Long, Long Holes

[Adam Lawrence]

While researching the British Newspaper Archive site on a completely different subject, I came across this newspaper clipping from the Sheffield Daily Telegraph in 1899, which refers to the Hallamshire Golf Club's intention to stretch one of its holes to 620 yards. In 1899!

I've never come across a hole anything like this length so early - even before the introduction of the Haskell. Two questions:

1. Does anyone know if the hole was ever built and played at such a length
2. What's the oldest recorded 600-yard plus hole? I can't say I had ever come across one here in the UK until pretty recently.

Adam

[Jason Thurman]

Canterbury's 16th dates to 1923. Not as old as this example, but it stretched to around 670 yards back then.

[Matthew Rose]

Was #12 at Oakmont 600 yards when it opened?

[Rich Goodale]

The 1st hole at Prestwick was played at 578 in the 1870 Open.  YTM had a 3 on this hole his way to victory.

My guess is that given B&I inflation,620 yards in 1899 would have been less than 578 yards in 1870.

[Tom_Doak]

Adam:

I've never seen a plan of the course to scale, or a scorecard, but I have always taken Bernard Darwin's description of the 4th hole at the original 7-hole Blackheath course to mean that it was a par-6 or even a par-7 back in the day.  I guess he might have been writing tongue-in-cheek.

[Steve Wilson]

From Sir Malcolm Campbell's The Scottish Golf Book and his write up of The Machrie

"The year was 1891 and Willie Campbell's challenge produced 18 holes without a single one of them under 200 yards.  But not content with having a course comparable in terms of difficulty with Machrihanish, Troon, and Prestwick, two optional holes were provided to increase the length of the course by 650 yards.

"An alternative 8th green was built north of the Glenegedale Burn, creating an unbelievable hole of 750 yards.  The return hole back to the 9th green then became 620 yards.

"History tells us not very surprisingly that there was little enthusiasm for such masochism and the holes just seemed to fade away.  They were not even used during the match which officially opened the course.

"There was never a bogey figure established for the longer of the two holes but some idea of what it would have been may be judged from a comparison with a long hole at the Lindrick Golf Club in Yorkshire, which also opened in 1891.

"Based on the Lindrick example the 8th at Machrie would have been a bogey 8!"

[Niall C]

Re the Machrie course, page 5 post 103, of Ed Odens course plans thread has a plan of the Machrie course. Sorry, unable to provide a link.

Niall

[Steve Wilson]

Niall,

Found it rather quickly with the much maligned search engine.  The reputed additional length would have been off the left hand side of the course drawing, which calls to mind the famous lament by the British office that all battles take place at the edge of the map.  I also see there is a very different spelling of Glenegedale Burn.

If I make it to The Machrie next spring I'll try to give it a look see as Gene Autry would have said. 


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,43053.125.html

[Niall C]

Steve

I meant to dig out the original newspaper cutting last night to remind myself of the text. While Malcolm Campbell's book (is he a knight ?) suggests a length of 750 yards, I seem to recall it suggested the holes could be longer than that, say 800 yards ? Mind you that could easily be my dodgy memory.

If you do make it over there it might be worth looking to see if there is a natural green site roughly where the green was, or was supposed to be. I'd also be interested to see a photo of the old Spion Kop green from where the tee was, if you happen to be taking photos.

Niall

[Steve Wilson]

Niall,

If I make it, and the if seems required as I've tentatively planned this trip for the past two years but circumstances have intervened, I intend to play the Machrie two or three times.  That should provide ample opportunity to take some photographs.  At this remove, 125 years, any evidence of what might have been on the ground could be difficult to detect. 

Oddly, the 800 yard number seems to resonate with me and I know I expected to see a greater length than 750 yards when I went to the Campbell book. 

Which hole is the Spion Kop, or are they identified on the card?  I don't think I've managed to encounter one of the numerous Spion Kops that are scattered through the courses of GB. 

Speaking of dodgy memories, I can't find any indication that the Malcolm Campbell I met in 2000 is a knight, but I swear he was introduced to me as such or identified as Sir Malcolm Campbell prior to the meeting.  Perhaps someone was having the overseas visitor on.  I should have asked to see his speedboat.

 

[Brian Colbert]

My understanding is that #11 at Beverly Country Club was the first 600 yard hole in America. The club dates back to 1908. I am unsure if the 600 yard version of the hole is as old as the club. I also heard during a recent restoration the club had the opportunity to lengthen at least 2 of the par 5s past 600 (definitely have room on 7 and 18) but chose not to because they had the first 600 yard hole.

That said, someone of the Crisham/Lavin variety can probably chime in on the accuracy of my statements.

[Niall C]

Steve

Not sure whether any of the green sites on the old plan represent the Spion Kop green but if it is any it will be either no. 1 or no. 2. My understanding is that the hole existed and indeed the landform is still there until relatively recently (1980's ?) when the farmer wanted the land back so he could get access to the burn.

Can't recall where I read/heard that but interested to see if it's true.

Niall

[Sven Nilsen]

My understanding is that #11 at Beverly Country Club was the first 600 yard hole in America. The club dates back to 1908. I am unsure if the 600 yard version of the hole is as old as the club. I also heard during a recent restoration the club had the opportunity to lengthen at least 2 of the par 5s past 600 (definitely have room on 7 and 18) but chose not to because they had the first 600 yard hole.

That said, someone of the Crisham/Lavin variety can probably chime in on the accuracy of my statements.

Bendelow designed a 625 yard hole for East End CC in Kankakee in 1906.

Apr/May 1906 edition of Golf: