What did Watson do wrong ?

[Phil McDade]

You didn't attempt to correlate to overall team winning records.

I will run this by my two-year-advanced math 14-year-old high schooler and get back to you.

[Garland Bayley]

Phil,

It may be just be that the US has such a plethora of talent that the turnover on the team is so high that the Europeans win simply by their players having much more Ryder Cup experience.

Run that by your 14 year-old.

[A.G._Crockett]

The thread has become one about why the US doesn't win the Ryder Cup, and of course there are multiple answers to that; if there was only one reason, there wouldn't be a discussion and there would be a clear path for the US to change things.  

The simplest reason that the Euros have been winning is that they are better at the top of their lineup, and have been for awhile.  You don't have to be better 1-12; if you have 6 guys who can contribute 2 points each, you only need a little bit from the other guys to win.  This may not change anytime soon; if you take the best player from England and the best player from Ireland and the best player from Germany and the best player from Scotland and the best player from France and the best player from Spain, there's your 6 guys right there.  Throw in the second best from each of those countries, plus Denmark, Italy, and so on, and the US is going to have it pretty tough.  The competition isn't between the top 100 in each; it's only 12.

A.G.:

While I agree with much of your sentiments about Watson, I'd differ that Euro has relied on a top-heavy line-up during its years of success in the Ryder Cup. Euro has almost always gotten significant contributions -- often in crucial moments -- from down-lineup players over the years:

-- Dubuisson won 3 points last month, including a singles win, and anyone who saw him play noticed it wasn't just McDowell carrying him during foursomes play.
-- Donaldson won 3 points, including a pretty big spanking of Bradley in singles.
-- Paul Lawrie has been one of Euro's best players in the Ryder Cup -- one of the few to come through in '99 in singles, and another huge singles win at Medinah. Colsaerts single-handedly won a fourballs match at Medinah with Tiger throwing everything at him with something like a 62 on his own ball, and of course had a big singles win.
-- Jimenez took down Bubba in singles in 2010; Rocca took down Tiger in '97.
-- David Howell, Philip Price, Thomas Levet, Paul McGinley, Mark James, Howard Clark, and Philip Walton have all had big singles wins on the last day that were crucial to Euro winning.

That's not a little bit of winning; it's a lot. I'd argue Euro's down-lineup has consistently outperformed the U.S. down-lineup in the last two decades.

Phil,
I didn't say the bottom half of the Euro lineup hadn't contributed!  I said that if your top six are really strong and can just account for two points each, you only NEED a little help from the bottom.  To get more than a little, as the Euros consistently have, is a huge bonus.

It's like a basketball team with a great post player, a great point guard, and a great shooter; they're going to be in every game if the other guys can just do the little things.  If the other guys, though, are really, really good too, then you're onto something.  Think the San Antonio Spurs; they'd be really, really good with Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili and any other 4-12 roster in the NBA.  But throw in Leonard, Green, Splitter, and so on and you've got a great team.  I see the Euros that way; they've got the single best golfer from each of a half dozen countries; throw in the second best as well and look out!

[Tim_Cronin]

Meanwhile, looks like Ted Bishop will have to buy a ticket to the next Ryder Cup.

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/10/in-wake-of-poulter-comments-pg.html

Bishop's statement: I want to apologize to Ian Poulter and anyone else that I might have offended with my remarks on social media that appeared on October 23, 2014. Particularly, I have great remorse that my comments contained the words “little girl” because I have always been a great advocate for girls and women in golf.

My two children, both girls, have made their careers in golf. I have a 4-year old granddaughter who I hope will someday play the game. In my 37-year career in golf, I have worked with many women to grow the sport and I have been a champion for inclusion and equal rights for women in golf.

However, this is a classic example of poor use of social media on my part and if I had the chance to hit the delete button on the things that I sent out yesterday, I would without hesitation. The PGA of America asked me to avoid any interaction with the media in the past 24 hours and that is why I did not issue a formal and public apology, which I have wanted to do since early this morning.

This afternoon I was asked by my fellow Officers to resign my position as President. I declined because I wanted to speak to our PGA Board of Directors, offer a personal apology and let the due process take place in this matter. The Board heard me out and then voted to impeach me as the 38th President. That is the due process and I respect that, as painful as it might be.

The PGA has also informed me that I will not become the Honorary President nor will I ever be recognized as a Past President in our Association’s history. These, along with the impeachment are drastic consequences for the offense I have committed, but I must live with them. I take great pride in what we were able to accomplish in the last 23 months. Hopefully, we laid the groundwork for a successful future for the PGA of America. Today, all I have left is my PGA membership and that will always mean the world to me.

Ted Bishop, PGA     

[Jon Wiggett]

Tim,

Ted will probably still get free tickets but what a circus at the USPGA at the moment.

Jon

[Tony_Muldoon]

Does the term "impeach" seem a little overblown here? Granted, it's probably a correct use of the term, literally, but he's representing a professional sporting organisation - not exactly a public figure. How can he no longer be recognised as a  past President? He IS a past President. Silly, macho remark from him - I know nothing about the man except that he seems to have the support of the players - there is surely "previous" here...

