[Jason Topp]

12 is a good solid par five but one of the more conventional holes on the course.  The green was extremely firm last weekend.


13 is one of the more interesting holes on an interesting course.  I don't think there is a clear winner with respect to choice of where you hit your tee shot.  Each choice has positives and negatives which to me is the sign of a good hole.  I really like blindness as a strategic consideration.  I don't know anything about the far right position - I have not been up there since before they put in the bunkers.   

A bunch of christmas trees used to be behind the 14th green.  Once again, I think the green appears more difficult to hit without the trees behind them.  I wonder it the hole could be made more interesting without the standard 4:00/8:00 bunkering.  Then again - I am not sure it needs to be more interesting.

[PCCraig]

Fifteenth hole, 553 yards, “Dale”;

The fifteenth is a slight dogleg right par five that plays over 550 yards. Off the tee the player has the choice to either play out to the left and short to the widest portion of the fairway or play aggressively over the trees on the right in order to carry a fairway banker and reach the green in two shots.

A more conservative player will have this view for his second shot.  The aggressive player will have to carry the bunker on the right, or due to the fairway sloping right-to-left in the landing area, the ball will likely roll left into the rough. 

The green on this par five is interestingly placed at the bottom of a steep, but short, hill about 25 feet below most of the hole. Therefore, a player laying up to just 100 yards away from the green is still met with a blind approach.

Yet in just another 25 yards, the green is in full view.

Looking back at the fairway from the green, the slope short of the putting surface is more evident. It is also the primary strategic element in the hole. For example, on their approach, players must decide on whether they want to fly the ball onto the green, or land their ball short and run it down the slope.

The putting surface is shaped much like a sidewise saddle, with the front portion sloping away from the line of play, while the back portion slopes toward the middle of the green. An additional general tilt toward the river (left to right as looking from the fairway) makes this a very difficult green to read.

Sixteenth hole, 521 yards, “Far Away”;

Local golfer Tom Lehman once proclaimed this was the worse golf hole he’d ever played after making a ten on this hole to lose the State Amateur…after being pin high in two shots! The sixteenth is the most reachable of the par fives on the back. The tee shot is uphill and a player must skirt a deep fairway bunker on the left, however once past the hazard the hole plays steadily downhill to the green.

The view of the approach from the middle of the fairway shows another partially blind shot toward the green. Most players will hit a long iron or fairway wood favoring the right side of fairway.

Players laying up will be faced with a downhill shot off a downhill lie to a small kidney shaped green.

A closer view of the green shows the wide approach on the right side of the green, however a deep greenside bunker lurks with short grass more easily allowing balls to trickle in.

Looking back on the approach shows the downhill nature of the hole as well as the cant in the fairway that requires players trying to reach the hole in two to favor the east side of the fairway.

Seventeenth hole, 551 yards, “Ben S”;

Named after the member who designed the first 18 hole golf course on the property, the seventeenth is the third par five in a row. From the back tee of this dogleg left, a player must hit their drive over a swale in the fairway.

Well hit drives will find this view for an approach from the middle of the fairway.

A difficult hole to reach in two shots, most aggressive players will try to get their second shots as close to the green as possible. The putting surface is very severe with a pronounced back-to-front slope and very little room to miss as the green is very shallow. In addition to a hazard behind the green, there is also a false front which makes approach shots difficult to judge, even with just a wedge.

A view from the left side of the hole shows the shallow, yet wide, nature of the seventeenth green.

Walking off the seventeenth green, a player walks down from the elevated green toward the eighteenth tee.

Eighteenth hole, 170 yards, “Home”;

Walking down from the seventeenth hole, tired from playing three par fives in a row, the player gets his first glimpse of the par three finishing hole.

A difficult par three considering the yardage, most players will hit a mid-iron toward the green that slopes severely from the back-left to the front-right.

An enjoyable way to finish a match, the eighteenth hole yields just as many double bogeys as birdies.

