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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« on: September 22, 2014, 10:20:33 PM »
How I've seen so many courses, redux:

Sunday:

Played Longmeadow CC, a.m.
Toured Olde Kinderhook GC, p.m.
Toured McGregor Links, p.m.

Monday:

Toured The Sagamore GC, a.m.
Played Glens Falls CC, noon
Power-walked Yahnundasis GC, evening

tomorrow:

Teugega CC, a.m.
Onondaga GC, p.m.

This is how one gets to see so many golf courses.  There's not enough time to play them all, but I've had a good look at six courses in two days [Yahnundasis was a bit rushed].  Biggest surprise:  McGregor Links had several terrific holes.  Glens Falls was the best course of the bunch, Longmeadow second, but I sort of expected that, even if I had not idea what they were going to look like.  Both were hillier than I had anticipated.
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paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2014, 10:34:52 PM »
Leatherstocking on the list? It's the course that launched my design journey.
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Philip Caccamise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2014, 10:40:15 PM »
What I remember about McGregor Links: Short Par 5's. LONG Par 3's.
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Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2014, 10:43:22 PM »
Be curious to see how you rank Long Meadow with the other fine Mass parklands (Salem, Winchester...).  Been ages but the Par 5 3rd and short par 4 5th stick in the memory the most for me.
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can't get to heaven with a three chord song

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2014, 10:59:17 PM »
Couldn't have asked for a nicer day yesterday.  You hit the right time of year for up here.  Emmet wrote that McGregor was a championship caliber course.  The condos are there but would like to know which holes you thought stood out.  3rd par 3, for instance, and the 6th.
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The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Peter Pallotta

Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2014, 11:11:53 PM »
You know what just struck me, Tom -- and honestly, somehow it had never occurred to me before. It struck me that, besides your devotion to the art and craft of golf course architecture, you also just really like playing golf! If you were a retiree, I can now imagine you playing golf every single day.

Hmm. Interesting.

I might almost say this : that I now believe the secret to your success is that you design golf courses not for your clients and not for the public but for yourself, i.e. you design courses that you would want to play....every day!

Oh...I'm so proud of myself.

Please, don't shoot my theory down...not just yet. Let me savour it for a while at least.

Peter
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paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2014, 11:14:26 PM »
I think you're right Peter...his passion is personal.
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Mark Pavy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2014, 12:09:09 AM »
What scores did you shoot?
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John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2014, 07:40:39 AM »
Weather this week in Upstate NY are great - bright blue skys - warm afternoons - no a chance of rain.

Bogey is heading thru the same trip this week - would be cool if you hooked up.

Love to know what you thought of Yahnandasis - any reason no Leatherstocking? I know - wait for the book :)
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Integrity in the moment of choice

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2014, 08:05:42 AM »
Do you do the touring in a cart or walking?  Sounds like a great trip--those upstate NY courses look great
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PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2014, 10:19:14 AM »
Tom_Doak,

Are you planning on returning to Minnesota in your travels for the new edition of The Confidential Guide?
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H.P.S.

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2014, 11:12:42 AM »
Longmeadow might be the most under appreciated golf course in New England. Put it inside of 495 and it would get way more acclaim.

What did you think about Olde Kinderhook? I used to live in Williamstown, and I drove past Olde Kinderhook a few times and always thought it looked pretty interesting and far more natural than the other Rees Jones courses I've played. But I only saw a few holes.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 11:18:18 AM by Dan_Callahan »
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abmack

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2014, 12:59:09 PM »
Tom,

I've spent a bit of time in the NY Capital Region, there are some good, low-key, courses there. CC of Troy and Wolferts Roost stand out as having some charm. I am curious about The Sagamore. What did you think?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 01:01:13 PM by Andrew Mack »
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Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2014, 01:28:45 PM »
Upstate NY, western Mass, etc. have tons of great low-key courses
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JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2014, 04:03:53 PM »
What is interesting about this small sample size is that the two you played are the two you liked the best.
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2014, 07:03:42 PM »
Quote from: JC Jones on September 23, 2014, 04:03:53 PM
What is interesting about this small sample size is that the two you played are the two you liked the best.

He probably chose to play the courses he expected to like the best.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2014, 07:24:37 PM »
Quote from: Mark Pavy on September 23, 2014, 12:09:09 AM
What scores did you shoot?


86, 88, 84, 82.  Apparently I get better as I start to tire.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2014, 07:28:07 PM »
Quote from: Chris DeToro on September 23, 2014, 08:05:42 AM
Do you do the touring in a cart or walking?  Sounds like a great trip--those upstate NY courses look great

It depends on how many golfers are out there and how much time I have.  I prefer to walk, but when I'm doing 54 holes a day, probably one of the loops is going to be in a cart to save my legs.  I'm not 22 anymore!

In response to other questions, I didn't stop at Leatherstocking or CC of Troy because I have seen both on multiple occasions.  I'm trying to catch courses that we have not yet reviewed for the book, although Darius had already been to Teugega, at my recommendation.
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Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2014, 08:11:41 PM »
Has anyone played Schuyler Meadows in Loundonville? This is an Emmet course with a Hanse restoration that is supposed to be very good.
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Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2014, 10:38:13 PM »
Famous GCAs all have a macro look.   


When you don't have great land, some of the micro work can close the gap.

The macro vs micro bias is very real
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David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2014, 10:48:47 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on September 22, 2014, 10:20:33 PM
This is how one gets to see so many golf courses.
Oh, so having a job and family life that involves/allows travel and having industry connections have nothing to do with it?   :P
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Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2014, 10:56:33 PM »
Quote from: Don Mahaffey on September 23, 2014, 10:38:13 PM
Famous GCAs all have a macro look.   


When you don't have great land, some of the micro work can close the gap.

The macro vs micro bias is very real

Don Corleone - why did you hide this gem here, where few would be looking for it or find it?

I mostly leave it to others to rank and rate; if there aren't posts like this about what gca actually IS, and WHY it is what it is, I'm not sure what this place is actually for. 
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John Connolly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2014, 12:39:18 AM »
Quote from: Don Mahaffey on September 23, 2014, 10:38:13 PM
Famous GCAs all have a macro look.   


When you don't have great land, some of the micro work can close the gap.

The macro vs micro bias is very real

Interesting quip. I don't want to thread hijack but your comment fascinates me. I think I get the macro (land, topo, wind, surrounds) but what to you mean by micro? Turf? Maintenance? And lastly, why do you use the word bias? In the context of what a GCA favors when he creates? Or how a player may evaluate a course, ie bones of the course (macro) vs. conditioning (micro)?
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"And yet - and yet, this New Road will some day be the Old Road, too."

                                                      Neil Munroe (1863-1930)

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2014, 08:00:05 AM »
Quote from: David_Elvins on September 23, 2014, 10:48:47 PM
Quote from: Tom_Doak on September 22, 2014, 10:20:33 PM
This is how one gets to see so many golf courses.
Oh, so having a job and family life that involves/allows travel and having industry connections have nothing to do with it?   :P

Life is full of choices
and everybody gets the same 24 hours a day.
pretty sure Tom didn't have those "advantages" at 22 and everything has a price
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Back to My Old Schedule
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2014, 07:56:06 PM »
Tom,

Im glad you got a look at McGregor, one of the best parcels of terrain Devereux Emmet ever worked with.  Lots of stirring movement in the ground. I especially enjoy the stretches  from 3-8  and  16-17 (Alps).  Number ten is also a lovely par four that Emmet was proud of.  I hope you see his work at Schuyler Meadows and at Hartford's Keney  Park.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 03:16:44 PM by mark chalfant »
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