It's about the descriptions, not the numbers....

[Ally Mcintosh]

…But still… It’s only a bit of fun….

Like a Mark Bourgeoisie numerical nightmare, guess TD’s scores for the following 10 courses in the new Confidential Guide… Closest wins a mars bar next time I see them:

1.   Enniscrone
2.   Castle Stuart
3.   Kingsbarns
4.   Rosapenna Sandy Hills
5.   Trump Aberdeen
6.   Doonbeg
7.   Renaissance Club
8.   Painswick
9.   The European
10.   Waterville

Note – This is not your scores. It’s his.

[Lou_Duran]

I am not a psychiatrist and wouldn't want to play one.  For it to be meaningful, one not only has to divine Tom Doak's aesthetic at the point in time, but also the quality or level of the due diligence in assigning a value (played the course, "power walked" it, or observed a few holes from the clubhouse).  Given that Tom is at the top of his game and his body of architectural work is extraordinary, what he thinks about other courses is indeed "a bit of fun".   

[Ally Mcintosh]

I am not a psychiatrist and wouldn't want to play one.  For it to be meaningful, one not only has to divine Tom Doak's aesthetic at the point in time, but also the quality or level of the due diligence in assigning a value (played the course, "power walked" it, or observed a few holes from the clubhouse).  Given that Tom is at the top of his game and his body of architectural work is extraordinary, what he thinks about other courses is indeed "a bit of fun".   

It isn't supposed to be meaningful.

It's about winning the mars bar.

[Mark Pearce]

Prestwick: 9

Possibly right.  The question was Painswick, though.

[Peter Pallotta]

Ally - I never realized you hated Mark B so intensely. What's he ever done to you? Why do you torment him so with this numerical nightmare? Ah, we all know that it profits a man nothing to gain the whole world and lose his soul, but for a Mars bar?

Peter

[Mark Bourgeois]

Yeah but Peter it's a European Mars Bar. Numbers discussion hereby sanctioned — and now: hey Mcintosh how bout a little something, you know, for the effort.

[Sean_A]

For a Mars bar Bourgeois is all over this.  

1.   Enniscrone   6
2.   Castle Stuart   8
3.   Kingsbarns   7
4.   Rosapenna Sandy Hills   4 (another outlier)
5.   Trump Aberdeen   7
6.   Doonbeg   6
7.   Renaissance Club   7
8.   Painswick   4 (this is a real outlier)
9.   The European   5
10.   Waterville   7 (pure guess)

Ciao

[Greg Taylor]

Good fun!

1.   Enniscrone EIGHT
2.   Castle Stuart EIGHT
3.   Kingsbarns SIX
4.   Rosapenna Sandy Hills FIVE
5.   Trump Aberdeen SIX
6.   Doonbeg FIVE
7.   Renaissance Club SEVEN
8.   Painswick SEVEN
9.   The European FOUR
10.   Waterville SIX

[Ally Mcintosh]

Yeah but Peter it's a European Mars Bar. Numbers discussion hereby sanctioned — and now: hey Mcintosh how bout a little something, you know, for the effort.

I'll save you a mars bar too... Just don't pretend you earned it.

And so... to show my superior and thorough understanding of Tom Doak's thought processes, I hereby submit my own considered judgement:

1.   Enniscrone - 6
2.   Castle Stuart - 8
3.   Kingsbarns - 7
4.   Rosapenna Sandy Hills - 5
5.   Trump Aberdeen - 7
6.   Doonbeg - 6
7.   Renaissance Club - 7
8.   Painswick - 5
9.   The European - 6
10.   Waterville - 7

Will I just eat the chocolate now?

 

[Peter Pallotta]

"7s" are great aren't they, the best of all possible numeric figures.

Simply better than "6s" and "5s" and more happily and proudly self-regarding than the "0s though 4s", and yet without the preciousness, self-consiousness, and under-current of gnashing insecurities of "8s" and "9s", and of course wholly free of the pressures inherent in the otherworldy reputations of "10s".

In short, "7s" are the best of all numbers..........

or perhaps the worst!!


Please don't discuss. There is much important guessing going on  



 

[Ally Mcintosh]

"7s" are great aren't they, the best if all possible numeric figures.

Simply better than "6s" and "5s" and more happily self-regarding than the "0s though 4s", and yet without the preciousness, self-consiousness, and under-current of gnashing insecurities of "8s" and "9s", and of course wholly free of the pressures inherent in the otherworldy reputations of "10s".

In short, "7s" are the best of all numbers..........

or perhaps the worst!!


Please don't discuss. There is much important guessing going on  



 

I believe history will show this as the most important guessing thread we've had since the foundation of the discussion forum.... And Lord, have there been a few!

[Thomas Dai]

Yeah but Peter it's a European Mars Bar. Numbers discussion hereby sanctioned — and now: hey Mcintosh how bout a little something, you know, for the effort.

It may be a European Mars Bar but is it a deep fried one?
atb

[Tony_Muldoon]

Yeah but Peter it's a European Mars Bar. Numbers discussion hereby sanctioned — and now: hey Mcintosh how bout a little something, you know, for the effort.

I'll save you a mars bar too... Just don't pretend you earned it.