From the green, the player is rewarded with a nice vista which includes the first fairway, tempting the player to give it another go immediately. 

[Dan Kelly]

Pat, is it ever really possible to have a ball roll down the hill on 15 and stay on the green? I certainly wish it were. Balls that bounced down the hill to the green went through the green on Sunday into the back rough. I dropped the ball at the top of the slope and it rolled over the green into the rough. Just curious.

I really like it that more of the hillside is being mowed to Fairway Heights now, but it loses some of its charm if you can't bounce a ball onto the green.

I like 16 and 17 it just fine as they are, and I think 18 is a great finishing hole.

One more note: you often refer to the more conservative player; what I think you mean is shorter player. Town & Country looks very, very different to me, for example, than it does to you and Shane Wright, regardless of how conservative or risk taking we might be.

[Terry Lavin]

Great looking golf course on an impressive piece of property. It looks overtreed, but many courses come off that way on photographs. I was struck by the three straight par 5's (15-17) sandwiched by two par 3's (14 and 18). That's pretty unusual in my experience.

[Dan Kelly]

Great looking golf course on an impressive piece of property. It looks overtreed, but many courses come off that way on photographs. I was struck by the three straight par 5's (15-17) sandwiched by two par 3's (14 and 18). That's pretty unusual in my experience.

Terry, I don't think Town & Country is really overtreed, other than those trees behind the third green and the arborvitae behind the 18th green I would take out some others, but not too many trees Clog  the golf course. The biggest masses of trees are along the edges of the property, where shots out of bounds would find heavy traffic very often. My guess is that they have prevented lots of broken windshields.

Let us put it this way: Town & Country is considerably less overtreed than it used to be.

[Phil McDade]

Pat:

Just a quick note of thanks for posting this -- a course I've driven by hundreds of times but never played. It reminds me a lot of Blackhawk CC here in the Madison WI area -- a course full of quirks but a lot of good architecture on a very constrained and rollicking site:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41775.0.html

[Jason Topp]

My commentary:

15:  A friend and I both had 100 yard approaches to the green.  He hit a good shot that landed in the middle of the green.  I hit mine fat.  We both ended up with a nasty chip from the rough behind the green.  The course was extremely firm and I have not experienced a similar effect in past visits.

16.  - My favorite of the 3 par fives in a row.  I am not sure of the yardage but it is reachable with some helping wind.  The slopes create significant interest on both the tee shot and 2nd.

17 - very severe green.  Its condition has improved greatly after removing trees behind it.

18 - I really enjoy finishing with a par 3.  Perhaps that is because it is a novelty but it seems to create more drama to end matches.

To me Town and Country is a wonderful experience.  I don't think one should think of its quality in terms of whether it is better or worse than others.  If forced to make that sort of ranking, I would rank many courses in the area much more highly. 

However, I am starting to think of the quality of golf courses in terms of a menu of diffierent options.  No one ranks different food choices.  One person might like steak and another person pasta.  Most, like to alternate between those choices and are happy with either as long as it is well prepared and interesting.

Town and County is like a unique menu option that can expand your sense of what a fun golf course experience should be. You will hit shots at Town and Country that you do not hit anywhere else.  You will think your way through the entire round.  You will need to hit good shots, avoid the trouble spots and take your medicine in situations where you have screwed up.   Many of these types of experiences have been eliminated in an effort to create homogonous experiences that fit within the expectations of the golfer of what constitutes quality golf.  Town and Country is more like a unique botique experience that most will love, some will hate and all will remember.

[PCCraig]

Great looking golf course on an impressive piece of property. It looks overtreed, but many courses come off that way on photographs. I was struck by the three straight par 5's (15-17) sandwiched by two par 3's (14 and 18). That's pretty unusual in my experience.

