Of Firestone's three courses, in what order would you

[Patrick_Mucci]

rank the South, North and West courses.

And WHY ?

I happen to favor the West by a good margin.

I prefer the width, the bunkering and the openess, which also subjects it to more wind.
Note: elevation doesn't hurt.

There seems to be far greater variety.

There are some glitches in the routing on the back nine, but, in general, I"d prefer playing it over the others by a good margin.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I had one of my more memorable days at Firestone about ten years ago.  A friend and I flew to Cleveland early one day, rented a car, played 72 holes and flew home that same night.  No one, and I mean no one was on the course.  We played the South twice and the others once.  I think the West may have been changed a a bit since I was last there.

Like you I prefer the West. It is not terribly difficult but it is fun.  I like the movement of the holes and the varying shots required.  I think I would play the South second.  It is not my favorite course by a long stretch, and tests my lack of length, but the history is hard to beat.  I liked the North course, but found it predictable.  I seem to recall you asking this question a few years ago. I probable ranked the West, North, South.  It may even have been North first.  Ask me in a year I may have a different answer.

[Chris DeToro]

Interesting topic.  I've been to Firestone numerous times and have always chosen to play either the North or South--the West never occurred to me.  Of those two, I actually prefer the North.  The South is a very demanding driving course but a lot of the holes seem very similar to me with few exceptions.  I think the North offers much more variety in holes and demands on one's game. 

I guess next time I'll have to venture over to the West...

[Joe Leenheer]

All three are unique. Most locals will claim they like the North best. My guess is they like the finishing holes on the water. It has some uninteresting holes and some good ones.

The west is super fun to play and a great match play venue. Big greens which are very fun to play on when conditions are firm and fast. It can be a bit tiresome when wet.

The South is a great test of golf and requires excellence in every shot. When the pros come to town they let the rough get up which really puts a premium on driving. From the up tees it's very fun.

Order: South, West, & North

[Rob Marshall]

Played Firestone about 14 or 15 years ago. Great two day trip. We spent the night in the rooms off the locker room. Bartender/locker room attendant was on call all night.  I thought the North was great and a lot of fun. I think they referred to it as the Yacht Club. South was long  and great fun. The history adds a little favor. I'm not even sure they had a West course when I was there. Anyway I'd go South and then North.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

As a former Firestone member, Pat and I are on the same page.  80 percent of my rounds were on the West.  A fun course with plenty of width.  West, South, North.

[Michael Marzec]

Pat:

What is your criteria? The beauty of the three courses at Firestone is that they are all quite different.

How would I rank them for beauty?
1. North - For its rolling terrain and great holes by the water
2. West - For the best vistas among the three courses
3. South - Classic beauty

How would I rank them for routing?
1. North - both nines start and finish along the water with a climb up the ridge for the intervening holes, with good pacing of 5s and 3s
2. South - yes, there are a lot of tight, long par 4s, but it is the most walkable of the 3 courses and good variety in the par 3s
3. West - Some of my favorite holes at Firestone are on this course, but it is essentially unwalkable with a 1st tee and 18th green half a mile from the clubhouse - on opposite sides of the property.

How would I rank them for fun?
1. West - Wide fairways, attractive bunkering, funky greens and good mix of hole types and lengths make this the most interesting course. The fact that it is imminently "scoreable," makes it the funnest. After all, we all like to shoot low scores. I have known members who refused to play it because it lowered their handicaps too much.
2. North - The terrain is nicely varied and the water is a beautiful, but penal feature. The par fives are reachable with good drives, but not without risks in the form of water or intimidating bunkers.
3. South - Simply put, this course is often brutal. If you are slightly off your game, you will be exposed. But when you are on, there is no better feeling than scoring well on the South.

Looks like the South isn't doing so well...

How would I rank them for design?
1. South - What can I say? I love classically designed courses. Everything is there in front you. Now just try and post a decent score.
2. West - I love the look of this course. I just wish it had the wind to match the layout.
3. North - Most members love the North the most, but I think it is a layout you can find many places. All the water holes may be an exception, but then again I don't really like all that water.

How would I rank them as a great test of golf?
1. South - A demanding test from any set of tees; rather penal in its tightness, but the real challenge is in the subtle greens. As a mid-handicapper I have but one round in the 70s on the South, while many on the other two courses. I never fail to use all the clubs in my bag when playing from the hybrid tees. That is an important measure for me.
2. North - A challenging course from the blue tees, and while the water is a natural feature, it can be overwhelming with all the forced carries and tight driving areas on 1, 2, 8, 9, 10, 11, 17 and 18. And the water by the green at 3 of the 4 par fives, and you have a lot of water to contend with. Maybe a little too much.
3. West - Simply put, this is where I go to soothe my golf psyche after being beaten up by the South. My lowest rounds have been recorded here. The West would better live up to its design if the wind were consistently up, but as I have posted elsewhere here, it really does not blow hard that often at Firestone. With virtually no trees and little other vegetation, wayward tee shots are rarely penalized as balls can easily be found and greens easily reached while out of position.

So we rotate our play every weekend, but I admit to missing the days on the West more than the others. It is great for the psyche, but a little to harsh on my handicap card....

My personal ranking:

1. South
2. North
3. West

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat:

What is your criteria?

Fun, challenge and enjoyment.

The beauty of the three courses at Firestone is that they are all quite different.

