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Jason Thurman

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fourth hole posted
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2014, 08:47:06 AM »
Kevin, I agree with your take on the first hole. I won't argue that it isn't a difficult hole. It is. But compared with the rest of Ballyhack, it's really among the more manageable holes on the course. You could make a reasonably solid case that 1-2 is the easiest two hole stretch on the course. You'd probably be wrong - I'd say 6-7 and 10-11 are easier - but you wouldn't be crazy.


Moving on to the fourth, there's something about the landing zone that feels a bit awkward and forced to me. It's a big hole in a huge setting, and yet it feels like it has one of the narrower landing zones on the course. On a course as big and bold as Ballyhack, it almost feels like a "ran out of room" hole, at least for the first 250 yards. Oddly, I think I might like it better if the fairway were narrowed and the strip down the right eliminated and maintained as rough. It just feels like it's really easy for a marginal shot to end up lost in the ravine separating 4 from 3.

However, the approach into the green is pure brilliance. Even a short iron will bounce in and roll out if landed short, and my 9 iron approach careened through the green when I played it back in the spring. I haven't looked all that closely at the contours of the land on the hole after crossing the ravine; the green area doesn't appear, from the landing zone, to slope away from the approach shot. Visually, it looks like the green sits on a small knob above the areas of fairway fronting and trailing the putting surface. The shot, however, plays almost like the fronting fairway is on a small downslope. It makes for a deceptively difficult approach for the first timer or aerial golfer, but probably makes the approach easier for a shorter hitter with some experience around the course, as it lets him feed his ball out onto the green a little more easily.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Kevin Lynch

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—second hole posted
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2014, 09:01:52 AM »
#3  251, 211, 174, 143, 111

The third hole has one of the wilder greens on the course and has innumerable pin placements that range from relatively benign to fiendish.  Slope and undulation are difficult to see on pictures but this green has as much movement as any on the course.

View from up near the second green.




Seeing the mower obscured in the left bowl gives a decent idea of the amount of slope on this hole.  What's interesting on this hole is that it works as a short hole as well as a longer one.  

From the 111 and 143 yard distances, the severe segmentation of the green from easy (front left bowl), moderate (right half), to difficult (back left) makes for three distinct smaller targets.  But from the longer 211/254 yard tees, the immense size of the overall target makes it fair.  

What I really enjoy is the ability to play multiple recovery shots towards the bowl area.  In the 2013 George Cup, Chris Denigris & I were both in the bunker short of the bowl.  I played out left, he played out right, and we both ended up ~2 feet from the hole.  Likewise, if you end up on the front of the green (or just short). you could pitch into the bowl, or sling a putter into the high side of the bowl and have it wrap around.  If you end up on the back left when the pin is in the bowl, you generally can't stop the ball short if you aim directly at the hole, but you can elect several indirect routes to get close.  


EDIT:  Here's the aerial after the fact.  You can see the three different general pin positions which vary in difficulty.


« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 01:21:38 PM by Kevin Lynch »

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2014, 09:08:09 AM »
#5 par four 442,378,347,315

I love the fifth hole.  It has everything: various options off the tee, a tee shot that requires the correct distance, a fun but demanding second shot, and large but sloping green.

The fairway is a continuation of the second fairway.  The is blind, but so wide that missing it is almost impossible.  Most players like one side of the fairway more than the other.  One of the people I play with insists that the hole should be played from the right side.  I Like it from the left side.  I tend to get a flatter lie and like the angle into the green better.

View from a forward tee.


Close up from the same location


View from the top of the hill.  It just shows what lies ahead. The bunkers in the tee shot landing area have been resodded. Previously it was possible to lose a shot in the tall fescue that surrounded the bunkers.  When the bunker surrounds were cleared hundreds of balls were found.


The side view from the second fairway illustrates the uphill nature of the second shot.


