News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


SBendelow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #150 on: November 27, 2014, 01:31:15 PM »
Ken Fry,
In your post #125 are you implying that the Michicago course and the Twin City Golf & Aviation course are one in the same?
The newspaper article shown seems to suggest two different golf course locations?
Stuart Bendelow

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #151 on: November 28, 2014, 07:39:13 PM »
A Sept. 1919 article from Illustrated World which has Bendelow discussing his design work in his own words:







"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #152 on: November 29, 2014, 10:33:31 AM »
Terrific find, Sven.

Perhaps TB didn't want to give away trade secrets or perhaps the article was written as froth for a non-golfing readership, but TB's discussion of the factors he considered when laying out a course strikes me as fairly rudimentary. He places great weight on hole lengths, as Victorian designers once did. Discussion of other design issues is pretty thin. For example, his concerns about bunker placement seem to turn on the impact that bunkers have on speed of play. Odd.        

By 1919 there had been a great deal written about gca, including bunker placement. Low, CBM, Taylor, Simpson, Travis, Colt, Fowler - all the usual suspects - addressed the topic. TB's discussion sounds like a throwback to an earlier era, as if the two preceding decades of thinking about gca had not happened. But again, perhaps I am being unfair and the piece is not representative of his thinking.

Bob          
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 10:38:50 AM by BCrosby »

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #153 on: November 29, 2014, 12:33:57 PM »
Terrific find, Sven.

Perhaps TB didn't want to give away trade secrets or perhaps the article was written as froth for a non-golfing readership, but TB's discussion of the factors he considered when laying out a course strikes me as fairly rudimentary. He places great weight on hole lengths, as Victorian designers once did. Discussion of other design issues is pretty thin. For example, his concerns about bunker placement seem to turn on the impact that bunkers have on speed of play. Odd.        

By 1919 there had been a great deal written about gca, including bunker placement. Low, CBM, Taylor, Simpson, Travis, Colt, Fowler - all the usual suspects - addressed the topic. TB's discussion sounds like a throwback to an earlier era, as if the two preceding decades of thinking about gca had not happened. But again, perhaps I am being unfair and the piece is not representative of his thinking.

Bob          

Bob:

A couple of quick points:

- His thoughts in the article on bunkering and speed of play related solely to the first hole, with the idea of getting players going on the course.  I think its fair to assume that he espoused the idea of easing you into the round.  I'd also suggest that outside of his thoughts on the lengths of holes for the first few holes (as noted in the article), he was much less constrained in his use of the land than some of his contemporaries, who espoused ideal lengths for all 18.  Where CBM and Raynor had to fit 18 separate puzzle pieces on to a piece of property (something they were very good at), Bendelow seems to follow a simple pattern for starting the course, and then lets the land dictate the rest.  My guess is that if his simple formula wouldn't work, he'd find another alternative.

- If there was one major point I took away from this read it is that Bendelow tried to work with what the land gave him.  Instead of forcing cross bunkers or symmetrical features on to the land, he discusses identifying natural hazards and using them to their best advantage.  The one major constraint that he did put on the project was locating the clubhouse first, which very well could have precluded finding the very best 18 holes possible. 

- For the most part, Bendelow wasn't building courses for those with deep pockets.  Most of his work was for municipalities spending tax dollars or clubs with limited budgets in small towns.  As evidenced by the fees he collected, there was a great deal of economy in his methods.  This extended to creating a design that could be easily implemented by the club upon his departure (give another read to the instruction letter for Marsettawa posted earlier in the thread).

- I believe this was very much a fluff piece, and it doesn't surprise me that they asked Bendelow to participate as he was still considered the leading expert in the field at this point.

You seem to suggest that Bendelow's design philosophies didn't evolve, that he was stuck in the "Victorian" mode.  I'd recommend you play (or read up on) Olympia Fields South, a course built in the middle of his career, and let me know if you still feel the same way.  If there was anyone who saw the game of golf change over the years, it was TB.  From changes in design philosophies, to changes in equipment, he was at the forefront of the game on many fronts (there were probably very few people who saw as many or more courses than him), and would have been very aware of how architecture was evolving.  Like many of his contemporaries, Bendelow was also a student of the great holes from abroad, having seen them as a youth and having made at least one visit back to Scotland over the years. 

I keep coming back to that early Travis article where he discusses the Willie Dunn school and Bendelow as the successor to Dunn's methods.  I think that article sells his abilities and accomplishments short, or simply highlights the most basic projects he worked on.  There are holes and features he constructed still on the ground at many of his courses that suggest he could find interesting holes without having to utilize a Victorian bunker scheme, that he understood how to use elevation changes to their most compelling use and that he could build greens that contained a great deal of interest.  The 6th and 7th holes at OFCC South by themselves should be enough to convince anyone that his work was up there with the other greats of this era.