Terry, I don't think Town & Country is really overtreed, other than those trees behind the third green and the arborvitae behind the 18th green I would take out some others, but not too many trees Clog  the golf course. The biggest masses of trees are along the edges of the property, where shots out of bounds would find heavy traffic very often. My guess is that they have prevented lots of broken windshields.

Let us put it this way: Town & Country is considerably less overtreed than it used to be.

Terry,

Thank you for your comment. The golf course at T&C sits an a really great piece of property. It's very small (~95 acres) but it's general slope toward the mighty Mississippi allows for the site to drain exceptionally well and for the course to play pretty consistently firm. Also a big asset are the internal contours of the site...I think others will attest to the fact that photos don't quite to justice to the severity of the different swales, hills, and features.

I would agree with you, in that in my personal opinion, the course is still overtreed. Dan is correct in that it is less overtreed than it used to be, however additional removals would continue to do wonders in clearing up internal vistas and further allowing the property's inherent features to come more alive and be more visually stunning. 

[PCCraig]

To me Town and Country is a wonderful experience.  I don't think one should think of its quality in terms of whether it is better or worse than others.  If forced to make that sort of ranking, I would rank many courses in the area much more highly. 

However, I am starting to think of the quality of golf courses in terms of a menu of diffierent options.  No one ranks different food choices.  One person might like steak and another person pasta.  Most, like to alternate between those choices and are happy with either as long as it is well prepared and interesting.

Town and County is like a unique menu option that can expand your sense of what a fun golf course experience should be. You will hit shots at Town and Country that you do not hit anywhere else.  You will think your way through the entire round.  You will need to hit good shots, avoid the trouble spots and take your medicine in situations where you have screwed up.   Many of these types of experiences have been eliminated in an effort to create homogeneous experiences that fit within the expectations of the golfer of what constitutes quality golf.  Town and Country is more like a unique boutique experience that most will love, some will hate and all will remember.

Jason,

Thank you for this fantastic commentary. I think you really hit the nail on the head.

Town & Country is ultimately a unique, quirky, and interesting experience. I don't know if anyone is going to say that it is a better or more architecturally sound golf course than say, Interlachen or Minikahda, but it excels as a it's own "flavor." The course is still very much a throwback and many of the holes, as you've noted above, make no logical sense in a tradtional GCA-way of thinking, but it just kind of works.

My personal tastes skew toward classic golf courses, and more quirky ones at that. There are plenty of courses that offer a more straightforward challenge, but I quickly bore of straight par-4's over 400 yards that travel through a typical parkland setting. The main reason that I choose to call Town & Country my home course is that every time I play I always find the holes interesting, and most importantly: fun!

[PCCraig]

Pat, is it ever really possible to have a ball roll down the hill on 15 and stay on the green? I certainly wish it were. Balls that bounced down the hill to the green went through the green on Sunday into the back rough. I dropped the ball at the top of the slope and it rolled over the green into the rough. Just curious.

I really like it that more of the hillside is being mowed to Fairway Heights now, but it loses some of its charm if you can't bounce a ball onto the green.

I like 16 and 17 it just fine as they are, and I think 18 is a great finishing hole.

One more note: you often refer to the more conservative player; what I think you mean is shorter player. Town & Country looks very, very different to me, for example, than it does to you and Shane Wright, regardless of how conservative or risk taking we might be.

Dan,

Yes, it is possible to roll a ball down the hill and have is stay on the putting surface. The trick is to have a shot approaching the top of the hill at a gentle pace, favoring the left side a bit. A couple of weeks prior I had hit my 2nd to the right and had a silver maple blocking a high wedge shot to the green from about 80 yards out...I pitched a ball to the top of the hill and after about 30 seconds of rolling it found the bottom of the cup in the middle-right side of the green for an eagle.

Prior to widening that approach, the majority of rolling shots would just find the rough in front of the green, making for a very awkward chip/pitch. If it were up to me, I would further widen the fairway approach by another 15-20 yards out to the east side of the fairway/green.

