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Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Difference between a Biarritz Hole and a Double Plateau?
« Reply #275 on: September 25, 2013, 05:49:34 PM »
This imprudent mind still awaits the date of the publication of your favorite picture and more importantly its caption.  Until then the jury is still out.

Do you really think that there is only a few weeks between the last two pictures?  Did they formalize the bunkers that quickly?  There as to be at least a year between the first and the last picture.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Difference between a Biarritz Hole and a Double Plateau?
« Reply #276 on: September 25, 2013, 10:08:32 PM »
This imprudent mind still awaits the date of the publication of your favorite picture and more importantly its caption.  

When my source provides me with the date, you'll be amongst the first to know.
But, we know it's date is AFTER the course opened.



Until then the jury is still out.

I'm afraid that the jury has already rendered a verdict and turned the lights out, leaving you in the dark, in the courthouse, all alone ;D


Do you really think that there is only a few weeks between the last two pictures?  

I don't think there's that much time difference between the 2nd and 3rd photo, and probably a little more time difference between # 1 and # 3.
If you look carefully, you can see the similarities and what has been built and what needs to be completed.
What is obvious is that the photo taken after the hole was complete clearly states that the entire footpad, the two tiers and the swale were all putting surface.





Did they formalize the bunkers that quickly?  

I think so.
When you look at photo's 1, 2 and 3 above, you can see the progression and similarities in the finished and unfinished elements


There as to be at least a year between the first and the last picture.

What makes you draw that conclusion ?


Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Difference between a Biarritz Hole and a Double Plateau?
« Reply #277 on: September 26, 2013, 05:04:00 AM »
Quote
There as to be at least a year between the first and the last picture.

What makes you draw that conclusion ?


The first picture in my sequence is from the construction collection from 1924-25 and the green appears to me to not to have been grassed.  The course opened mid April 1926.  A prudent person would think that greens would take a year to grow in.  The greens were reported to be in fine shape when the course opened - the fairways were reportedly not in good condition.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Difference between a Biarritz Hole and a Double Plateau?
« Reply #278 on: September 26, 2013, 06:57:12 AM »
Bryan,

I can see why you're confused.

Greens don't take a year to grow in.

Secondly, 1924-1925 is a two year window.
Are you telling us that you believe it took two and a half years to build and grass this green, from 1924 to 1925 to 1926 ?

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Difference between a Biarritz Hole and a Double Plateau?
« Reply #279 on: September 27, 2013, 07:10:26 PM »
Patrick,

No.


Do you suppose these guys were laying down a layer of charcoal, or is it just a soil mixture?





Patrick_Mucci

Re: Difference between a Biarritz Hole and a Double Plateau?
« Reply #280 on: September 27, 2013, 07:18:29 PM »
Bryan,

The answer is obvious if you take the time to analyze the photo.

Good luck

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Difference between a Biarritz Hole and a Double Plateau?
« Reply #281 on: October 01, 2013, 02:20:26 PM »
Another article on the use of charcoal/cinder/clinker/breeze in building greens from 1926 Golf Illustrated.






DJohnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Difference between a Biarritz Hole and a Double Plateau?
« Reply #282 on: November 11, 2014, 11:07:44 AM »
Mark:

The best descriptions of the MacRaynor templates that I've seen comes in the GCA interview of George Bahto, here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/george-bahto/

I don't know anyone (living) who has put more time into studying the templates than George, so to me his word is pretty definitive.

I've seen quite a few volcano holes, and while I don't think they are a MacRaynor template, I do think it's something that's been built by several architects. There's an old nine-hole course here in Wisconsin called Eagle Springs that has one of the best versions I've seen (click on this link; it's the first photo shown of the course:http://www.eaglespringsgolfresort.com/aboutus/coursephotos/

I think Langford's 7th hole at Lawsonia is maybe a volcano hole under a loose interpretation, although I also think it has attributes of a MacRaynor short.

I see a Volcano hole as a longish par 3 with severe trouble all around if the green is missed; an Alps to me is best represented by the two originals (U.K. and U.S.) -- Prestwick and NGLA -- a blind shot over a large hill to a green unseen. But see the Bahto interview for further definitions and interpretations of an Alps.


Eagle Springs' 2nd, designed by A. G. Spaulding, a former pitcher and manager for the Chicago Cubs


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