from playing shots well even if the scorecard is nothing to write home about.

For me this is the essence of BH. In the rare occasion I can avoid a spate of doubles/others- well, that's great.  But most of the time it's completely irrelevant.  I'm always looking forward to the next hole's adventure.

[Kevin Lynch]

Lou / Jonathan / Jason,

Great feedback and I think everyone summarized the perceptions of Ballyhack very well.  The discussion and passion involved with Ballyhack is why I love it.

Jonathan,

Your stats on the 8th hole are an example of what I find really interesting about Ballyhack.  Several holes can lead to a big number, but then when you reflect on the actual shot demands, you're surprised how attainable they are.  Think about the 1st hole, and if you've ever birdied that one, you think what a great feeling it is because you know what can happen to you (tee intimidation, false front, etc).  But if you were to recap it, you'd tell your buddy "I hit 3-wood, 9-iron to 8 feet and made the putt."  They may not be impressed and ask "Was it a real narrow hole?"  "No, fairway is 60 yards wide."  The same could be said for shorter holes like the 8th or 11th, but unless you've played enough times to see what can happen, it may not seem like much. 
(BTW - nothing will ever dilute the impressiveness of Lou Duran's famous Duece on the 12th).

Lou,

I think you nailed it with the statement "I can see how it is a course that provides great satisfaction from playing shots well even if the scorecard is nothing to write home about" which is what Chris echoed.

As for being overly punitive for a bogey golfer, I'd have to defer on that, because there are some many different types of those.  There are wild, long bogey golfers that could be eaten up, but there are also straight, short-hitting ones that could navigate their way around Ballyhack while avoiding the disasters (depending if they could navigate the few forced carries).  I think Tommy mentioned one of his bogey golfer friends loving the place.

Short-hitting bogey golfers may have wildly different perceptions than a shorter-hitting low handicap, simply because their scoring expectations are different.  For example, both Tommy & Carl mentioned the difficulty of the uphill approach on #5 because as 6 or lower handicaps, their expectation is to hit a green in regulation, which is tougher with a low trajectory.  But a bogey golfer might happily accept bouncing short and pitching up onto the green (with a big backstop).  Same goes for number 1, especially now that they put in the ring of rough to keep the false front from compounding the penalty.  Once they can get over the tee shot, they may not think it's a hard bogey at all.


Lou / Jason,

As for the rater question, I don't think the concerns about playability are unfounded.  But I think it's just human nature that those perceptions may tend to intrude on the rankings for other features and drag down the overall ranking more than would be reasonable.  I guess I have so much admiration for the design, variety, aesthetics, fun, firm & fast conditions,and atmosphere that I'm still surprised it can't overcome the playability questions, especially considering that there is quite a bit of room out there to navigate.  There are other well-regarded courses that have difficult conditions and still rate well.

You mentioned Prairie Dunes.  I haven't been there, but from the threads that were started around the NCAAs and a review of Google Earth imagery, it appears that Ballyhack provides much more fairway area and equally wide (if not wider) playing corridors between the nasty stuff.  Perhaps you can shed some comparative insight as to how much the unplayable areas intrude into your mind at the respective places.

But perhaps it is the random and absolute penalties that sometimes occur at Ballyhack which stick with people more and make it feel more "unplayable" than the fairway width may suggest (look at the perceptions of #1 as an illustration).

Don't get me wrong, I wish Ballyhack would (or could) find a way to soften the absolute nature of some areas of the course.  As Lester alluded earlier, some of it is due to erosion control / environmental restrictions.  And the playability has fluctuated quite a bit over the course of several years' visits, from not even entering my mind on some visits to being an overwhelming concern on others. It seems most people on this thread still adore the course passionately even with the concerns raised - I just imagine how amazing the course would be if some of the edge could be softened.  Not even eliminated - just softened enough for me to find the ball and try some stupid 1 out of 20 heroic recovery shot.  I even think the occasional "rub of the green" lies in the bunkers would be accepted more if the golfer hadn't just breathed a sigh of relief for avoiding the lost-ball rough.

[Kevin Lynch]

Here's a link to the Virginia State Open Course Statistics from earlier this year:

http://www.ghintpp.com/vsga/TPPOnlineScoring/CourseStats.aspx?id=1376

A brief summary:
Hole  Rank  Avg
1       7        4.464
2       18      4.851 
3       9        3.456
4       1        4.564
5       11      4.372
6       14      4.206
7       10      3.390
8       8        4.461
9       13      5.235
                  39.000

10     15      5.193
11     6        4.484
12     3        4.536
13     12      3.259
14     2        4.553
15     16      5.173
16     4        4.527
17     17      3.075
18     5        4.522
                  39.308
                  78.308

[Kevin Lynch]

Here's the 10th Hole Aerial:



I drew these from the Ballyhack Tees (569 yards), which I believe often doubles as the end of the Practice Range.  You can see the Big Lick (595) way back between the cart path and Pitzer Road.  I tried these only once while having a particularly good driving day with my hickories (straight downwind), just to say that I did it once.  Just so you appreciate how firm and downhill the landing area is, I only had 270 in, so if you can get some burn on your tee shot, it will roll quite a bit.

The Yellow Line is the traditional 3 shot approach and the Orange Line is how a monster hitter may get home in two.  I drew the Green Line to highlight a speed slot that Lester built in starting roughly 70 yards out.  It you can hit a hard low shot, reaching this green is attainable, even from 270-280 yards.  It is a very tight neck, especially with the chasm to the right, but if you can hit the slot, you will be amazed how much you will run out. 

Depending on the maintenance at a point in time, you may be able to hit further left than the Green line and kick off the hillside towards the green.  The last George Cup, I did just that and ended up on the fringe.  Other times, the same shot has hung up, but still left an opportunity to pull off an awkward lie pitch to the green.

The Black Line represents my improper perception of the fairway line (until seeing this aerial) and explains why I have lost so many balls in the right rough over the years.  I will be aiming much more left in future visits.

[Lou_Duran]

ssssh on #12; even par over two days (representative of Bh- doubleB/eagle?).  4 over on 4, 14,15; 5 over on 18.  Par 5s are among my favorites: -2 best ball over two days; +4 for both rounds (with a day1 9 on 15).  How often is there a difference of six strokes from low to high score in a single round?

RE: Prairie Dunes, the only similarity to BH I was alluding to is how punitive some holes can be.  At PD it is due primarily to its unforgiving gunch that is in play on a normal day and impossible to avoid when the wind blows (which I am told is quite often, 35 to 40+ mph during my last visit).  It doesn't have the topography of Bh (though many of its tees and some of the greens are perched), it is a smaller course, and the fairways are quite a bit narrower.  I remember a mid-single digit national member who said he hadn't broken 80 in his many visits despite being just a few over par for 15-16 holes.  A blow-up hole or two always got in the way.  A far better match play course IMO than medal; ditto for Bh.  I would love to play Greensomes at Bh some day (foursomes with both players on each side driving the ball and alternating from there).