In terms of the conservative/shorter player, I see what you are saying but that's not necessarily the case. Hitting a long iron off the tee on either 13 or 15, for example, are very much possibilities for me if I'm trying to play those holes more conservatively. I agree that I might have different options than a shorter hitter, but if I'm trying to win a match by playing conservatively, my shot selection on say 15-17 is going to be a lot more different than if I was down and trying to come back to win.

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks for the photo tour, Pat.  I was fortunate enough to see T&C a few years back, and it's nice seeing that some tree removal has gone one.  The biggest negative to the course is having trees or tall grass hide some really amazing contours.  Even where interior trees don't dramatically impede play, the land would look so much better without many of them.

T&C is a superb example of letting the land determine the routing.  It would be fascinating to see how other architects would have handled the hilly, compact site.  I think that the course that is there is quite good and deserving of more attention.  It would be very much at home in England (and that's a compliment).

[Dan Kelly]

Yes, it is possible to roll a ball down the hill and have is stay on the putting surface. The trick is to have a shot approaching the top of the hill at a gentle pace, favoring the left side a bit. A couple of weeks prior I had hit my 2nd to the right and had a silver maple blocking a high wedge shot to the green from about 80 yards out...I pitched a ball to the top of the hill and after about 30 seconds of rolling it found the bottom of the cup in the middle-right side of the green for an eagle.

Prior to widening that approach, the majority of rolling shots would just find the rough in front of the green, making for a very awkward chip/pitch. If it were up to me, I would further widen the fairway approach by another 15-20 yards out to the east side of the fairway/green.

Pat --

If your ball hadn't hit the stick, would it have rolled over the green into the rough? (Emoticons omitted.)

I agree with you that I would continue to widen the approach hill that is mowed shorter than rough height. I wonder, though, if that hillside doesn't demand its very own mower height, somewhere between the fairway cut and the rough cut, to allow balls to bounce/trickle down the hill AND stay on the green.

I, too, think Jason has summarized the "flavor" of Town & Country very deftly. I've heard quite a few guys say they don't care for that flavor -- "crazy bounces" have been cited more than once -- but it certainly is a memorable flavor, worth savoring when you get the chance to experience it, even if a person might not care for it as the staple of his diet.
 
As the French say: Chacun a son gout!

Thanks for the photo tour.

Dan

[Neil Davis]

Pat, thanks for the outstanding photo tour.  As a fellow member at T&CC, it is exciting and interesting to hear others' thoughts on the course that we call home.  T&CC is a very sporty, members club--charming with its clever routing, unusual par lay out, and ingenious relationship with a fascinating piece of land in a great old, urban neighborhood and only blocks from the Mississippi River.  I never tire of playing the course.  T&CC is quirk exemplified as there are several aspects that don't fit normal constructs, or would not be done over again.  But without those it would be a lot like too many other courses.  The recent course projects have improved or restored playability, strategy, and course conditioning.  There is still work to be done. 

Also, we are lucky to have one of the best turfgrass management crews around, to which most of the credit for praise received should go due to their hard work, dedication, and stewardship.

The only bad part of T&CC and golf in Minnesota is that winter is staring us in the face, waiting for us to blink.         

[Rick Shefchik]

Thanks for the photo tour, Pat.  I was fortunate enough to see T&C a few years back, and it's nice seeing that some tree removal has gone one.  The biggest negative to the course is having trees or tall grass hide some really amazing contours.  Even where interior trees don't dramatically impede play, the land would look so much better without many of them.

T&C is a superb example of letting the land determine the routing.  It would be fascinating to see how other architects would have handled the hilly, compact site.  I think that the course that is there is quite good and deserving of more attention.  It would be very much at home in England (and that's a compliment).

