[Howard Riefs]

Catchy name.

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/09/get-ready-for-mickelson-nation.html

[Will Lozier]

Catchy name.

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/09/get-ready-for-mickelson-nation.html

Sounds like a great plan!

Mickelson has yet to see the property?!

[DMoriarty]

“We’re not set on 8,000 yards,” Ehlert said. “When Phil gets on site, it could end up being 7,600 yards. The original routing ended up being almost 8,000 yards. But whether it’s 7,600, 7,700 or 7.800 yards, whatever it is, first and foremost it will be a course that the members play every day.”

[BHoover]

FIGJAM National GC has a certain ring to it.

[Sam Morrow]

Those mixed couple events will have a whole new ring with Phil around.

[BHoover]

Sounds like he's "fully invested" in the process, even if he hasn't been on site.

[jeffwarne]

Too bad it's not a publicly traded company.
great short

[Bill Brightly]

Will, David, Brian, Sam and Jeff.

Hope you had fun posting your snarky remarks. Personally, I've heard more intelligent golf course architecture comments from Phil than 99 % of all the other professional golfers. I'm willing to wait and see what influence he has on what might be built.

I do not give a crap what distance a new course measures from the Black tees, I won't have to play from there and neither will you. (Except maybe Jeff...) . But I can understand why a new course might want those tees, especially if they have plans to attract professional events. Can you tell me anything that Phil has said that might lead you to believe he would build a course that was not enjoyable from the members' tees?

[jeffwarne]

Will, David, Brian, Sam and Jeff.

Hope you had fun posting your snarky remarks. Personally, I've heard more intelligent golf course architecture comments from Phil than 99 % of all the other professional golfers. I'm willing to wait and see what influence he has on what might be built.

I do not give a crap what distance a new course measures from the Black tees, I won't have to play from there and neither will you. (Except maybe Jeff...) . But I can understand why a new course might want those tees, especially if they have plans to attract professional events. Can you tell me anything that Phil has said that might lead you to believe he would build a course that was not enjoyable from the members' tees?

Sorry Bill,
It was snarky-was meant to be funny, but in light of the other threads no doubt seemed snarky.
But the article is an absolute cliche fest of the usual quotes of a Canadian Open, etc.
Their first choice was Johnny Miller, now Phil, who's yet to see the site, yet the routing is done.
You may not care about Black tee yardage, but we all have to walk past them-thus increasing the walk, and ultimately someone pays for all that extra real estate.
As I said, if it were a public company, it would be a great short, as would most golf developments

[Bill Brightly]

Jeff,

Playing a perfectly routed course, I take a short walk from all 18 putting greens to the blue tees. As I do this, I have a look back at the blacks and laugh at the long walk those guys have to make...

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

Playing a perfectly routed course, I take a short walk from all 18 putting greens to the blue tees. As I do this, I have a look back at the blacks and laugh at the long walk those guys have to make...

Unless you're behind a group that walks back 18 times. then forward

[Bill Brightly]

Jeff,

Playing a perfectly routed course, I take a short walk from all 18 putting greens to the blue tees. As I do this, I have a look back at the blacks and laugh at the long walk those guys have to make...

Unless you're behind a group that walks back 18 times. then forward

Yeah, that is a problem. But I belong to Saucon Valley where they just played the US Mid Am. We built about eight new "tiger" tees where there was extra space on the SVCC Old course and the rest of the tees remained unchanged. So the walkbacks are limited in number. They do not bother me, except for the times I have to play them in the club championship... Then I play eight par fives and hope to make a few "birdies." Thankfully, very few members actualy play these tees on a regular basis.

I hate the fact the modern equipment dictates that such tees are required for "championship" play, and I look forward to their removal as soon as we roll the ball back.

[Matt_Cohn]

A long walk to the back tees saves me from having to tee off first on every. single. hole. It's kinda nice sometimes.

[Will Lozier]

Will, David, Brian, Sam and Jeff.

Hope you had fun posting your snarky remarks. Personally, I've heard more intelligent golf course architecture comments from Phil than 99 % of all the other professional golfers. I'm willing to wait and see what influence he has on what might be built.

I do not give a crap what distance a new course measures from the Black tees, I won't have to play from there and neither will you. (Except maybe Jeff...) . But I can understand why a new course might want those tees, especially if they have plans to attract professional events. Can you tell me anything that Phil has said that might lead you to believe he would build a course that was not enjoyable from the members' tees?

Bill,

Take my comments as you wish.  I just find it strange that: 1) the routing plan is done and presented publicly while the "architect" has yet to set foot on the property, and 2) they are naming the club after the "architect" who had nothing to do with said routing who has yet to see the property.  That doesn't seem strange to you?  Seriously.

Yes, I am quite cynical about this cliche-filled-everything-that-is-wrong-with-GCA proposal.  Even more than the yardage, the number of water hazards makes this place seem awful, whether or not those lakes are natural or not.  At the very least, don't reveal your routing - one of the most important jobs of the architect - at the same time that you unveil the name of the new "architect" whom you've also just renamed your entire club after....who had nothing to do with the routing!!!!!!!!

Cheers

[Greg Holland]

Some stout par 5s on that routing.  Are 650 yard par 5s a new trend?

[Tim Gavrich]

That might be the funniest case of "vanity yardage" I've seen on a scorecard mockup. For anyone who actually plays those way-back tees, it'll feel like the shortest 8,000 yard course in the world because that caliber of player will have a short iron third shot (650 = 275 + 225 + 150 or 300 + 240 + 110) into all four of those par fives, assuming they're relatively flat.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Jeff,

Playing a perfectly routed course, I take a short walk from all 18 putting greens to the blue tees. As I do this, I have a look back at the blacks and laugh at the long walk those guys have to make...

Unless you're behind a group that walks back 18 times. then forward

Anyway, in this particular case, the black furthest back tee is the closest to the previous green on 17 out of the 18 walks, thus making it a monster for everyone who plays it.

Will - I don't know a single pro golfer / celebrity architect who actually takes the lead on a routing plan. So although they made a faux pas in publically showing the routing whilst stating that Mickelson had not been on site yet, it is far from unusual. In fact, it's fairly normal.

[Will Lozier]

Jeff,

Playing a perfectly routed course, I take a short walk from all 18 putting greens to the blue tees. As I do this, I have a look back at the blacks and laugh at the long walk those guys have to make...

Unless you're behind a group that walks back 18 times. then forward

Anyway, in this particular case, the black furthest back tee is the closest to the previous green on 17 out of the 18 walks, thus making it a monster for everyone who plays it.

Will - I don't know a single pro golfer / celebrity architect who actually takes the lead on a routing plan. So although they made a faux pas in publically showing the routing whilst stating that Mickelson had not been on site yet, it is far from unusual. In fact, it's fairly normal.

Ally,

Very true and not a fact I would ever try to argue with.  But, very few of those course are named after the architect...let alone ________ National!

Cheers

[MClutterbuck]

Jeff,

Playing a perfectly routed course, I take a short walk from all 18 putting greens to the blue tees. As I do this, I have a look back at the blacks and laugh at the long walk those guys have to make...

Unless you're behind a group that walks back 18 times. then forward

Anyway, in this particular case, the black furthest back tee is the closest to the previous green on 17 out of the 18 walks, thus making it a monster for everyone who plays it.

Will - I don't know a single pro golfer / celebrity architect who actually takes the lead on a routing plan. So although they made a faux pas in publically showing the routing whilst stating that Mickelson had not been on site yet, it is far from unusual. In fact, it's fairly normal.

Not my experience with Greg Norman. While he did start from a previously drawn proposed routing from topo and aerials that he might have had less input on, he reworked routing extensively and drew the routing by hand, with calculations to reduce earthworks from the initial proposal. The routing of 13 holes was completely his, on site, on foot.

The release of a routing prior to Mickelson visiting speaks badly of the developer or Mickelson's involvement.

[Tom_Doak]

Will - I don't know a single pro golfer / celebrity architect who actually takes the lead on a routing plan. So although they made a faux pas in publically showing the routing whilst stating that Mickelson had not been on site yet, it is far from unusual. In fact, it's fairly normal.

Not my experience with Greg Norman. While he did start from a previously drawn proposed routing from topo and aerials that he might have had less input on, he reworked routing extensively and drew the routing by hand, with calculations to reduce earthworks from the initial proposal. The routing of 13 holes was completely his, on site, on foot.