Second shot from the right side of the fairway.  Guys who get a lot of height on the ball need to take one or two more clubs.  Guys like me who can no longer hit it high need to take more.


Second shot from the middle of the fairway.


Close up.  Any shot that does not make the green is repelled some twenty yards back down the fairway.


The green is two tiered with a fair amount of slope back to front and left side to right side.  The green will hold even one of my lower trajectory shots.


Looking back.






Number five is just a wonderful hole from any tee you play.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 04:06:02 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mark McKeever

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2014, 09:14:47 AM »
Tommy, having not played there, I wonder about that 5th tee shot.  The right side line looks like the harder shot visually...but the view from the second shot looks much more challenging.  I'm curious why your friend would prefer that line, it just looks like it invites more trouble no?

MM
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2014, 09:19:00 AM »
Tommy, having not played there, I wonder about that 5th tee shot.  The right side line looks like the harder shot visually...but the view from the second shot looks much more challenging.  I'm curious why your friend would prefer that line, it just looks like it invites more trouble no?

MM

Mark, the shot from the right is more difficult for me as well.  He hits the ball high and finds that the slope on the green works best for his little fade.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Lester George

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2014, 10:35:50 AM »
So far some fair and intriguing discussion about the course.  It does stand in my mind that the more you play the course, the more fun it becomes because it reveals a bunch of shot options and, while charming, makes you concentrate on hitting each shot.

Some observations.  1. The inclusion of the maintained rough (that's what we call the lush grass that isn't fairway) short of the green on number 1 was an observational change but there mostly for maintenance and pace of play.  The collection area was loaded with divots and it was obvious that the pace of play was disproportionate to the hole.  2. As we evolve, more and more bent grass will be incorporated around the approaches and greens to make more interesting shot and recoveries more flexible.  3. THE ONLY REASON FOR 90% OF THE MAINTAINED ROUGH (FECUE ANDS BLUEGRASS BLEND) WAS TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF THE LOCAL EROSION AND SEDIMENT CONTROL PERMITS WHEN WE BUILT THE COURSE.  WE WERE REQUIRED TO STABILIZE THE SLOPES, GREENS, BUNKERS AND FAIRWAYS WITH A "CONTAINMENT RING" OF SODDED GRASS IN ORDER TO STOP SILTATION.  IT WILL BE REPLACED OVER TIME, MOSTLY WITH BENT, WHICH WILL PROMOTE BALLS "ROLLING OUT" INTO HAZARDS.  4. This is the primary reason for the strip down the middle of number 4,  it prevented wash-out of the fairway into the creek below.  So, as any designer would do, we crafted it as a separator, established it as a guideline for the hole, and use it as an "arrester" of hot drives to allow a chance to stay on the hole.  Form follows function gentlemen.  4B. Number 4 is the hardest hole on the course for me if I am on the wrong tee.  5.  Number 3 green is difficult, but not more difficult than it needs to be.  6. I like many of Wades comments, especially about telling your group to play number 4 as a par 5.  I like Tommy taking his guest to different sets of tee during their 72 hole stay, why wouldn't we all do that?  7.  Number 2 is one of my favorite holes ever.  It was there the day I first rode the property and I new one day a green would sit right there.  I moved NO dirt to build it.

More later gentlemen.  Good start Tommy , Wade and all.

Lester     

Marc Haring

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2014, 10:38:27 AM »
Tommy, having not played there, I wonder about that 5th tee shot.  The right side line looks like the harder shot visually...but the view from the second shot looks much more challenging.  I'm curious why your friend would prefer that line, it just looks like it invites more trouble no?

MM

Mark, the shot from the right is more difficult for me as well.  He hits the ball high and finds that the slope on the green works best for his little fade.

Kind of sums up all that is good in a design of a hole. Too many courses just say hit the fairway/green or you lose!!

