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David_Tepper

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"How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« on: August 27, 2014, 02:44:52 PM »
From CNBC:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/investors-betting-golfs-decline-124651701.html

When you see so many "bad news" headlines, maybe the worst is just about over.

Ken Moum

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Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 03:52:14 PM »
Nice find, Tepper....

Hope you are right.

FWIW, I have recently started thinking that the a-holes who bought my golf course have a business model that could "save" golf fro itself.

As I have previously said, my wife and I have unlimited access to 17 golf courses and almost as many fitness facilities (24/7) for a total of $49.99 a month. You could even get a plan that includes 11 courses and unlimited fitness for $29.99.

For that they are delivering course conditions that are closer to 1914 than 2014. And their courses have decent amounts of play, albeit no one plays by the Rules of Golf, but that's another matter altogether.

Maybe this is the antidote to CCFADs.

FWIW, they've somehow exported their business plan from Kansas to Sioux Falls SD where there are a dozen courses on offer. The prices aren't quite as low, and the main investor is apparently spending lots of money on the courses.  I just heard that at one course play was up 100% and revenue was up 58%

In Kansas we have http://www.greatlifegolf.com/

In SD they are http://www.joingreatlife.com/
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

George Pazin

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Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 03:55:33 PM »
From CNBC:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/investors-betting-golfs-decline-124651701.html

When you see so many "bad news" headlines, maybe the worst is just about over.

Imho, we're not even close to the bottom.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 04:30:36 PM »
From CNBC:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/investors-betting-golfs-decline-124651701.html

When you see so many "bad news" headlines, maybe the worst is just about over.

Imho, we're not even close to the bottom.

Pessimist!

Golf is on the positive side of the curve in Texas.  My home club went from 140 members a year ago to over 340 currently.  Home and apartment construction is going crazy.  While some believe a new bubble is being created, I am optimistic in the short and near term regionally.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 05:05:11 PM »
From CNBC:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/investors-betting-golfs-decline-124651701.html

When you see so many "bad news" headlines, maybe the worst is just about over.

Imho, we're not even close to the bottom.

When you hear and read that often, you usually ARE near a bottom
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 06:36:57 PM »
Four years ago The Moors, a decent public course that hosted the Emerald Coast Classic on the Champions Tour from 1995-2008, closed. 

Today the owner of Marcus Point, an Earl Stone design and popular public option, announced they will close the end of the year.  The owners of the 250 homes located along the fairways are probably not too thrilled. 

Ryan Hillenbrand

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 09:41:22 PM »
Interesting that England has experienced a growth in golfers. Could that be a Rory effect in UK like we yanks had 15 years ago with Tiger?

BCowan

Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 09:49:59 PM »
Four years ago The Moors, a decent public course that hosted the Emerald Coast Classic on the Champions Tour from 1995-2008, closed.  

Today the owner of Marcus Point, an Earl Stone design and popular public option, announced they will close the end of the year.  The owners of the 250 homes located along the fairways are probably not too thrilled.  

Bill,

   that is sad, i thought Marcus Point was a solid course.  I played it 16 years ago visiting my aunt and uncle.  Is Lost Key aka Lost Ball still open? 

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 11:28:44 PM »
Four years ago The Moors, a decent public course that hosted the Emerald Coast Classic on the Champions Tour from 1995-2008, closed.  

Today the owner of Marcus Point, an Earl Stone design and popular public option, announced they will close the end of the year.  The owners of the 250 homes located along the fairways are probably not too thrilled.  

Bill,

   that is sad, i thought Marcus Point was a solid course.  I played it 16 years ago visiting my aunt and uncle.  Is Lost Key aka Lost Ball still open? 

Yes.  Several years ago the corridors were widened at Lost Key, aka Lost Sleeve.   Before it was called Lost Dozen by the locals.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2014, 03:14:06 AM »
Interesting that England has experienced a growth in golfers. Could that be a Rory effect in UK like we yanks had 15 years ago with Tiger?

I noticed that but it's not what I have read else where.

This report focuses on equipment sales being down here as well and the comments after reflect what I'd heard, rounds down 20%.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/11052733/Golf-equipment-sales-hit-as-interest-in-the-sport-wanes.html
Let's make GCA grate again!

