Medinah #1 and Medinah #3

[Tom_Doak]

Is the #2 course any good?I have never heard anything about it.

#2 is only about 5800 yards, and is used mostly by women and families.  It's a great benefit to the overall facility.

It's a Bendelow design, similar to #1.  There are actually several cool greens on it, but they have shrunk over the years and lost some of the best hole locations ... it's a good candidate for restoration.

[mike_beene]

Is there room to make it a little longer or is that even necessary?

[Matthew Sander]

I have come to re-appreciate the size and the scale of Course #3 and other old, big golf courses.  I find great enjoyment in playing through hundred year-old trees and playing corridors that have been there for decades and have challenged the best in the world.  Further, I also occasionally enjoy playing a really hard, long and fair golf course.  Course #3 is a totally distinct challenge - and one the I generally take exception to constantly be dismissed in favor of quirk.  

Simply put, being able to play a different style of golf with a different challenge a hundred yards away for the challenge presented on #3, has added to the enjoyment of both.  That said, I don't fine one type of golf better or worse than the other.

JR,

I think it is important to note that while #1 does present a much different challenge to #3, it still is plenty of challenge. I didn't find #1 to be a quaint little pushover to accompany the big, brawny test of #3 (not that anyone is suggesting as much...). Some of those greens (hole locations to be more accurate) absolutely require approaches from the right spot in the fairway.

You mentioned that #4 is your favorite hole on the course. Is that the long par 4 with the creek that crosses the fairway? What a green! I share your fondness for that hole. Unfortunately, one of the gentlemen I played with during my visit doesn't feel the same way at all. He hit what he thought was an excellent approach to a back right hole location, expecting to be 10-15 ft. from the hole. When he got up to the green and saw his ball over the green as a result of the ridge and green that falls away to the back, he was not happy. His accusation was that it was "unfair" for a hole of that length and difficulty. It soured his mood for a good portion of the rest of the round. We couldn't have disagreed more in our opinions of the hole...

[Tom_Doak]

Unfortunately, one of the gentlemen I played with during my visit doesn't feel the same way at all. He hit what he thought was an excellent approach to a back right hole location, expecting to be 10-15 ft. from the hole. When he got up to the green and saw his ball over the green as a result of the ridge and green that falls away to the back, he was not happy. His accusation was that it was "unfair" for a hole of that length and difficulty. It soured his mood for a good portion of the rest of the round. We couldn't have disagreed more in our opinions of the hole...

I love it when a golfer who has never played a hole before thinks it is unfair because he misjudged it.  And I love it when you can take a good player completely out of his game just by throwing a big wrinkle into a green that he didn't expect.  [Note that there is plenty of short grass behind that green; it's not like he went into the water.]

Unfortunately the dude is probably also a panelist, so there goes the ranking. 

[Mike Treitler]

Tom,

Funny that you mention that because on that same hole my buddy bombed what he thought was a perfect drive down the fairway and ended up in the creek that is essentially blind from the tee.  Fortunately for you he ended up making par so I think your rating is safe

I loved that hole also... One of the best on the course for sure. That creek doesn't even come into play for me but it makes the hole look visually spectacular... Although I did 3 putt the green after knocking a 3 wood on! Great tough hole that follows the fun short par 4.

[JR Potts]

Is the #2 course any good?I have never heard anything about it.

It's the course I grew up playing.  I have a special affinity for course 2.  It's about 6300 yards from the backs and is an unadulterated Bendelow (if that's given any real architectural merit).  Its a bit tightly crammed but it's a sporty and fun golf course.  In fact, it's still probably the most fun course on the property.

That's said, there is a movement at Medinah to re-do it.  I have heard that there is a proposed restoration in the future. That's said, you can guess who the old-time members have decided to move forward with to do the work - hence my resignation from the greens committee.  You can't fix stupid.

I'll probably vote no, we'll see what the rest of the membership thinks.

[Josh Tarble]

Maybe I went in with too low of expectations, but I had a great time on #3 and was really surprised by the character of the course.  All I had heard was big and brawny, which it is.  But the movement in the land was much more than I expected and I thought the green complexes were excellent overall.  Maybe they aren't what they once were and  maybe I caught it on a tough day, but I thought there were several pin positions that left my knees shaking.  Greens like #4, #5, #7, #10...maybe a few more all had pretty significant movement on them.

We played it from roughly 7000 I think (Silver Tees but they were up a bit) and I didn't come away thinking it was a long slog.  Sure the par 3s have a bit of sameness, but overall I thought there were a lot of really fun golf shots and really didn't see where a lot of the criticism was coming from.

That being said I would love to get back up to play #1. 

[John Connolly]

Maybe I went in with too low of expectations, but I had a great time on #3 and was really surprised by the character of the course.  All I had heard was big and brawny, which it is.  But the movement in the land was much more than I expected and I thought the green complexes were excellent overall.  Maybe they aren't what they once were and  maybe I caught it on a tough day, but I thought there were several pin positions that left my knees shaking.  Greens like #4, #5, #7, #10...maybe a few more all had pretty significant movement on them.

We played it from roughly 7000 I think (Silver Tees but they were up a bit) and I didn't come away thinking it was a long slog.  Sure the par 3s have a bit of sameness, but overall I thought there were a lot of really fun golf shots and really didn't see where a lot of the criticism was coming from.

That being said I would love to get back up to play #1. 

+1

[Terry Lavin]

Medinah #2 is sort of like the old version of Pinehurst #1.  Short, easy and fun.  The greens are a bunch of upside down saucers and you can hit 9-iron into many of them.  As Doak mentioned, they have shrunk over the years and a simple restoration of re-doing the bunkers and expanding the green pads to recapture lost hole locations would help without changing the dominant characteristic and function of the course.

