[DTaylor18]

With all the talk of course rankings, i came accross an interesting article in the September/October issue of PGA Tour Partners Magazine.  Brad Faxon discusses one of his hobbies, playing the top golf courses in the country.  He discusses some of his top 10 courses listed below, which are in no particular order:

Pine Valley (he got goosebumps as they were parking the car)
Chicago Golf Club
Crystal Downs Country Club
San Francisco Golf Club
Pebble Beach (his personal favorite because it is the most spectacular place he's ever been)
Cypress Point
Riviera (he says the 10th hole is his favorite short par 4 in the world)
Merion (he wants another US Open here)
Oak Hill

He also mentions that Rhode Island CC, Newport CC, and Wannamoisett CC are three of his favorite Ross courses.  Nothing too shocking, but I thought it was interesting from a TOur Player's perspective.

[Tom_Doak]

Oak Hill ???

I didn't know Brad Faxon had played Crystal Downs.  I'll have to ask around about when that was.

[Scott_Burroughs]

He seems to have good taste and a good sense of history, getting goosebumps parking the car at PV!  Also not fixated on long courses (he's not a big hitter).

For a guy who grew up in RI (at RICC) playing a bunch of very good Ross courses around, he must have bunched them together, because last I heard, Newport CC was a Tillie design.

[Joel_Stewart]

Only Pebble and Riveria being yearly tour stops.

I played with a tour player a few years ago who seemed to have a good eye for architecture.  He mentioned they play very few good golf courses on tour, having moved to TPC type courses over the last 20 years.

[Doug Wright]

Brad has good taste, though I too wondered about Oak Hill. I also wonder if Brad's played the courses Shivas mentions, eg Sand Hills, or whether they're on his "Next Fifty."

[TEPaul]

Clearly Brad Faxon has not yet found and played Fernindina Beach Municipal or it would be near the top of his list.  

[Brad Klein]

Cut the guy some slack. That's a damned good list. He lists ten and people criticize him for leaving off X,Y & Z. There's room for only 10. lf he you asked him for twenty you'd get the answer you are looking for.

By the way, talk to most every golf pro and they will tell you that the bulk of the Tour venues are awful. The standard rule of thumb is that they play the 3rd best course in town, but that's in itself an exaggeration and they know it.

Two weeks ago, Faxon and his buddy, Billy Andrade, drove to the south side of Boston on their own (free) time to play a new Silva course, Black Rock, Then they toured an adjoining property, Boston GC (by Gil Hanse) that was under construction. That tells me they care somewhat about architecture. Good for them.

[Darren_Kilfara]

I'm pretty sure that Brad Faxon has come across to play Machrihanish in the past, which is a pretty good sign that he's more interested in golf course architecture than most Tour players. I think his list is pretty good, too...

Cheers,
Darren

[brad_miller]

Now someone has to ask Brad what 10 courses does he most want to see for the first time.

[Jim Franklin]

Brad - That would be an interesting answer IMO and one I would like to see golf publications ask the tour pros from time to time.

[Dan Herrmann]

I like the PV goosebumps quote.  If you haven't ever driven up there, it's amazing.  You come from near a aging amusement park (Clementon Park), down a dead end street (Railroad Ave.) with unused train tracks on the right side and very average houses on the left.  

Then, you hit golf heaven - you hit the dead end, but there's a little road across the railroad tracks leading to the Pine Valley police department and borough hall - a flag is always waving.  Just beyond that is the gate and one of the world's best golf courses.

I waked PV during the Philadelphia Open last year, and had goose bumps just driving in on the school bus!  And, yes, I have returned, just to catch a glimpse of #2 from the road...

[Scratch_Nathan]

Scott Burroughs -

I've seen multiple architectural credits on Newport CC given to Willie Davis (1894), Donald Ross (1915) and Tillinghast (1924).

Not sure on the accuracy of the dates as they were culled from different sources.

[Robert Kimball]

What, no mention of the Furman University Golf Course??!!

Come on, Brad, they still have your course-record 62 score card hanging on the clubhouse wall.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

Scratch,

Even Ross expert (and New Englander) Brad Klein didn't dispute the statement about Tillie.  The Tillie Society website lists NCC as an Original Design.  Perhaps it is similar to Shinnecock re:Flynn vs. Dunn/Raynor/Mac.

