Redanman,
Thanks for the great review, you said it better than I could have.
One correction, the hole you descirbed as 12 is actually 13, and you forgot to mention that besides the 460 it plays from the back, their is OB on the left, a small pond on the right and the minimum you can have in is about 160-170 since the creek and pond cut in. This hole plays to one of the toughest greens on the course as well, the old 13 was great, this one is magnificent!
A couple of other holes that you didn't mention.
# 1 Now plays about 400-410 downhill all the way to a green sitting just on the other side of the creek. If anyone remembers what the old #1 was like this is a dramatic change. Their was much debate when Bobby built this hole actually, at first he was going to leave the green where it was and just widen the fairway a bit, but after some convincing of a member to put the hole this way, he went ahead and did it. Bobby was worried, and with good reason, that doing this would slow up play too much on the first hole and even considered switching the nine's because of this. #1 has played extrememly difficult this past weekend because, even if you hit a really good drive you are still going to have at least about 130 (150 for most) left on a severe downhill lie playing to a green that sits just over a creek that is more wide than deep.
#2 Weed changed this hole from a funky par 5 double-dog leg to a solid par 4, stretched to about 420 yards, probably more from the tips, and he eliminated the 1st dog leg.
#3This was probably the biggest change that no one expected on the course. #3 used to play about 220 from the tips and about 180-190 for the members. We have now gone to a 5 tee system and most members have been playing from the Bronze Tees, which are 6600 yards, while the tips go back to about 7000 yards, the next set is about 6100 yards. So anyway, on opening day from the bronze tees #3 was playing 244 yards, and 260 from the tips!!! Most members were in shock and awe to say the least, but to Don Brown's credit the hole was playing down wind and played about 15 yards less even though it is not really down hill.
#7 Weed to drab par 4 with a couple of bunkers cutting the fairway about 30 short of the green. Much like 15, Weed moved the tees up to about 335 yards from the tips, and any where from 315-290 from the bronzes. With elevated tees this hole is now a risk reward drivable par 4. There are bunkers that are about 180 to carry on the right side of the fairway and a huge bunker about 260 to carry on the left side of the fairway that if you get in is total death as it is still about 40 yards to the hole. He also enlargened the pond that formerly sat between 7 and 17 and brought it up the right side of the green on 7, bringing the water into play if you go for the green and miss it long or right. On opening day one of our young guns hit driver from the tips and ran it off the green and came up about 5 feet from going into the water!
#8- One of the problems we had with our par 3's was that 3 of the 4 par 3's played 165-180 everyday and more often than not played the same club. #8 was one of those that played over a pond but the green didn't start for about 15 yards after the pond. Now Weed shortened the hole to about 165 from the tips, shrunk the green by about 20 percent and brought the pond right up to the green. Not to mention the creek that sits 10 yards past the green!
One other note on 17#, Weed brought the green out to sit right on top of the pond, creating another risk reward hole, this time with a par 5. It plays about 550 from the Bronze tees, up to about 580 from the tips, howerever this hole was playing down wind all weekend and the tee shot is dramatically downhill. Alot of players found themselves with 210-225 of basically all carry to a green that is receptive, but does have a creek behind it. One of my playing partners one Sunday was put in a predicament on the 1st hole of the day as this was our starting point for the shotgun. He had 210 left of which he would have to carry the lake/pond,the hole was playing downwind as well. He chose to go for it and pulled his shot left into the lake, as the carry gets longer to the left, this was a great illustration of a hole where formerly only the longest players at the club could go for it, and at that there wasn't much of a chance of holding the green.
One other thing that many members noticed over the weekend was that the wind was playing much more of a factor than it had ever done so before because of the tree clearing, this added another thinking element while playing.
I really felt that you had to think your way around this course and be very patient with it. Talking to Don Brown and his assistant Vince DeFusco, we all agreed that it would be tough to get those greens at more than a 10 or 11 because of all the contours in them, we also believe that when those greens are fast it will be a different course.
The course was defintily playing firm and fast this weekend, and I was pleased to hear both from the Arhcitects and Superintendents that this was the way they planned to keep them. Bobby told me he wants you to be able to run the ball up on many holes, and there are only a few holes where this isn't possible.
I will start working on a date to get everyone together in early Sept. for everyone to at least walk the course, and hopefully within the next month or two I will be able to get something set up for you to play it.
Wayne and Mayday, I know that my asst. pros said that in a few weeks we were going to allow RG members out to play on their own to thank them for their genorosity during our shutdown.
I believe we are going to do so for many of the other clubs that provided us with reciprocity as well, but that prob. wont be for about a month.
Jason