John, there have been a number of routings over the same pasture land since the first six-hole course opened there in 1893. Here's a map from the St. Paul Globe of the routing of the 9-hole course in 1896 (unfortunately, the top of the photo is south, not north, and the right side is west, not east.) There's a fantastic map in the T&C clubhouse that features the various routings of the course, overlayed to show how the course changed over time. I don't believe there's a smaller, reproduceable version of that overlay map available, but I'd sure like to see an artist or golf course historian make a small version of it so we could compare it to this first routing map and see the evolution of the course. If somebody is handy with Photoshop and could at least overlay the current routing onto this map, that would be very interesting to look at.

[Buck Wolter]

I really enjoyed the round at T&C hosted by Pat and his group. It was interesting that the member in our group rarely played the course from the 'tips' which was about 6400 yards (he wasn't a short hitter)and usually played from the next tee up at 6,100 -- that was the longest 6,400 yard course I can remember playing. He commented that the majority of the rounds are played from 6,100. I think a T&C handicap would travel pretty well. Also Pat is very modest but he has won the Club Championship 2 of his 3 years there including this summer so he obviously knows how to get around the place --not so much how to make friends at your new club.

I'll leave all the historical stuff to Rick and Dan but the involvement of Robert Foulis is very interesting to me given similarities I see to Glen Echo in St Louis -- (I went to the archives and found this which had to be one of my original threads which gives a good history of the Brothers courtesy of Jim Healey  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,605.0.html )

Town and Country is a great 'Urban Oasis' with a very nice routing, lot's of half par holes and a great maintenance meld --I love where the fairway is cut right up to the bunkers on 12 and several other places. Obviously a lot of passion for the course with Pat and Neil and while I can't compare it to 'before'  the changes that have been described are outstanding.

Buck

[PCCraig]

Thanks for the photo tour, Pat.  I was fortunate enough to see T&C a few years back, and it's nice seeing that some tree removal has gone one.  The biggest negative to the course is having trees or tall grass hide some really amazing contours.  Even where interior trees don't dramatically impede play, the land would look so much better without many of them.

T&C is a superb example of letting the land determine the routing.  It would be fascinating to see how other architects would have handled the hilly, compact site.  I think that the course that is there is quite good and deserving of more attention.  It would be very much at home in England (and that's a compliment).

John, there have been a number of routings over the same pasture land since the first six-hole course opened there in 1893. Here's a map from the St. Paul Globe of the routing of the 9-hole course in 1896 (unfortunately, the top of the photo is south, not north, and the right side is west, not east.) There's a fantastic map in the T&C clubhouse that features the various routings of the course, overlayed to show how the course changed over time. I don't believe there's a smaller, reproduceable version of that overlay map available, but I'd sure like to see an artist or golf course historian make a small version of it so we could compare it to this first routing map and see the evolution of the course. If somebody is handy with Photoshop and could at least overlay the current routing onto this map, that would be very interesting to look at.

Rick,

At some point in the coming days I'll try to drop by and study the maps in the clubhouse and see if I can come up with a hybrid map.

Just looking at the map it seems like the scale is way off?

[Dan Kelly]

Pat --

Played your course again this afternoon, with Joe S.

Met your superintendent (Bill Larson) as we played the 6th hole. He literally ran over Joe's ball, purely by accident, and it squirted out of the rough into the fairway!

Anyway, Joe introduced me, and he said: "Dan Kelly? The one from the golf site?"

Almost like Ed Baker and the Pizza Man!

Since he already knew me, more or less, I complimented him on the work he's done ... and immediately launched into a campaign for additional tree removal! That's a hard sell with Joe; Bill smiled and nodded as I pointed to some meaningless conifers and said they were pointless trees and interfered with the fine vistas at T&C. He said something like: "See, Joe? What I've been telling you!"

Anyway, I'm particularly pleased to report that I literally dropped a ball at the top of the hill on 15 and watched as it rolled and rolled and rolled ... and STAYED ON THE GREEN, SHORT OF THE BACK-RIGHT HOLE!