Kevin Lynch

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fourth hole posted
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2014, 11:00:37 AM »
Moving on to the fourth, there's something about the landing zone that feels a bit awkward and forced to me. It's a big hole in a huge setting, and yet it feels like it has one of the narrower landing zones on the course. On a course as big and bold as Ballyhack, it almost feels like a "ran out of room" hole, at least for the first 250 yards. Oddly, I think I might like it better if the fairway were narrowed and the strip down the right eliminated and maintained as rough. It just feels like it's really easy for a marginal shot to end up lost in the ravine separating 4 from 3.

You're not crazy, because you do actually run out of room, depending on the line you take.  This is more of a diagonal landing area than it appears from the tee.

Here's an aerial of the hole:



The black lines approximate where the various fairway tiers start.  From the top tier (blue line), you're looking at a roughly 210 yard approach.  From the 2nd tier (yellow), you're looking at 170-185, and if you get past the second drop, you'll usually get down to 135-150.

I drew the lines from the Ballyhack tees (447), but from the Ridge Tees (411) is usually where the "run out of room" comes into play. Normally, this is where the yellow line meets the rough (especially after you pass the first drop).  You may

From the Ballyhack tees, you run out of room at 280 yards, but if you're playing the Ridge tees, it's only 245 yards, so you need to aim more right, which may bring the center rough more into play.  But if you're up at those Ridge tees, it's only 220 yards to clear all the rough entirely.  When I play the Ridge tees, my main concern isn't the center rough, it's the left rough.

This hole exemplifies the various options and different strategies when you switch tees at Ballyhack.  The angle of attack and difficulties encountered are completely different simply by moving back one deck.  From the 441 tees, I'm aiming along the yellow line knowing that I'm less likely to go through the fairway and trying to get to the end of the upper fairway (perhaps rolling to the second tier).  From the Ridge Tees, I'm thinking 2nd / 3rd tier and aiming much further right.

You said that the landing area feels tight, but that's really just a mental block, because of the raised knob of rough in the center and the fact that you can't see the left fairway carved out along the upper tier.  Also, as you alluded, it feels tight simply relative to the grand scale of the overall hole.

Where the Blue Line runs out is roughly 45 yards wide.  Even at the narrowest point (the first black line), it is still 35 yards wide.  Once you reach the 2nd tier (yellow line), it's 50-60 yards wide.

I tend to ignore the right strip of fairway, but have been pleasantly surprised to find a poor tee shot with a second chance from there (albeit a very long second shot).  If you factor in that strip, the overall corridor is roughly 75 yards wide.

I agree with Wade about the center rough.  Initially, you may think of it as a centerline hazard because Lester put in a "redemption strip" of fairway along the right, but it's definitely not a split-fairway hole.  The center rough makes you think about the landing areas to the left which may not be obvious (especially from the back two sets of tees).  But, as I noted above, the rough can also fool you into going too far left if you're playing the middle tees or less, as you want to take a more aggressive line given the diagonal nature of the left rough once you get over the initial tier.


As Wade also noted, the rough serves more as a redemption for a slicing tee shot.  If that were closely mown, marginal tee shots might just trickle over the edge and run into the ravine.  Unfortunately, on occasion, the rough is a little more wet or heavy, and balls will stop part way down the hill (like it appears happened to Tommy's friend in his photo), leaving no option but a punch to the lower bowl from an awkward lie, but it's still better than the ravine.






Kevin Lynch

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fourth hole posted
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2014, 11:05:20 AM »
However, the approach into the green is pure brilliance. Even a short iron will bounce in and roll out if landed short, and my 9 iron approach careened through the green when I played it back in the spring. I haven't looked all that closely at the contours of the land on the hole after crossing the ravine; the green area doesn't appear, from the landing zone, to slope away from the approach shot. Visually, it looks like the green sits on a small knob above the areas of fairway fronting and trailing the putting surface. The shot, however, plays almost like the fronting fairway is on a small downslope. It makes for a deceptively difficult approach for the first timer or aerial golfer, but probably makes the approach easier for a shorter hitter with some experience around the course, as it lets him feed his ball out onto the green a little more easily.