Agreed and that statement is about as classy as it could be in the circumstances.   

I know nothing of the man but it strikes me the original offending post was likely made in anger when he reverted to language more commonly used when he was a child.  There's been a lot of flak in the past few weeks and he must have been pretty fed up.   A lesson to us all about being too quick to type and press 'send'. This will live with him to the end of his days.

[Niall C]

... the Euros think it's more important than winning a major.

I think that is highly unlikely.

Then why do so many major-less Euro Ryder Cup players keep performing better in this competition against major-winning US players?

Phil

Let me suggest that major-less Euro's are at least just as good as the major-winning Americans, week in week out and not just at the Ryder Cup. While using the number of majors won is how we judge the great players, who in the main are international players, quite a few of the European team largely play in Europe which is a real disadvantage in terms of competing in majors since 3 of the majors are effectively on the US tour while the other major is played on links which is largely alien to both sets of players in terms of what they are used to playing on a weekly basis. I think this was the case back when the Ryder Cup started getting competitive with Seve etc. I don't think much has changed.

For instance even getting into the majors back then was a struggle and it is a real eye opener to see how few US majors that someone like Sam Torrance played in, and this was a guy who spent over a decade near the pinnacle of the European game.

Niall

[Terry Lavin]

Well, they're probably as good as Simpson and Bradley, a pair of minor major winners of ever there was one!

[jeffwarne]

Yes, it's very sad. It's easy to paint someone like that with the "blue blazer, country club type" brush, but there is probably a lot more to the man than that and reading the reaction to the players confirms this to be the case. He may not have been the best "President of the PGA", but so what? Everyone needs to calm down and get real - this is a game! And I include Mickelson in that with all of his talk of pods and making life really difficult for Watson in recent weeks - as if it wasn't difficult enough.

Mind numbingly amazing attack of political correctness.
Bishop may well have already been on the ropes.
Perhaps too much time grandstanding and not enough on the future of the fate of the rank and file PGA member finally took its toll.
A simple sincere well written clarification and apology to the offended women of the world should've been enough.
Unless  something else was brewing for a long time.

[Ronald Montesano]

I don't know if this has been said in the previous 11.5 pages of the thread, but this notion came clear today:

Azinger may have been successful because he employed a captaining structure (the behavior pods) that was external to him.

Watson's captaining style was internal to him; he motivated the team the way he motivates himself, the way successful captains/coaches have motivated him.

[A.G._Crockett]

I don't know if this has been said in the previous 11.5 pages of the thread, but this notion came clear today:

Azinger may have been successful because he employed a captaining structure (the behavior pods) that was external to him.

Watson's captaining style was internal to him; he motivated the team the way he motivates himself, the way successful captains/coaches have motivated him.

Ronald, this is a terrific thought.  I've not heard it put that way before, but I like it.

[Garland Bayley]

Hard to accurately cover an event if your source is a liar.

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2014/10/9/6951403/brandel-chamblee-phil-mickelson-ryder-cup-press-conference

I think Chamblee is spot on here...succinct and honest.

I must have missed something; nobody who was actually there has contradicted Mickelson, have they?  ...

You may have missed something, because people of good character don't like to air their dirty laundry in public. Now Phil aired dirty laundry in public, whereas, Tom put forth an apology like a person of character would. Did Phil put forth a similar apology?

Now we see that someone "actually there has contradicted Mickelson".
“I thought Tom did a great job of talking to the guys,” Fowler said, according to The Telegraph. “He has been there plenty of times, and I enjoyed the time I got to spend with him. I respect him; he is a legend within the game. Some things may have gotten blown a little bit out of proportion. But obviously we didn’t play as well as we needed to in order to win.”

[Ryan Coles]

Hard to accurately cover an event if your source is a liar.

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2014/10/9/6951403/brandel-chamblee-phil-mickelson-ryder-cup-press-conference

I think Chamblee is spot on here...succinct and honest.

I must have missed something; nobody who was actually there has contradicted Mickelson, have they?  ...

You may have missed something, because people of good character don't like to air their dirty laundry in public. Now Phil aired dirty laundry in public, whereas, Tom put forth an apology like a person of character would. Did Phil put forth a similar apology?

Now we see that someone "actually there has contradicted Mickelson".
“I thought Tom did a great job of talking to the guys,” Fowler said, according to The Telegraph. “He has been there plenty of times, and I enjoyed the time I got to spend with him. I respect him; he is a legend within the game. Some things may have gotten blown a little bit out of proportion. But obviously we didn’t play as well as we needed to in order to win.”

I think Watson described to the press that Phil had texted him pleading to play on Saturday afternoon. I don't class this or what Phil said as airing dirty laundry, however both effectively breached each others confidence.

I like Fowler, but his quote is the usual clap-trap platitude that golfers come out with. Replace Watson with Sutton, Love, Lehman, Pavin and all the players say the same old nonsense after each biannual hiding.