Then I found my actual ball. I was 30 yards short right. Two options: little flop shot, hoping to hit it perfectly and have it hold the green -- or: Pitch it out to the middle of the fairway, 90 degrees away from my ultimate target, and let it trickle down to the right. Naturally, I chose the second route -- and should have pitched it 120 degrees away from my target, because the 90-degree shot came up about 20 feet short of the hole. I needed to go a few yards farther up the hill.

Man, those greens are demanding... they make T&C the toughest short course I've ever played.

Dan

[PCCraig]

Pat --

Played your course again this afternoon, with Joe S.

Met your superintendent (Bill Larson) as we played the 6th hole. He literally ran over Joe's ball, purely by accident, and it squirted out of the rough into the fairway!

Anyway, Joe introduced me, and he said: "Dan Kelly? The one from the golf site?"

Almost like Ed Baker and the Pizza Man!

Since he already knew me, more or less, I complimented him on the work he's done ... and immediately launched into a campaign for additional tree removal! That's a hard sell with Joe; Bill smiled and nodded as I pointed to some meaningless conifers and said they were pointless trees and interfered with the fine vistas at T&C. He said something like: "See, Joe? What I've been telling you!"

Anyway, I'm particularly pleased to report that I literally dropped a ball at the top of the hill on 15 and watched as it rolled and rolled and rolled ... and STAYED ON THE GREEN, SHORT OF THE BACK-RIGHT HOLE!

Then I found my actual ball. I was 30 yards short right. Two options: little flop shot, hoping to hit it perfectly and have it hold the green -- or: Pitch it out to the middle of the fairway, 90 degrees away from my ultimate target, and let it trickle down to the right. Naturally, I chose the second route -- and should have pitched it 120 degrees away from my target, because the 90-degree shot came up about 20 feet short of the hole. I needed to go a few yards farther up the hill.

Man, those greens are demanding... they make T&C the toughest short course I've ever played.

Dan

Dan,

I'm glad you got to enjoy another round out at T&C this fall. I was able to get out a couple of days after you and the course has firmed up significantly since the last time you played a couple of weeks ago.

I have had that 30 yard pitch from just short of #15 many times...at first glance it might look easy but it requires a pretty delicate shot!

I'm glad that you were able to meet Bill Larson. Bill & his team are incredible and deserve so much credit for the work that they did over the past two seasons. Everything done to the course was completed 100% in-house with the existing crew, who worked long hours to not only complete the core daily maintenance of the course, but also to renovate all of the bunkers, build new tee complexes, remove trees, change mowing lines, and establish new no-mow/fescue areas. Truly an awesome job.

Thanks for the additional help in selling future tree work at the club! T&C has come a long way, but there is still some work to be done.

[PCCraig]

I was able to take a few pictures of the different historical routings displayed in the clubhouse last evening, as was discussed earlier in this thread. I thought I would compile them all in one post. I apologize in advance for the poor photo quality. In each picture you will see a previous routing in light grey overlaid on that year’s routing.

The first known routing is from the St. Paul Globe in 1896. I flipped the map so that north is up:

1896

E.J. Frost, a amateur golfer from Chicago, was brought to T&C to design an updated nine hole course in 1895.

1898

By 1898, the routing of the nine hole course appears to be significantly different. Starting with the second hole which is routed directly to the east, up a steep slope to where the 17th green currently sits.  It should be noted that the 8th hole above runs along in the same direction and on the same land used for the 8th hole today.

It should also be noted, that when the Club decided to upgrade their course again in 1897, C.B. MacDonald and H.J. Whigham were invited to visit and offer advice on its design. While early aerial photos suggest a MacDonald/Geometric style to many of the holes, no evidence has been dug up that shows that MacDonald and Whigham actually made the trip. MacDonald later wrote a letter of recommendation to the Club recommending Robert Foulis for its Head Professional position. He would later move from Onwentsia in Chicago to Town & Country in Saint Paul, and eventually to Bellerive CC in Saint Louis.