And so... to show my superior and thorough understanding of Tom Doak's thought processes, I hereby submit my own considered judgement:

1.   Enniscrone - 6
2.   Castle Stuart - 8
3.   Kingsbarns - 7
4.   Rosapenna Sandy Hills - 5
5.   Trump Aberdeen - 7
6.   Doonbeg - 6
7.   Renaissance Club - 7
8.   Painswick - 5
9.   The European - 6
10.   Waterville - 7

Will I just eat the chocolate now?

 

I have only seen 5 in total so I'll resist guessing.

However this reinforces a point I've made before.

5 modern Irish Courses. Av Score  5.8
4 modern Scottish Courses.  Av Score 7.25.

Forget the missed opportunities on the Rugby field, just one 8 would have been nice.  Sometimes numbers can sum things up nicely.

Of course if we add The Castle Course to this...

[Thomas Dai]

Yeah but Peter it's a European Mars Bar. Numbers discussion hereby sanctioned — and now: hey Mcintosh how bout a little something, you know, for the effort.

It may be a European Mars Bar but is it a deep fried one?
atb

I have yet to come across these fabled deep fried mars bars - and I exhausted the dregs of the Edinburgh takeaway scene one summer in 2000 - is it a Glasgow phenomenon?

I have seen them on the menu in other cities north of the border.

I have also seen them thrown from the crowd at a futba match too. Not as accurate to throw apparently as the more traditional futba fans snack, the fabled meat pie, without much meat but with hole in the top to be filled with ketchup. It must be the shape that makes the 'meat' pie more balanced through the air. Makes a wonderful kinda thump-splat when an opposing player is hit on the head by one! Alas, memories of the past now consigned to history by in stadium CCTV.


atb

[Mark Pearce]

Yeah but Peter it's a European Mars Bar. Numbers discussion hereby sanctioned — and now: hey Mcintosh how bout a little something, you know, for the effort.

It may be a European Mars Bar but is it a deep fried one?
atb

I have yet to come across these fabled deep fried mars bars - and I exhausted the dregs of the Edinburgh takeaway scene one summer in 2000 - is it a Glasgow phenomenon?

Yes, though the one I suffered was on a kids rugby tour in Jeburgh.

[Adam Clayman]

Unless the number is 0

[Bart Bradley]

1.   Enniscrone  - 6
2.   Castle Stuart -7
3.   Kingsbarns - 7
4.   Rosapenna Sandy Hills - 4
5.   Trump Aberdeen -7
6.   Doonbeg - 5
7.   Renaissance Club - 7
8.   Painswick - 5
9.   The European - 6
10.   Waterville - 6

I've seen them all except Painswick, so that was a pure guess.

[Jud_T]

1.   Enniscrone   6
2.   Castle Stuart   7
3.   Kingsbarns   8
4.   Rosapenna Sandy Hills   5
5.   Trump Aberdeen  7
6.   Doonbeg   5
7.   Renaissance Club   7
8.   Painswick  4
9.   The European  6
10.   Waterville  7

[Steve Wilson]

1.   Enniscrone     86
2.   Castle Stuart  84
3.   Kingsbarns     85
4.   Rosapenna Sandy Hills  79
5.   Trump Aberdeen  104
6.   Doonbeg 83
7.   Renaissance Club 85
8.   Painswick 76
9.   The European 91
10.   Waterville 88

[Tom_Doak]

1.   Enniscrone     86
2.   Castle Stuart  84
3.   Kingsbarns     85
4.   Rosapenna Sandy Hills  79
5.   Trump Aberdeen  104
6.   Doonbeg 83
7.   Renaissance Club 85
8.   Painswick 76
9.   The European 91
10.   Waterville 88

  I've done better than those scores at Kingsbarns [in the Dunhill Links!] and The Renaissance Club, anyway.

If I had to rate 'em that way, though, The European Club would get a 0 because I have never been there.

[Bart Bradley]

So you are not scoring one of the staples of the Golf Magazine World Top 100?  Why haven't you been there?

[Tom_Doak]

So you are not scoring one of the staples of the Golf Magazine World Top 100?  Why haven't you been there?

Two of my co-authors have been there, so it's in the book.

I haven't been to that part of Ireland at all since the course was built.

[Ally Mcintosh]

1.   Enniscrone   6
2.   Castle Stuart   7
3.   Kingsbarns   8
4.   Rosapenna Sandy Hills   5
5.   Trump Aberdeen  7
6.   Doonbeg   5
7.   Renaissance Club   7
8.   Painswick  4
9.   The European  6
10.   Waterville  7

So Jud, why don't you give us the total Doak aggregate for these 10 courses (without spoiling the individual results of course) and then I can award the mars bar to the winner?

EDIT - Just noticed Tom hasn't been to The European. So you are hereby sanctioned to take the average score from Darius, Masa and Ran for that course only.

[David Davis]

It's all about averages. Assume the average is 5.5. I'd say 55.

[Ally Mcintosh]

So, who got the most right? Without giving individual scores away to those who don't like spoilers (and bearing in mind Tom hasn't seen The European), here are the results:

Brian S: 4/9
Sean A: 5/9
Greg T: 3/9
Ally: 7/9
Bart: 7/9
Jud T: 5/9

Looks like I'm splitting the mars bar with Bart....