Jon Wiggett

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Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2014, 03:50:47 AM »
Tony,

on golf equipment sales being down it could be because much of it is quite expensive and people don't want to spend so much at the moment.

Jon

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2014, 04:51:59 AM »
Our numbers are pretty static we seem to lose 150-200 members a year and gain 150-200 members.  VFM is always the most important thing to the consumer I think most club's are now aware of this, some seem to have gone the wrong way and created an imbalance ignoring that the cheapest way to play golf is as a member, which is the paramount rule in a successfull golf club. Only half your members love the club the other half see it as a ticket, if they find a cheaper route to play they will do it. Internet transparency will do those clubs no good long term.

I said a few years ago and was rebucked by Tom Doak that it was some of the better courses likely to suffer. There are a couple of GB & I top 100 courses that might go under, where the location is not kind.

I think golf is on a decline but we still have the golden card; Playing golf = Better Health = Live longer.

I would say a lot more people would play golf if it equaled living 5 years longer by playing golf once a week. The 4 hours of walking, thinking, competitiveness are all positives according to doctors.

Golf clubs are often too focused on junior recruitment rather than over 40 recruitment. I am not against juniors and was one once, but the trouble with juniors are the distractions of life between 16-35.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2014, 05:35:58 AM »
Our numbers are pretty static we seem to lose 150-200 members a year and gain 150-200 members.  VFM is always the most important thing to the consumer I think most club's are now aware of this, some seem to have gone the wrong way and created an imbalance ignoring that the cheapest way to play golf is as a member, which is the paramount rule in a successfull golf club. Only half your members love the club the other half see it as a ticket, if they find a cheaper route to play they will do it. Internet transparency will do those clubs no good long term.

I said a few years ago and was rebucked by Tom Doak that it was some of the better courses likely to suffer. There are a couple of GB & I top 100 courses that might go under, where the location is not kind.

I think golf is on a decline but we still have the golden card; Playing golf = Better Health = Live longer.

I would say a lot more people would play golf if it equaled living 5 years longer by playing golf once a week. The 4 hours of walking, thinking, competitiveness are all positives according to doctors.

Golf clubs are often too focused on junior recruitment rather than over 40 recruitment. I am not against juniors and was one once, but the trouble with juniors are the distractions of life between 16-35.

Very valid comments IMO. Chat about growing the game tends to focus on the younger generations but their involvement has a tendency to wane whereas us oldsters are living longer and thus will be playing for longer.

atb

Chris DeToro

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Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2014, 09:49:27 AM »
I think rumors of golf's demise are largely overstated though I do think that we (those that have a love and passion for the game) need to do something to help spur some growth to keep the game lively and keep people investing in the game so that we can continue to build new, great courses

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2014, 10:41:26 AM »
But then there's this…

http://reflectionbaygolf.com
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2014, 11:28:27 AM »
Golf clubs are often too focused on junior recruitment rather than over 40 recruitment. I am not against juniors and was one once, but the trouble with juniors are the distractions of life between 16-35.

Exactly the point I made in the 'Millennials' thread recently. Guys in their mid 30s and older are the growth area in golf. Particularly those approaching the end of their amateur football or rugby careers.

They are accustomed to doing their own thing on a Saturday, and more importantly so are their wives. They have a choice between taking up golf and a lifetime of spending every Saturday at B&Q or Home Depot!

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2014, 12:08:14 PM »
Golf clubs are often too focused on junior recruitment rather than over 40 recruitment. I am not against juniors and was one once, but the trouble with juniors are the distractions of life between 16-35.


They are accustomed to doing their own thing on a Saturday, and more importantly so are their wives. They have a choice between taking up golf and a lifetime of spending every Saturday at B&Q or Home Depot!

This behavior needs to be learned and taught in today's millennial marriages  :)

Garland Bayley

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Re: "How investors are betting on golf's decline"
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2014, 03:22:56 PM »
...
I would say a lot more people would play golf if it equaled living 5 years longer by playing golf once a week. The 4 hours of walking, thinking, competitiveness are all positives according to doctors.
...

I thought the Swedish study said it equaled living 10 years longer. However, I don't remember how much you had to play to gain that benefit.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

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