Just like the opening ceremony about "playing the game in the spirit that Samuel Ryder intended". Golfers have mastered the art of saying a lot, without ever saying anything, ever. It was refreshing to see Phil say what was on his mind, albeit semi cryptically. Watson was an old grouch - save for wearing a silly hat, he was as bad as Hal Sutton.

[Garland Bayley]

... Watson was an old grouch ...

Imagine that. Ryan Coles calling someone a grouch.

Old curmudgeon GJ

[Ryan Coles]

... Watson was an old grouch ...

Imagine that. Ryan Coles calling someone a grouch.

Old curmudgeon GJ

I know. Worrying thing is I'm only 34. What will I be like at his age? To be fair he's a bit better at golf than me, though I reckon I could drink him under the table.

[JMEvensky]

I know. Worrying thing is I'm only 34. What will I be like at his age? To be fair he's a bit better at golf than me, though I reckon I could drink him under the table.

Doubt it.

[Ryan Coles]

I know I stick up for Mickelson a fair bit, but I appreciate he can be annoying.

When he won the masters and hugged his kids: to the camera "thanks for sharing this with me you guys"

They're 6 & 8, Phil. They had no say in it, you flew them there.

[Ryan Coles]

I know. Worrying thing is I'm only 34. What will I be like at his age? To be fair he's a bit better at golf than me, though I reckon I could drink him under the table.

Doubt it.

No really he is. He's won majors.

[JMEvensky]

I know. Worrying thing is I'm only 34. What will I be like at his age? To be fair he's a bit better at golf than me, though I reckon I could drink him under the table.

Doubt it.

No really he is. He's won majors.

Touche'.

[Howard Riefs]

Golf Digest runs a tell-all about what Watson did wrong....

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/2015-02/ryder-cup-meltdown-jaime-diaz

[Marc Haring]

OT but whoooah 

[Garland Bayley]

"The unease continued during the matches. Mickelson and Bradley won their opening four-ball (best-ball) match on Friday and were expected to rest during the afternoon foursomes (alternate shot), mostly because the thick rough wasn't conducive to Mickelson's often-erratic driving. But late in the morning match, Mickelson told Watson that he had charted his foursomes matches over his last five years of Ryder Cups and Presidents Cups, and claimed that on his driving holes he had missed only three fairways.

It was a classic Mickelson exaggeration, but Watson sat the young and eager Jordan Spieth and Patrick Reed to go with Mickelson and Bradley, 4-0 at that point in two Ryder Cups. "

So much for FIGJAM's claim that players had no input!

Note, that in a Golf magazine article, PGA Pres. Bishop related that the plan had always been to sit Reed on Friday afternoon, because he had had very poor practice sessions coming in.

[Garland Bayley]

It's been five months since Phil Mickelson made his infamous comments about the methods of U.S. Ryder Cup captains, but people are still weighing in. The latest is Lee Trevino.

In an interview with Golf.com, Trevino said Mickelson should have kept his mouth shut after yet another U.S. loss to the Europeans.

"I thought it would have come out a lot better from someone like Patrick Reed, who went 3-0-1, instead of a guy who has been a part of so many losing teams," Trevino said. "If I had a losing record in the Ryder Cup, I'd keep my mouth shut."

Mickelson has played on 10 Ryder Cup teams, compiling a 16-19-6 record as the U.S. went 2-8. Trevino, 75, was 17-7-6 in six Ryder Cups.

Trevino was especially irked at the criticism of last year's U.S. captain, Tom Watson.

“Tom Watson is a good friend of mine,” Trevino said. “I’ve got a hell of a lot of respect for the guy, and I was really angry about the way they treated him [after the U.S. team lost, 16 1/2 to 11 1/2]. I don’t know what went on behind the scenes, but the players have to understand he worked his butt off for two years and all they did was show up and go play."

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/trevino-says-mickelson-should-have-shut-about-watson/

[jeffwarne]

It's been five months since Phil Mickelson made his infamous comments about the methods of U.S. Ryder Cup captains, but people are still weighing in. The latest is Lee Trevino.

In an interview with Golf.com, Trevino said Mickelson should have kept his mouth shut after yet another U.S. loss to the Europeans.

"I thought it would have come out a lot better from someone like Patrick Reed, who went 3-0-1, instead of a guy who has been a part of so many losing teams," Trevino said. "If I had a losing record in the Ryder Cup, I'd keep my mouth shut."

Mickelson has played on 10 Ryder Cup teams, compiling a 16-19-6 record as the U.S. went 2-8. Trevino, 75, was 17-7-6 in six Ryder Cups.

Trevino was especially irked at the criticism of last year's U.S. captain, Tom Watson.

“Tom Watson is a good friend of mine,” Trevino said. “I’ve got a hell of a lot of respect for the guy, and I was really angry about the way they treated him [after the U.S. team lost, 16 1/2 to 11 1/2]. I don’t know what went on behind the scenes, but the players have to understand he worked his butt off for two years and all they did was show up and go play."

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/trevino-says-mickelson-should-have-shut-about-watson/

+1 Trevino