Couldn't agree more - I love this second shot, and think it works wonderfully from the slight downhill lies you may have from the 2nd tier or the longer lengths from the first tier.  This landing area accommodates the lower trajectory shot that may be required from either scenario.  But as you also noted, the segmentation of the green and deceptive sloping also provides interest when you may use an aerial attack from the lower fairway.

Carl Rogers

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2014, 11:38:45 AM »
5th hole comment:
against the wind from the back tee (which I mistakenly played during the PACK Competition, this year), the hole is a par 5.
The visuals on this hole are as all holes at Ballyhack are spectacular.

Kevin, et al,
We are going to have to agree to disagree.   I can see the strategy for the scratch golfer on this and other holes ......

For me, the approach shot is another severly uphill shot, that is basically beyond my skill and/or pyschological comfort level.  1 shot out of 5 or 6, I can get lucky and wind up on the correct level of the green.  An over the green approach risks a 40 yard down the hill next shot (and that is not hitting a bad chip shot).  In the George Cup this year, I wonder how many 4 putts were made here.

This year's Sunday event had a back right pin and I made a miraculous 5.

I hope some higher handicapper's start to chime in.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2014, 11:44:16 AM »
5th hole comment:
against the wind from the back tee (which I mistakenly played during the PACK Competition, this year), the hole is a par 5.
The visuals on this hole are as all holes at Ballyhack are spectacular.

I also played this hole from the back tee in the pack.  I make a lot of bogies here so I thought I'd play it as a par five.  Hit my third shot to about five feet and made the putt.  Will wonders never cease.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Kevin Lynch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fourth hole posted
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2014, 12:03:04 PM »
Tommy, I agree with your comments.  How can one get a double on this hole?  Very easy .... and not hit really bad shots.

I find the tee shot quite befuddling as, for me, a well struck drive may bound around all over the place (see the amount of terrain movement in the middle of the different slivers of fairways) and I don't have a shot.

If very lucky, and I have a straightforward approach shot, I find that the landing area just to hit the green, never mind where the pin is, very small.  Being very short or very long is very easy and a problematic up and down because there is an up and over domed 40 or 50 foot shot at a very high green speed.

Carl,

Going back to your "big picture" themes, you mentioned the interface of visuals with the shot played, and the tee shot on #4 definitely fits into that.  It can be hard to commit to your swing and line on #4, partly because the landing area is obscured, but also because the best line changes quite a bit depending on tee position (or even just varying wind conditions from the same tee).  To me, the psychological hazard of uncertainty is one of the more fun elements for me.  

As for tee shots bounding all over the place and the terrain movement, that stuff just adds to the fun for me, but I realize not everyone enjoys awkward lies as much as I do.

However, if you want to think about an overall theme, you comment about the befuddling nature of the tee shot on #4 leads me to one of my favorite features about Ballyhack, and that's the never ending variety of challenges presented.  

If many shots were obscured and visually confusing, that could get a bit old.  But just think about what the tour has shown so far.

#1 - All there in front of you.  Seems frightening but really not a long carry at all.  The uphill approach is partially blind (i.e. seeing the putting surface), but not a complete mystery.
#2 - The definition of all right there, including the various lines you can pick based on the pin position. If you pick the right side, you're partially blind, but you saw the entire hole from the tee)
#3 - You can see it all
#4 - Tee shot partially obscured and uncertain, but really fairly wide when you look at the aerial.  You just need to remember it's a diagonal landing area even though it doesn't appear that way.  But the approach options are there to assess from the elevated fairway.

There is a wonderful mixture of "all right there" shots as well as the odd shots that can be difficult to visualize (#8 Drive, layup on #9, approach on #11, drive on #12, approach on #14, short porch drive on #15).  I think the ones that "get in your head" really don't require an overly demanding shot, but are difficult to commit to.