[JR Potts]

Medinah #2 is sort of like the old version of Pinehurst #1.  Short, easy and fun.  The greens are a bunch of upside down saucers and you can hit 9-iron into many of them.  As Doak mentioned, they have shrunk over the years and a simple restoration of re-doing the bunkers and expanding the green pads to recapture lost hole locations would help without changing the dominant characteristic and function of the course.

That is the plan I am told.  Plus the removal of about 1,000 more trees.

[JR Potts]

How about this for timing re: #2.

Just got this e-mailed.  Since it's publicly available, I feel it is appropriate to share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEsFUyLsG9I&feature=youtu.be

[J_ Crisham]

Ryan ,  Is Jones the choice of the old timers ? Who would be your pick? And why- if you don't feel it appropriate to answer on a public forum I completely understand .

[JR Potts]

No, I can answer as it is consistent with my rallying cry re: Doak #1 and an opinion I've never hid from. 

Yes, Jones is alleged to have an old contract for the renovation - that the club is sticking to.  So that decision apparently has been made.

Regarding your question, I feel that Medinah has the opportunity to incorporate the Keiser model to a private facility by bringing in different visions and artistic touches to different courses.  As I have said in past, if the founders of Medinah knew that Ross, Mackenzie, Tillinghast and Raynor were around and available in 1924 and picked Bendelow to design all three courses, the founding members should have been sued for malpractice. 

The Course #2 project is a smaller-scope project - with rebunkering, green and fairway expansion and tree removal being the primary focus.  That said, I think it would have been nice to get an up and coming architect to place their stamp on the project as there are still a lot of details that need vision and touch.  I think the average golfer might not see those details or might ignore those details, but I notice them - and I think like 1924, there are possibly much better and much more forward-thinking options available for the future of the club and the club as a whole that are being set-aside.

[J_ Crisham]

Ryan - thanks for the detailed reply. The idea of having 3 different architects is pretty enticing - 3 artists that will give you completely different looks. Given the number of young architects out there it would be refreshing to see one of them get a crack at #2.  Jones IMO is so passé - I look at what someone like Jay Blasi has accomplished in a few short years. Sadly, he receives little of the fanfare at Chambers Bay, The Patriot, or his recent well done renovation of Sentry World. There are probably 10 other young architects I could add.

[Terry Lavin]

Jones will do a good job. He's not being called in to touch up the Mona Lisa, after all.

[Andrew Buck]

How about this for timing re: #2.

Just got this e-mailed.  Since it's publicly available, I feel it is appropriate to share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEsFUyLsG9I&feature=youtu.be

Ryan,

Is it safe to say that it's not the scope of the project (restoring greens and bunkers, removing trees) that you object to, but rather the way you believe it will be carried out by Jones?

I also suspect Jones comes with higher fees for little additional value add over one of the dozen up and coming architects that would love to have a project like this for a historic club.

[JR Potts]

No, it's not a slight at Jones - as I am sure he and his crew will do a fine job. 

We have a world-class guy in house with Curtis Tyrrell so I know he will oversee the work and ensure it is done at a top-notch level - but, as I have repeatedly stated (and not shied away from stating), diversity is a great thing when it comes to golf and golf design/architecture.  I thought the Club was in agreement with that when we hired Doak for #1.  Guess not.

I would just like to see some new blood - that's all.  That said, after working with both Jones and Doak, I hope and pray that Curtis gets some extra involvement with this project - as the in-house changes he has made to #2, unsupervised, have been great.

We shall see.

[JR Potts]

Well, the 3.6MM project was approved almost unanimously on Saturday.  Work to start in September 2015 with the course re-opening in June 2017.

[Carl Nichols]

Well, the 3.6MM project was approved almost unanimously on Saturday.  Work to start in September 2015 with the course re-opening in June 2017.

1 vote against?

[JR Potts]

My vote was successfully lobbied to a "yes."

It's Illinois - I'm now awaiting my new club position with a shiny new pension.

[Terry Lavin]

So the winter of '17 is when I join Medinah! 

For decades, if you cared about golf and the golf course that you regularly played, Medinah was always about Number 3.  Which was and is too hard for everyday play, without much relief being provided by the shorter tee boxes.  Then Doak redid Course 1 and introduced fun, a concept not heard of at Medinah, outside of the Oasis bar or during professional tournaments, which is a huge benefit of membership.  Now, with the little course getting dolled up, this place is going to offer everything to everybody.  It's a great business model for a private club and it makes guys like me more likely to consider joining the club, which is something I never, ever considered prior to this recent work. 

[John McCarthy]

Terry:  Medinah has a lot of built in advantages, not the least of which is a huge property that can hold three courses.  Not many clubs in a non-rural area has that advantage going in.  But it would be real nice to play 18 in the morning on 1 or 3 then play nine with your kid on 2 after lunch. 

[JR Potts]

So the winter of '17 is when I join Medinah! 
 

I know a guy....although I don't think this is good idea for my liver or life outside of the club.

[Tom_Doak]

If you took the greens at Medinah 3 and surgically transplanted them onto virtually any course in the country, it would be an improvement.

Seriously?

[JR Potts]

If you took the greens at Medinah 3 and surgically transplanted them onto virtually any course in the country, it would be an improvement.

Seriously?

Don't quite understand why you make comments like this?   To what end?

For someone who didn't want to be asked to comment on Rees' work at Medinah or have Rees comment on your work at Medinah, comments like this seem quite counterproductive if you ask me.