The Open returns to Carnoustie in 2007

[Paul_Turner]

I'm a big fan of Carnoustie, but it's only in the middle in terms of quality on the British rota.  Some great holes but a few,nice, but not special ones.  Not in the top 10 links in GBI.

[Matt_Ward]

Paul:

You beg the quesiton -- how bout listing your top ten in Britain -- links or otherwise?

Inquiring minds want to know ...

[ForkaB]

Paul T

I, too would be interested in which links you rate higher than Carnoustie and why?  You can used the criteria I have listed, or others of your own, if you wish.

Tom H

There are c. 20,000 restaurants in France.  Of those, 15,000 are not deemed worthy enough by Michelin to be put in the Red Guide (although most of those 15,000 would blow the socks off just about anything in Silicon Valley!).  This is Category 1.

Of the remaining top 5,000 restaurants, 4,500 are given no stars.  This is category 2.

Of the 500 starred restaurants, about 350 are given 1*, 100 2**, and 50 3***.  These are categories 3-5.

Comprenez-vous?

[Mike Hendren]

Short left of the 5th green. Angle of approach from right.


Short right of the 5th.  Angle of approach is on line through pin toward gentleman in background. Green is 57 yards deep with back left pin placement behind bunker beyond pin impossible to access for mere mortals.


All world 2nd that gets little pub.  One of the few "beautiful" holes at Carnoustie.  Right rough from about 150 out.  Putting surface extends front/left to the left hand edge of the greenside bunker left.  From there, I faced a dogleg putt around said bunker.  


From right side of 10th green toward 11th tee.  A rather pedestrian hole, but challenging when putting through hail that accumulates on the ball, increasing it's diameter by 1/2 inch by the time it reaches the hole!


The often photographed 13th.  Today's pin location is front right.  Another visually stunning golf hole.  Accomodates a worm burned 6-iron into a gale if kept left.  Trust me.


6th green from the 7th tee.  Pin is extreme back right, bringing all kinds of numbers into play.  Beautiful.  In my limited travels, one of the greatest underrated par 5's on the planet.


Mike

[Paul_Turner]

Matt and Rich

My top 10 links no particular order:

RCD
Ballybunion
Muirfield
Dornoch
Portrush
Sandwich
Rye
Lytham
St Andrews
Portmarnock
(I haven't played Turnberry)

I'd probably have Carnoustie next.

The holes that don't do much for me at Carnoustie: 4,7,10,16 all of which are difficult but don't create any affection.  The course doesn't feel very links like in places (9,10) and it is somewhat ugly, even Lytham is a better looker.  The par 3s don't compare favourably with those on the other courses I've picked.  The par 5s are however excellent as are most of the 4s.   Not as much variety of stance as many of the other links, BB, Rye, RCD, Portrush, TOC, Dornoch.  The course lacks excitement and quirk-apart from the Spectacles and the burn on the 17th.  I agree that the routing is excellent at Carnoustie, but it's no better than any of those above.  Nor is the hole variety, in fact I find it has less variety than those above.  
The fairway bunkering is often unattractive, they pop up out of the ground (see the newish one on the 5th) and are not nearly as well formed as those at other flat links: Muirfield, Lytham.  
Standout holes at Carnoustie: 2,3,5,6,14,15,17

[THuckaby2]

Tom H

There are c. 20,000 restaurants in France.  Of those, 15,000 are not deemed worthy enough by Michelin to be put in the Red Guide (although most of those 15,000 would blow the socks off just about anything in Silicon Valley!).  This is Category 1.

Of the remaining top 5,000 restaurants, 4,500 are given no stars.  This is category 2.

Of the 500 starred restaurants, about 350 are given 1*, 100 2**, and 50 3***.  These are categories 3-5.

Comprenez-vous?

Yes, I continue to understand.
Yes, I continue to think it's a gutless and boring sytstem when used to assess golf courses.
And even if this now gets it to five categories, it still remains light on the differentiation - I know what seven.  It also ignores far too many great restaurants/courses - category 1 ought to have at least 5 sub-caegories within it if this is to have any worth.

But I also understand it works for YOU.  No question about that!

(add similies - cluess why they don't work)

Comprende?

TH

[Mike Hendren]

Man even when I try to be a prick I can't actually pull it off, using a horrid leap of logic!

Don't sell yourself short, Tom.  You are a terrific prick

Mike

[Matt_Ward]

Paul:

Appreciate your list -- can you one more thing -- knock it down to your top five and in order. I'd be curious to see whether the Scottish or Irish flavor gets your top spots.

One last thing -- can you tell me why Rye gets soooooo little attention and acclaim? I know we discussed this at Golf House / re: Bahto's presentation.

Thanks ...

[George Pazin]

Matt -

I asked that question awhile back and I seem to recall the answer was the unusual par and lack of length. Still ranks in my top 5 wanna plays in GBI, though.

[THuckaby2]

Mike H - I'm a tremendous slouch as well!

Re Rye, George has it right - most can't get past the less than 70 par.  But I'm also with George in that it's in my top 5 most want to sees also, for me only because shivas calls it his #1 on the planet!

Now re Carnoustie.. Mike's pics are great, as are Paul's words.  Man as I say I did come away with a huge appreciation of the course last summer, but... there is just enough, as Paul says, to make it fall short of the very top.  For me it's the sorta parkland, blah feel of 9-10-11, though it sure as hell does kick into gear from there and 12-18 are all superb.  But that little corner of parkland is enough, that's all... and the funny thing also is each hole is pretty darn good 9-10-11 - just not great, that's all.

[Doug Siebert]

Nice pics, Mike!

Seeing the hail on the 10th green made me laugh....last time I played there it was a hard rain for the first 15 holes, and I three putted #10 from 20 feet because of the large and rather deep puddles that intervened.  I'm sure I've never hit a flat putt of any length harder and yet I still left it about 8 feet short!

That #10 green is underrated if you've only played it when it is dry