THE Redan

[Rich Goodale]

Would Redan be better today as a 260ish par 4? 

Ciao

No

Niao

or Miaow.......

[Rich Goodale]

F. and Rhic,

I hate to disagree with two fine Fifeans (?), but upon further review I really think the woodcut view is angled across the 10th green then looking across 11th in the background and then across  the bay to the hills beyond.  The rocky crag - Lundar Law(?) - at the right side of the woodcut is to the side of the 10th green.  There is no such crag near the 11th green.



From Elie's web site here is a picture from the top of the Law looking across 10 in the foreground and 11 and then the bay.  Imagine being at the bottom of the Law and further back and out on the next promontory and I think you get the right angle with the Law at the right edge of the picture.




This one looking across the 11th green has no Law on the right, nor is the sea lapping up to the green as in the woodcut.

You could be right, Bryan, but my memories are that the 11th tee (much less the 11th green) cannot be seen from the 10th fairway due to the escarpment which separates the two holes.  The only way to get that view is from near the 10th green, looking back up toward the 11th, 12th and 13th.  Also, the fact that the name of the hole is not something that clubs rarely change. Or maybe the artist of your woodcut was Ian Scott-Taylor........

Rich

[Bryan Izatt]

Back in July, on a visit to North Berwick, I came across the following painting in the front hall of the clubhouse.


It is of a golfing scene entitled "Perfection Bunker" and seems to be from post 1909.  The scene shows many of the North Berwick landmarks including Berwick Law, Bass Rock, the Marine Hotel, the town and the Redan bunker.  These landmarks suggests the point of view of the artist was from what is now the 14th (Perfection) fairway.  What's puzzling is that the players seem to be looking to play almost at right angles to the bunker and away from the Redan hole following.


One of the players in my group had a long time member as a caddie and it was his view that the tee for the Redan was once up on the dune to the left of the current slope down to the 14th green.  That would be consistent with the hole playing as a two shot 266 yard hole.  Perhaps the original perfection green was up there too.  That would be consistent with the the angle the players are looking in the picture.


Consistent with other pictures from the time, the "Perfection Bunker" also appears to have used sleepers.


You can click through to a larger version of the picture.

[BCrosby]

Bryan -

It's hard to know how much credence to give to the picture. I'd guess that the artist took some liberties to get the players (all famous in the day) facing the viewer while showing notable NB landmarks around and behind them. But it's hard to know. Another bit of evidence to weigh.

BTW, this old thread is Golf Club Atlas at its best. I urge people go back and read it from page 1.

Bob

[MCirba]

Thanks for sharing Bryan.  Terrific painting and interesting observation.

[Marty Bonnar]

I'm fairly sure that's AWT sketching the Redan in the background.

[Mark Pearce]

It looked more like the 10th green, Lundar Law, to me, but I've only been there twice.  The 11th would be beyond the players and out of sight from this vantage point, n'est pas?

Bryan

The perspective is from short of the 10th green, looking at the 11th green with the bay in the background.

Rich

I don't think so.  It looks like the 10th green to me, viewed from the rocks back left of that green.  Don't know why I didn't see this last year.