Sven

 

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #154 on: November 30, 2014, 02:15:18 PM »
This really caught my eye:

"...bringing each match back to the clubhouse after every nine holes are completed, now is taken for granted everywhere. It is worthy of note, however, that until the idea occurred to Tom Bendelow, no courses were made this way. Like as not the ninth green was placed a mile or two away from the locker room; players who came out for just nine holes had a long and uninteresting walk back to the clubhouse when they finished. In the endeavor to obviate this handicap, Bendelow threw into the discard the threadbare idea on an 'out' and 'in' course."

I had never read that Bendelow was credited with having both nines start and finish at the clubhouse. Given his pioneer status in the field of golf course architecture, it doesn't really surprise me, but I am surprised that he isn't typically given credit for one of the most common conventions in golf.

 
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #155 on: December 01, 2014, 07:00:57 AM »
Sven -

If the main goal of this exercise is to get a better picture of TB, you are succeeding. For me he's always been obscured by other, bigger names. Part of that is because TB didn't write very much. It is hard to get a feel for his design philosophy by way of a listing of his courses, almost none of which I have seen. Which is why the article you posted is so interesting. It's a window on what TB was trying to do. Comments by him show up in snippets here and there, but I hadn't seen anything as detailed.

My instinct has always been to place TB as a prolific, but second tier architect. I need to give him more attention. 

Great stuff. Keep it coming.

Bob

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #156 on: December 02, 2014, 12:33:33 PM »
Bob:

Another example of Bendelow's thoughts on design, this time in regards to Putting Greens (Feb. 1915 The Golfers Magazine) -





"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #157 on: December 02, 2014, 02:54:37 PM »
This really caught my eye:

"...bringing each match back to the clubhouse after every nine holes are completed, now is taken for granted everywhere. It is worthy of note, however, that until the idea occurred to Tom Bendelow, no courses were made this way. Like as not the ninth green was placed a mile or two away from the locker room; players who came out for just nine holes had a long and uninteresting walk back to the clubhouse when they finished. In the endeavor to obviate this handicap, Bendelow threw into the discard the threadbare idea on an 'out' and 'in' course."

I had never read that Bendelow was credited with having both nines start and finish at the clubhouse. Given his pioneer status in the field of golf course architecture, it doesn't really surprise me, but I am surprised that he isn't typically given credit for one of the most common conventions in golf.

 

Makes you wonder why he tossed out this idea when designing Medinah #3, as the 9th hole couldn't be any further away from the clubhouse if he tried.   And #3 was designed in the twilight of his career.   Strange.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #158 on: December 02, 2014, 03:21:48 PM »
Here's another interesting tidbit from the article written by Bendelow about greens. He advocates mowing after 10 a.m., saying that the dew on the grass is extremely beneficial for growth, and suggests that less water would be needed on greens if this practice were followed. Setting aside the issue of interfering with mid-morning play, was Bendelow right about this?
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #159 on: December 02, 2014, 04:03:43 PM »
This really caught my eye:

"...bringing each match back to the clubhouse after every nine holes are completed, now is taken for granted everywhere. It is worthy of note, however, that until the idea occurred to Tom Bendelow, no courses were made this way. Like as not the ninth green was placed a mile or two away from the locker room; players who came out for just nine holes had a long and uninteresting walk back to the clubhouse when they finished. In the endeavor to obviate this handicap, Bendelow threw into the discard the threadbare idea on an 'out' and 'in' course."

I had never read that Bendelow was credited with having both nines start and finish at the clubhouse. Given his pioneer status in the field of golf course architecture, it doesn't really surprise me, but I am surprised that he isn't typically given credit for one of the most common conventions in golf.

 

Makes you wonder why he tossed out this idea when designing Medinah #3, as the 9th hole couldn't be any further away from the clubhouse if he tried.   And #3 was designed in the twilight of his career.   Strange.