[Scratch_Nathan]

That's very interesting, since I took two of the Newport dates from a 1999 listing of Golf & Travel's "Best Classical Courses" - since G&T was owned by Turnstile (GOLFWEEK), doesn't that mean it was edited by Brad?  It lists Donald Ross (1915) and the Tillinghast (1924).  I took the W. Davis date from GOLF MAGAZINE's 2001 listing (it was handy).

[DTaylor18]

A few other tidbits from the article I didn't have time to post last night:

He said his recent trip to Pine Valley was his first trip there in the last 18 years, and that it was one of the few famous places thatl ives up to the hype.  He said that nearly every tee shot strikes terror and that he was happy to shhot a 68 there on a relatively calm day.

He said he's embarking on an effort to play more of the great courses because he is a budding architect.  He went to Crystal Downs becasue Ben Crenshaw raved about it so much.

He preferred San Francisco over Winged Foot, Baltusrol, and Bethpage Black, three other Tillinghast courses he said he held in high regard.

He really seemed excited to play these courses, and I would bet that he hasn't played at a place like Sand Hills, since it's so off the beaten track.  After all, he's pretty busy most of the time playing places like Augusta.

[Brad Klein]

Shivas, fair enough point, though I'm still not sure what the point of your "omission" is. In any case, I am constantly amazed that when I'm asked and others I hear about are asked for their "N-favorite"  courses, they invariably get an argument as if they had left some indispensable course off the list.

The really interesting issue now with Faxon will be the extent to which he incorporates this respect into his own (limited, thus far) design work.

[A_Clay_Man]

No real surprise. Brad Faxon wrote an article many moons ago (96'?) about the over-watering trend modern golf was taking. He correctly predicted the loss of the "shotmaker" and should probably be the next feature interview on this site. I'd be more interested in his undoubtedly humble opinions on GCA.(Oh that's what that list was) He seems to be going about his education in the proper manner. Is he credited with any design work already? Has he consulted on any?  Hopefully he will get over any obstacles and debut soon.

atta'boy

[Michael Moore]

Faxon & Booth Golf Design, LLC

Newport National Golf Club (Middletown, RI)
Bay Club Mattapoisett (Mattapoisett, MA) under construction
Burnt Mill Country Club(Wells, ME) under construction

[TEPaul]

"Cut the guy some slack. That's a damned good list. He lists ten and people criticize him for leaving off X,Y & Z. There's room for only 10. lf he you asked him for twenty you'd get the answer you are looking for."

Brad:

And in that statement of yours lies the very reason why, in my opinion, the entire ranking process of golf courses, the way it's done, sucks! Too many people are unhappy about the results, too few understand the inherent fallacy in it all, and from the perspective of particular courses it can result in the detrimental architecturally speaking, in the long run too.

Rich Goodale's "Michelin star system" is a far better way to evaluate architecture, as the down-side of 1-10, 1-20, 1-50 or 1-100 numerical competition is not nearly so great!

[THuckaby2]

"Rich Goodale's "Michelin star system" is a far better way to evaluate architecture, as the down-side of 1-10, 1-20, 1-50 or 1-100 numerical competition is not nearly so great!"

Do my eyes deceive me?  The Doyen of Doyens AGREEING with Rich Goodale?

Wow... this is a momentus day.

Actually, I don't think that's the worst idea in the world either, although it won't sell as many magazines.  Still, it is likely the best thing in the interest of the game, so I'm all for it.  Just expand the stars to 5 - three is not enough.

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

TeP- It may be a better way, if better is defined as closed ended.

 With the controversy, the lobbying and hoopla, one can gain insight into the real nature of individual people just from their reaction to the lists. Similar to the way you know someone's character from having golfed with them.

[Michael Moore]

Mr. Huckaby -

You have been brainwashed by the manufacturers of the Momentus weighted club into some questionable spelling!!

[THuckaby2]

Oh man, that is a good one.   Great catch, Michael.  

Interesting... maybe this is a golf/freudian slip?

TH

[Patrick_Mucci]

Shivas,

I think Brad Klein is correct, one does get the impression that you were being critical by referencing the courses he left out.

The problem with your use of the word "omission" is that you don't know which courses he has played, hence you don't know if he omitted a course, or if the course was never on his list for consideration in the first place.  A huge distinction.

If he never played Sand Hills, Friar's Head or Pacific Dunes, those courses shouldn't be viewed as an omission, and neither should his top ten list be viewed as questionable.

TEPaul,

It pains me to agree with you,     but too much emphasis is put on rankings.  

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