But, agreeing to disagree is always a reasonable option.

Kevin Lynch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2014, 12:15:23 PM »
Here are the aerials for the front and back nine that may help people visualize some of the angles.  I'm not as adept using the photo tools as others (I'm an Excel guy), so forgive my poorly drawn hole numbers.  I'll try to crop a few of the individual holes that may help as well.
(EDIT - Figured out how to add numbers in Paint, so this should be a little better)

Front Nine:




Back Nine:


« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:14:10 AM by Kevin Lynch »

Lester George

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2014, 12:32:41 PM »
Kevin has really made some correct comments on number 4.  It certainly isn't a "ran out of room" hole.  I had a similar hole in another routing which is based entirely on making the player commit to an aggressive line with more yield or restrained line with less peril.  If you insist on hitting driver on number four you would be advised to take it down the middle or you may end in rough.  If you hit driver down the left to avoid the hazard, you may run out of fairway.  The fairway is 60 plus yards wide in the short landing area and 40 plus in the long.  Hardly what I would call out-of-room.

Lester

Carl Rogers

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fourth hole posted
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2014, 12:38:45 PM »
Carl,
......
#1 - All there in front of you.  Seems frightening but really not a long carry at all.  The uphill approach is partially blind (i.e. seeing the putting surface), but not a complete mystery.
#2 - The definition of all right there, including the various lines you can pick based on the pin position. If you pick the right side, you're partially blind, but you saw the entire hole from the tee)
#3 - You can see it all
#4 - Tee shot partially obscured and uncertain, but really fairly wide when you look at the aerial.  You just need to remember it's a diagonal landing area even though it doesn't appear that way.  But the approach options are there to assess from the elevated fairway.

....

But, agreeing to disagree is always a reasonable option.
[/quote]
Kevin et al,
I think holes 2 & 3, from a playability perspective for a wide range of golfers, are terrific.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 01:23:41 PM by Carl Rogers »
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Kevin Lynch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2014, 12:54:24 PM »
Here's a link to the Ballyhack website.  If you click on "Tour," this will give you 360 degree visuals from the tees, landing areas, and greens (along with some pro tips).  The view from the landing area on 4 really lets you see the 3 different fairway tiers.

http://www.ballyhackgolfclub.com/


Chris DeNigris

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2014, 01:47:41 PM »
Catching up-

3.  My favorite 3 on the course- as long as I'm not playing any further back than 180. Nickname on this one could be "Other".  The kind of green that you could spend an hour and hit a hundred putts and not get bored.

4. As everyone mentioned- tough as nails. Kevin's diagrams notwithstanding- I still think if you consider just the upper fairway as the legit playing corridor it's too narrow for this beastly a hole. You have to carry the center rough before it gets wide. Shame the lower fairway couldn't have been 10 yards wider where you could aim there and have a better angle into the green. Risking the chasm would be a cool risk/reward option.  Also think the area short of the green repels balls more down the hill than onto the green (especially coming in from the left side of the fairway) leaving a lot of pitches. Safe but not as nifty as if playing there to bounce on. Most times I've played it has to be a hot  low runner to defeat the slope.

5. Another easy relaxing driving hole with a demanding approach. A friendly version of number 1- which I would like more as the beginning hole. So wide off the tee but the blindness adds intrigue. I like to unintentionally pull hook a drive there, thinking it's dead,  only to find it in pretty good shape at the far left side of the fairway. From the normal tees I need to hit driver to get to the bottom of the hill but that usually brings one of the bunkers into play if struck a little too well. Definitely with Tommy- rather be left than right for the 2nd. Just happy to be on the correct level for my first putt. Another wild green, especially with the pin topside near one of the fall lines.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 01:49:53 PM by Chris DeNigris »

Kevin Lynch

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2014, 01:56:08 PM »
Here's the 5th hole aerial:




If I recall Lester's past discussions about the hole, the decision from the tee isn't meant to be limited to a left / right approach preference.