Yes, very different and I think that's an asset of the facility

How would I rank them for beauty?
1. North - For its rolling terrain and great holes by the water
2. West - For the best vistas among the three courses
3. South - Classic beauty

How would I rank them for routing?
1. North - both nines start and finish along the water with a climb up the ridge for the intervening holes, with good pacing of 5s and 3s
2. South - yes, there are a lot of tight, long par 4s, but it is the most walkable of the 3 courses and good variety in the par 3s
3. West - Some of my favorite holes at Firestone are on this course, but it is essentially unwalkable with a 1st tee and 18th green half a mile from the clubhouse - on opposite sides of the property.

With three courses they can't all begin and end at the back of the clubhouse.
There's a bit of a disconnect on the back nine of the west in terms of routing.

No one seems to debit Bandon for the distance factor.

How would I rank them for fun?
1. West - Wide fairways, attractive bunkering, funky greens and good mix of hole types and lengths make this the most interesting course. The fact that it is imminently "scoreable," makes it the funnest. After all, we all like to shoot low scores. I have known members who refused to play it because it lowered their handicaps too much.
2. North - The terrain is nicely varied and the water is a beautiful, but penal feature. The par fives are reachable with good drives, but not without risks in the form of water or intimidating bunkers.
3. South - Simply put, this course is often brutal. If you are slightly off your game, you will be exposed. But when you are on, there is no better feeling than scoring well on the South.

Agree with your order.

Looks like the South isn't doing so well...

How would I rank them for design?
1. South - What can I say? I love classically designed courses. Everything is there in front you. Now just try and post a decent score.
2. West - I love the look of this course. I just wish it had the wind to match the layout.
3. North - Most members love the North the most, but I think it is a layout you can find many places. All the water holes may be an exception, but then again I don't really like all that water.

The West seems to have far more wind than either the North or South

How would I rank them as a great test of golf?
1. South - A demanding test from any set of tees; rather penal in its tightness, but the real challenge is in the subtle greens. As a mid-handicapper I have but one round in the 70s on the South, while many on the other two courses. I never fail to use all the clubs in my bag when playing from the hybrid tees. That is an important measure for me.
2. North - A challenging course from the blue tees, and while the water is a natural feature, it can be overwhelming with all the forced carries and tight driving areas on 1, 2, 8, 9, 10, 11, 17 and 18. And the water by the green at 3 of the 4 par fives, and you have a lot of water to contend with. Maybe a little too much.
3. West - Simply put, this is where I go to soothe my golf psyche after being beaten up by the South. My lowest rounds have been recorded here. The West would better live up to its design if the wind were consistently up, but as I have posted elsewhere here, it really does not blow hard that often at Firestone. With virtually no trees and little other vegetation, wayward tee shots are rarely penalized as balls can easily be found and greens easily reached while out of position.

I find that more people equate score with a thorough test, when in fact length and perhaps length alone determines score.
If the West was as long as the South, would your opinion change ?

So we rotate our play every weekend, but I admit to missing the days on the West more than the others.
It is great for the psyche, but a little to harsh on my handicap card....

My personal ranking:

1. South
2. North
3. West

With 100 rounds, how would you distribute them.

Me ?

West....... at least 50.
North 30
South 20

[Chris DeToro]

How would you rank Firestone compared to other facilities that offer at least 36 holes? 

[Michael Marzec]

I find that more people equate score with a thorough test, when in fact length and perhaps length alone determines score.
If the West was as long as the South, would your opinion change ?

....

With 100 rounds, how would you distribute them.

Me ?

West....... at least 50.
North 30
South 20

[/quote]

Pat:

I do not equate score with a THOROUGH test, simply a tough test. I consider the South a thorough test because, when played form the proper tees, it demands a wide variety of shots and clubs during a round. This includes many opportunities to hit other than driver off the tee.

I am not sure that length and score are unrelated. Most golfers will score higher on a longer course, but surely that cannot be the only determining factor. The South is a highly penal course due to its tightness and strategic bunkers. I can back up to the tips and my score will not be affected much by the distance (admittedly, I am a longer hitter), but rather by my basic ability to execute the shot at hand - or to remember an incredibly subtle break on the greens. I don't believe distance impacts my ability to place the ball in the proper spot around the course.

As for whether more length would change my opinion of the West, I think not. Unless they make it all up in the par 3s! Sure, it would make the course harder, but I have my best Firestone score - by a couple of shots - from the back tees on the West. If you added 30 yards a hole it would certainly be tougher, but it still would not reach the difficulty of the South. Regardless of where you hit it, you have a look at the green. It may require a heroic carry over a gaping bunker, but the shot is there before you. I keep coming back to the wind. Perhaps you enjoyed it on a windy day. But in all my rounds, I really do not remember a day when the wind was such that it substantially affected my play. As discussed on another thread here about NE Ohio courses, we get plenty of wind and rain up by the lake, but the sun can be shining and the wind calm down in Akron. Perhaps I need to make a last-minute switch the next windy day and give it a go!

As to how I would split 100 rounds?

South: 50
North: 35
West: 15

Here is how I actually split my last 20:

South: 10
North: 6
West: 1
Others: 3

Nonetheless, you have spurred me to get out there again. I have not played it all year (due to my play being way down this year). Perhaps I will even post a photo tour...