1907

The first 18-hole routing at Town & Country and the first 18-hole golf course in Minnesota.  Ben Schurmeier is responsible for this routing.

1920

After purchasing land in the northwest corner of the property, the 10th hole is converted to a par-4, the 11th is converted to a par-3, and the 12th hole is lengthened.  In the 1920’s A.W. Tillinghast redesigned the 12th green and adjusted the 13th tee, while it is noted in club archives that Tom Vardon had been at the club to make some minor adjustments, in particular the 8th and 9th holes. It is still unclear due to missing Board notes who is responsible for the rest of the major routing changes in the 1920’s. 

1998

From 1920 to 1998, the golf course’s routing remained largely unchanged. The major differences being added tees and adjustments to the bunkering. 

[Rick Shefchik]

Thanks so much for doing this, Pat. It's great to have these maps online to study, rather than trying to do a memory drive-by on those occasions I've been in the clubhouse.

[Neil Davis]

The Tillinghast Association website lists T&C as a "reconstruction" in 1937.  But, like Pat said, I've always heard he only worked on the 12th green site and 13th tee box. 

Clearly, the most important piece of information to have would be who did the work in the 20's to give us the course we essentially play today.  But we've been unable to track down board or committee minutes going back that far.  They existing as recently as 25-30 years ago as they are referenced in relation to the production of the 100th anniversary book.  Plus, I'd be curious to know just what the club relied on to produce the course overlays in 1998.   

[Neil Davis]

I found this on an old Tillinghast thread here. 

Saint Paul, Minnesota
April 30th 1937

President of the PGA

Dear Sir:

This is the third rainy day in succession.  I am leaving for Rochester this afternoon and tomorrow I will be at the Mayo Clinic again, leaving immediately after for northern Wisconsin.  I am scheduled to make a golf talk at Rochester tonight.

Before leaving Saint Paul I was able to visit two additional courses at the urgent request of PGA members Herb Snow and Jock Hendry, at Hillcrest Golf Club and Town and Country Club respectively.

Hendry's problem concerned the 12th hole, where a new green is planned.  I located this for him, with definite instructions for contouring and bunkering, and also located a new teeing-ground for the 13th, a natural, which will make a fine new hole.

At Hillcrest I inspected the reconstruction work on the new 17th and 18th holes, which I planned for them when I was last here.  I found that my instructions had been followed faithfully and two very good holes have been developed.  Here I was accompanied by Snow, G.W. Anderson (Chairman of the Green Committee and city champion on numerous occasions) and Stan Graves (Greenkeeper)

My next report will be sent to you on Monday evening, after my arrival in northern Wisconsin.

I find that we have another PGA member at Rochester (in addtion to Ernnie Wilmot at the Country Club) Herb Thienell at Soldiers Field and I will call on him.

Very truly yours

A.W. Tillinghast

AWT

[PCCraig]

I thought I would share a few of the old aerials I’ve compiled, in conjunction with the different routings I posted yesterday:
 

The south portion of the course in the 1920’s

 

The north portion of the course in the 1920’s 

 

1930

1945
Five years after the Club was awarded the Walker Cup 

What is now the 9th hole (left) and the old par-3 9th looking towards downtown Minneapolis

A view of the back nine from roughly the same era

1957

1964

Spring 2012

[Neil Davis]

You can see the Tillinghast changes in the 12th green and 13th tee from the 1930 picture to the 1945 picture. 

[Jason Topp]

A member that read this thread commented that the trees behind 3 are needed because of safety issues associated with approaches to 8.  I have never considered that issue.

Looking at a map the back edge of 3 green is 42 yards from the right edge of 8 green.  I could see how very wild short right shot on 8 could reach the back of 3. 

I am not sure the trees would make a huge difference on the issue but I would be interested in hearing from Neil and Pat on the issue.

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