Marcos:

That's interesting, and unusual.  How different was the routing, though?  Did it stay in the same corridors and just change the positions of greens and the lengths of holes, or did it go in different directions?  It's much harder to devise a routing than to revise one, and the pro golfer / designers are much more qualified to do the latter, indeed that is the way most of them work [although they rarely do the drawings themselves].

[MClutterbuck]

Will - I don't know a single pro golfer / celebrity architect who actually takes the lead on a routing plan. So although they made a faux pas in publically showing the routing whilst stating that Mickelson had not been on site yet, it is far from unusual. In fact, it's fairly normal.

Not my experience with Greg Norman. While he did start from a previously drawn proposed routing from topo and aerials that he might have had less input on, he reworked routing extensively and drew the routing by hand, with calculations to reduce earthworks from the initial proposal. The routing of 13 holes was completely his, on site, on foot.

Marcos:

That's interesting, and unusual.  How different was the routing, though?  Did it stay in the same corridors and just change the positions of greens and the lengths of holes, or did it go in different directions?  It's much harder to devise a routing than to revise one, and the pro golfer / designers are much more qualified to do the latter, indeed that is the way most of them work [although they rarely do the drawings themselves].

Tom:

While he obviously spends a lot less time than you would on site, he was very thorough. Given we did not design any other component of the master plan until the best golf corridors were set, he had total liberty to shift things around.

He switched directions for holes 2 and 3 and shifted them slightly. He changed #8 from an average par 3 to a beautiful par 5, and #9 from an edgy par 5 to an impressive par 3 framed by 30 foot rocks. In making these changes, corridors were altered significantly. More importantly, he completely changed 10-17 in direction and into new corridors.

Norman was very worried about playability in the original routing and very focused on reducing earthworks and finding natural green areas and bowls. He set out late on foot for 1 more loop around, when everybody else was ready to call it a day due to cold and a snowstorm coming. I followed alone, He was very thorough in coming up with an entirely new routing for the back 9 and his reasoning proved exactly right once earthwork quantities were recalculated.

His sketches were preliminary and rough, I would not say he actually drew any highly detailed plans at that time, but his routing work was very valuable (in as much as a non professional like me can tell). As you might recall, this is not an easy site.

Marcos

[Wayne_Kozun]

Regarding the yardage - don't forget that Calgary is at a decent altitude of about 3500 ft so the distance will play less than what it seems.

The word is that the RCGA has been wanting to hold the Canadian Open in Calgary for a while but there aren't any suitable courses in the city.  A course like this would solve that problem and it would give the course instant prestige since it holds a PGA Tour event.

There are a ton of wealthy people in Calgary thanks to the oil boom so filling the club, or tee sheet if it is CCFAD, shouldn't be a problem.

[Mike Bowen]

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/09/10/phil-mickelson-envisions-family-first-at-his-calgary-golf-club


Thoughts.  Also noticed that the routing has changed based on the picture behind Phil in the article and the one that was previously posted on this thread.

[Jim Nugent]

The new routing cuts back greatly on water: if average golfers choose the right tee, water only comes into play a few times.  Final distance from the tips is 7718 yards -- the equivalent of 7300 to 7400 at that altitude?  Shorter tees mean length should not be much of an issue. 

The course is the centerpiece of a new modern community called Harmony.  Its website says, "Harmony is a thoughtfully planned, mixed-use village that sets a new standard for better living with visionary practices in social, economic and environmental sustainability. A visionary 1,700-acre village concept featuring a self-contained water system, recreational lake and a 18-hole championship golf course. With plans for a health centre, schools, water treatment systems, an employment campus, and state of the art environmental and water conservation methods, Harmony will bring benefits to residents through the entire region."

[Mike Bowen]

They have definitely managed to hit all of the buzz words on this project.  Family, young kids, enjoyable for all skill levels, nuance, too difficult, too time consuming, and grow the game to name a few.  Someone needs to create a drinking game for golf projects.   

This project isn't my cup of tea but if it brings the Canadian Open to my home province then that's great.  I don't like how this project is being essentially advertised in the media.  The bottom of this article should probably say "ADVERTISING."  The headline to the article as well as calling it a benefit for Calgary as a whole is humorous to me.

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