From the Ridge & shorter tees, most balls can get down to the flatter lies regardless of the fairway side chosen.   But if you're shorter hitter, I think the hole "bottoms out" a little sooner on the left side.  

However, from the Ballyhack (378) and Big Lick Tees (442), the distance of your tee shot has a greater impact on the flatness of your lie.  Would you rather be 150 yards from a slight downhill lie or lay back to 175-180 and have a flatter lie?  In that regard, the tee shot decision is a little more multi-dimensional.  


Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2014, 02:10:22 PM »
Kevin, thanks for the aerial pictures.  It really helps get a sense of the routing.  It is worthy of a former George Cup holder!!
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ken Fry

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—fifth hole posted
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2014, 03:47:50 PM »

Number 3 green is difficult, but not more difficult than it needs to be.

Lester     


Lester,

I was hoping you could expand your comments of #3 green.

After playing the hole, I was surprised by the separation of the putting surface and the bunkers.  It's easy to assume from the tee the green would present a bank along the right edge to feed a "running" shot toward the back left hole locations.  If a tee ball finds the area between the bunkers and putting surface it would be most difficult getting the ball up and down.

Thanks.

Ken

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—sixth hole posted
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2014, 04:04:29 PM »
#6 par four  354,334,298,272,242

Every course needs a great short par four.  Ballyhack has two, six and eight.  Six is just a charmer.  I have played it from every tee, including the forward one, where it plays as a long par three.  In fact, I have driven the green from the three forward tees, and I can barely hit it out of my shadow anymore.  The carry from tee to green is downhill and is shorter than the listed distances.  The contouring of the fairway is brilliant and hit in the correct place the ball will bound toward the green.

This is the view from each of the three back tees.




The safe play is to hit the tee shot just left of the right bunker.  The contours of the ground will feed the ball closer to the green and you will be left with a shot inside 100 yards.


Looking back at the tee from the landing area.


About 80 yards from the green.  The front right pin is the most difficult.  Last week I drove the ball about ten yards from the green four times and made only one birdie.  The green is devilishly sloped and undulates in a way that getting a ball close is a trick.  For the most part the green is subtle and a birdie is a real option.  I always think three when I tee it up on this hole.


About forty yards away.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 12:56:34 AM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Kevin Lynch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—sixth hole posted
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2014, 05:00:31 PM »
#6 par four  354,334,298,272,242

The safe play is to hit the tee shot just left of the right bunker.  The contours of the ground will feed the ball closer to the green and you will be left with a shot inside 100 yards.


You used a phrase I was unclear about.  What is this "safe shot" phenomenon you speak of? 

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—sixth hole posted
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2014, 05:24:03 PM »
I am enjoying the tour but I am not sure I can add much to the discussion.  My partner in the Buda (Van) pretty strongly suggested where I should aim for most of the shots and he knew what he was talking about.  He had me play much more conservative shots than I otherwise would have chosen. 

Kevin Lynch

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—sixth hole posted
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2014, 05:29:16 PM »
I have to run out to get my son, so I'll add comments later.

In the meantime, here's the 6th Hole Aerial. Along the Yellow Line (from the 334 Yard Ballyhack tees), you're looking at roughly 195 to reach the fairway and 250 before you run out of room.




Kevin Lynch

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Re: Ballyhack GC hole by hole—sixth hole posted
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2014, 05:34:46 PM »
I am enjoying the tour but I am not sure I can add much to the discussion.  My partner in the Buda (Van) pretty strongly suggested where I should aim for most of the shots and he knew what he was talking about.  He had me play much more conservative shots than I otherwise would have chosen. 

Anything you add is greatly appreciated, even if it's to talk about what bad decisions you may have been tempted to try without the voice of reason.  It may tie into Carl's theme about the visual impact on shot selection and seems especially appropriate on this hole.  There's a reason this hole's name is "Gamble."