Probably because in the case of the original design, most of the land in the middle of the course, south of Lake Kadijah, was retained by the four founders for their housing development. And once that land was available, the likely place to revamp the course north of the lake was taken by the ski jump. I've played around with alternate routings in my head, say, the current 10-11-15-16 as 6-7-8-9, and you're still south of the water.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #160 on: December 03, 2014, 11:02:20 AM »
Lambton G&CC in Toronto has a Bendelow connection, along with several others:
  


It may have had one of the longest holes created in any era:  



(GI, 1903)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 11:11:17 AM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #161 on: December 03, 2014, 07:36:13 PM »
This really caught my eye:

"...bringing each match back to the clubhouse after every nine holes are completed, now is taken for granted everywhere. It is worthy of note, however, that until the idea occurred to Tom Bendelow, no courses were made this way. Like as not the ninth green was placed a mile or two away from the locker room; players who came out for just nine holes had a long and uninteresting walk back to the clubhouse when they finished. In the endeavor to obviate this handicap, Bendelow threw into the discard the threadbare idea on an 'out' and 'in' course."

I had never read that Bendelow was credited with having both nines start and finish at the clubhouse. Given his pioneer status in the field of golf course architecture, it doesn't really surprise me, but I am surprised that he isn't typically given credit for one of the most common conventions in golf.

 

Makes you wonder why he tossed out this idea when designing Medinah #3, as the 9th hole couldn't be any further away from the clubhouse if he tried.   And #3 was designed in the twilight of his career.   Strange.

Probably because in the case of the original design, most of the land in the middle of the course, south of Lake Kadijah, was retained by the four founders for their housing development. And once that land was available, the likely place to revamp the course north of the lake was taken by the ski jump. I've played around with alternate routings in my head, say, the current 10-11-15-16 as 6-7-8-9, and you're still south of the water.

That still doesn't make sense.  The earliest you could hit the 10th hole is after 6, not 5.  Maybe the 3rd and 4th holes ever existed and you went straight to 5 after 2.   Then played 6, 10, 11, 12, 13 and old 18 as the front 9?  But then where do go after that?

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #162 on: December 03, 2014, 10:24:13 PM »
This really caught my eye:

"...bringing each match back to the clubhouse after every nine holes are completed, now is taken for granted everywhere. It is worthy of note, however, that until the idea occurred to Tom Bendelow, no courses were made this way. Like as not the ninth green was placed a mile or two away from the locker room; players who came out for just nine holes had a long and uninteresting walk back to the clubhouse when they finished. In the endeavor to obviate this handicap, Bendelow threw into the discard the threadbare idea on an 'out' and 'in' course."

I had never read that Bendelow was credited with having both nines start and finish at the clubhouse. Given his pioneer status in the field of golf course architecture, it doesn't really surprise me, but I am surprised that he isn't typically given credit for one of the most common conventions in golf.

 

Makes you wonder why he tossed out this idea when designing Medinah #3, as the 9th hole couldn't be any further away from the clubhouse if he tried.   And #3 was designed in the twilight of his career.   Strange.

Probably because in the case of the original design, most of the land in the middle of the course, south of Lake Kadijah, was retained by the four founders for their housing development. And once that land was available, the likely place to revamp the course north of the lake was taken by the ski jump. I've played around with alternate routings in my head, say, the current 10-11-15-16 as 6-7-8-9, and you're still south of the water.

That still doesn't make sense.  The earliest you could hit the 10th hole is after 6, not 5.  Maybe the 3rd and 4th holes ever existed and you went straight to 5 after 2.   Then played 6, 10, 11, 12, 13 and old 18 as the front 9?  But then where do go after that?
You're right. I told you it was in my head! I'm much better with a map and a pen. :)
And yes, where to after 18? Can't be done without a lot of back and forth over the creek, and the whole idea was to play most of No. 3 across the creek.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

SBendelow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #163 on: December 13, 2014, 02:17:56 PM »
I've never liked this list because of how two clubs where I am a member are counted four times.  Two courses in Lawrenceville, Illinois and two in Robinson.  I don't get the need to artificially stretch the numbers on such a prolific career.

John.
I believe you are correct in noting that a duplication exists in the listing of TB courses in Lawrenceville and Robinson, Illinois.
The listing should be amended to read:
          Robinson, IL             Crawford County Golf Course (now Quail Creek CC)       1919                                                           
          Lawrenceville, IL       Cross Roads Golf Club                                                1915                                                                As you may have better on the ground information, would you concur with this change?  Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
Stuart Bendelow

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #164 on: December 14, 2014, 01:21:29 AM »
Dave, Branch River is about 10 miles from Manitowoc in the Village of BranchRiver.  It is a very nice course.  They recently went public a few years ago.  I played there about 5 times in last two years.  They also have a member unlimitted golf fee.  If I lived closer, I'd join it. 

Meadow Links is not the same as Elks.  They are about a par 5 apart. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #165 on: December 18, 2014, 09:59:57 AM »
Tucked at the back of this May 10, 1913 The Miami News article discussing the creation of Miami Beach (the actual city, not just the golf course) is a notation that Bendelow was expected to arrive to aid in creating a scientifically correct golf course.  Add this one to the possibilities list for now.  The only other reference to an architect I've seen for the first Miami Beach course is William Langford, which raises a host of questions.



« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 10:01:47 AM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #166 on: December 19, 2014, 01:46:01 PM »
I'm going to add in the various plans of Bendelow courses I can track down in a series of posts, grouped by era.  Hopefully this gives a sense of how his style progressed over the years.

Most of these maps are borrowed from the Routing, Maps and Plans thread.

First up, anything from 1900 and before:

Marine and Field (NY Sun - March 1, 1897)



Roselle Casino (NY Sun - April 18, 1897)



Lakewood (Evening Telegram - 1915) - Although the map dates from later, Bendelow added the second nine in 1898.



Morris County (The Sun - Feb. 20, 1898)



Morris County (Boston Evening Transcript - Sept. 7, 1898)



Plainfield aka Hillside (1898)



Staten Island Cricket (NY Sun - Jan. 15, 1899)



Van Cortlandt (NY Sun - March 17, 1899 and May 1899 Golf Magazine)





Colonia CC (Brooklyn Daily Eagle - 1899)



Eagles Nest (1900) - Despite what the map says, both Bendelow and Dunn had a hand in the course.



Mahopac (Golf Magazine Aug. 1901)

« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 09:10:37 PM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #167 on: December 19, 2014, 02:11:23 PM »
1901-1910

Mohawk (The American Golfer - May 1910) - Bendelow's work was in 1903.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 02:16:34 PM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #168 on: December 19, 2014, 02:11:47 PM »
1911-1920

Columbus CC (Golf Magazine April 1915)



El Paso (El Paso Herald - Sept. 9, 1916)

« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 02:26:37 PM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #169 on: December 19, 2014, 02:12:58 PM »
1921-1936

Sunnyside (Decatur Review - Nov. 12, 1927)

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #170 on: December 22, 2014, 06:48:57 PM »
https://books.google.com/books?id=yd-wv6p27lQC&lpg=PA188&dq=tom%20bendelow&pg=PA188#v=onepage&q=tom%20bendelow&f=false

I think this establishes the date for the Kentland golf course. The link is to letters by George Ade.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 07:28:52 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #171 on: December 23, 2014, 06:27:10 PM »
One additional discrepancy to note.

Buried in the following Dec. 1920 Golfers Magazine piece on Pasadena is a list of courses laid out by George O'Neil.  Included in the list is a municipal course in Columbus Park, Chicago.  The APB List attributes the course to Bendelow in 1921, but I have not seen anything that corroborates his involvement.

One other quick note from the article, which is the attribution to O'Neil of the original course at Annandale.

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #172 on: December 26, 2014, 07:56:36 PM »
Another question mark for the list is Leavenworth CC (Lansing, KS) which the ASGCA List notes is a 1922 Bendelow design.

The March 1920 Golfers Magazine noted that the Leavenworth CC was laid out by James Watson.  The towns of Lansing and Leavenworth border each other, so I am pretty sure this is not a case of two courses by the same name.  It is possible that Bendelow came in after Watson to rework the course, but at this point I have not seen anything that corroborates his involvement other than the club being noted on the American Park Builder list of courses.

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #173 on: December 27, 2014, 01:13:52 PM »
One of the courses on the list that gives me a bit of pause is Portage Lake (I have it listed in 1901, but I believe this date comes from an earlier iteration of the ASGCA List).  I'm pretty sure this is the same course that has been attributed to Langford (aka Portage Park) in Houghton, MI.

A March 1922 Golfers Magazine article notes the construction of the Mich-o-ne-ka-ma Golf Camp by the American Park Builders.  The time period of the project would put in under Bendelow's reign with the firm, yet it is possible that Langford did the design prior to his departure from the company.


Quick followup on Mich-o-ne-ka-ma, in that it turns out there are two Portage Lakes in Michigan (one on the UP near Houghton, the other north of Manistee on the east side of Lake Michigan). 

Mich-o-ne-ka-ma was located just north of the latter, and you can almost make out a course in the modern aerials.  It was definitely an American Park Builders project, the question is exactly who was involved.



"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breaking Down the Bendelow List
« Reply #174 on: December 29, 2014, 12:54:36 PM »
In 1921 Bendelow returned to Lakewood CC (fka Colorado GC) in Denver to improve the course he had laid out in 1908. 



What stands out about this work is that Donald Ross supposedly visited in 1916 to make some renovations.  This is the only example I know of where Bendelow came in to improve upon work done by Ross.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross