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Joey Chase

  • Karma: +0/-0
True Links in Europe
« on: August 10, 2014, 04:30:53 PM »
I was just flipping though the great book "True Links" and saw several omissions, in my opinion.  Although I would clearly defer to Mr. Peper and many on this site to say what is and isn't a true links, I feel there are a few missing here and would like to know others opinion as well.  

Firstly, and most importantly, to me, is the omission of El Saler in Spain.  Although it is played through a forest for half of the round (as do Formby and Noordwijkse), it is played entirely on sandy linksland.  To me, it is as good as many of the classics played over generally interesting terrain.  It has played very firmthe few times I have visited and can be best played on the ground.  

I think the case could be made for Troia in Portugal as well.  Although it is a relatively modern design, it is played along the ocean.  In fact for several holes, the ocean is in view.  The biggest problem I have with Troia is that it does not play firm.  

Also in Portugal, is Praia d'el Rei that also plays on sandy soil for much of the round.  There are several holes that are hard against the sea and dunes come into play as well.  I do think the course suffers from over development too near the playing corridors.  And unfortunately, like Troia, it doesn't play like a links in that the ball doesn't run like it maybe should.  

There are a few others in Portugal that may be considered links as well ie; Estrella, Oporto.  Also one that comes to mind in France is Dinard.  I haven't been to these three, so I cannot offer a proper opinion on them.

Does it preclude a course from being a "true links" if the surface doesn't play firm?  Curious to your thoughts...


« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 04:39:14 PM by Joey Chase »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2014, 04:53:38 PM »
Joey:

I think all of the courses you mention were ruled out by the book because they are bermudagrass playing surfaces, not fescue [which is partly to blame for the lack of firm conditions, although it's possible for bermuda to play firm].  They just made a blanket rule about that, which isn't entirely fair.  I would certainly call El Saler a links; I have not played in Portugal yet.

Dinard is in the north of France and I believe it is fescue turf, too.  Granville is another, the linksiest course in France according to my friends.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2014, 05:02:18 PM »
Views of the sea are irrelevant.

Linksland is a very specific geological condition which separates the fertile land from the sea, i.e. the 'links' between the two.  In essence, whether they happen to be large or small, the course has to be on coastal sand dunes forged by nature and only naturally stabilised by gorse, broom and other plants and grasses which simply don't make their home on sand. In essence, if you could grow crops you don't have a links.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Joey Chase

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2014, 11:23:43 PM »
Tom,

Thank you for that clarification, now I remember reading that when I read the book a while ago about the warm season grasses.  Also, Granville is mentioned in the book as being one of the 246 true links.

Paul,

I guess I wasn't looking for a cookie cutter definition of links land, and am aware that sea views are irrelevant.  All three of the courses I mentioned have gorse, broom, a variety of grasses, and pines stabilizing the soil, and, at least the case for the two in Portugal, near the mouth of a river.   I am not too sure what crops could be grown on the land they occupy?  Tom's answer more or less answered my question in that warm season courses are out.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 11:29:29 PM by Joey Chase »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 03:41:42 AM »
Praia d Rey is a good course, but its definitely not a links.  As Tom said, the grass is wrong.  It plays quite similar to Kiawah, a bit sticky even if the course is firm.

Ciao  
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 06:25:20 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 09:55:11 AM »
Tom,

Thank you for that clarification, now I remember reading that when I read the book a while ago about the warm season grasses.  Also, Granville is mentioned in the book as being one of the 246 true links.

Paul,

I guess I wasn't looking for a cookie cutter definition of links land, and am aware that sea views are irrelevant.  All three of the courses I mentioned have gorse, broom, a variety of grasses, and pines stabilizing the soil, and, at least the case for the two in Portugal, near the mouth of a river.   I am not too sure what crops could be grown on the land they occupy?  Tom's answer more or less answered my question in that warm season courses are out.

For the record, I don't think bermudagrass courses should be disqualified automatically.  It is quite possible to get bermudagrass to play fast and firm with the right man in charge.  Humewood, in South Africa, is the best example of a seaside links that has bermuda fairways.  I don't know that any of the others Joey mentioned really pass the playing test, even though the soils and contours are certainly links.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2014, 09:52:53 PM »
Tom,

The bermuda turf on Streamsong Red & Blue makes them play remarkably like links courses. What's their secret?

Mike
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Brett Hochstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 10:14:34 AM »
Though nothing is as good as fescue, bermuda has the potential to be leaned out and play linksy, at least on long shots. 

Gary Dempsey had New South Wales looking incredible on bermuda during my visit there last September.  Brown, firm, blended, fast.  It might have been the best conditioned course through the green that I had seen that week in Australia.  Highly unfortunate for this lover of fast golf, I was unable to test it out due to a full course for Ladies Day. 
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 10:15:23 AM »
Tom,

The bermuda turf on Streamsong Red & Blue makes them play remarkably like links courses. What's their secret?

Mike

His name is Rusty Mercer.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 12:15:44 PM »
Tom,

The bermuda turf on Streamsong Red & Blue makes them play remarkably like links courses. What's their secret?

Mike

His name is Rusty Mercer.

 ;D He does a fantastic job!!!

But, what is it they do differently than courses in South Carolina (for example) that allows them to have the F&F surface? Can what Rusty does at Streamsong be replicated at other southern courses or is it specific to the site?
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2014, 12:30:50 PM »


But, what is it they do differently than courses in South Carolina (for example) that allows them to have the F&F surface? Can what Rusty does at Streamsong be replicated at other southern courses or is it specific to the site?


I'm sure there are several things that make bermuda more or less firm.  I think one of the main ones is keeping the thatch to a minimum.  Different cultivars of bermuda produce different amounts of thatch; we chose an older one that we thought wasn't quite as thatch-producing below the surface.  Being on sandy soil helps, as the roots go deeper, and it's easier to topdress with more sand to break up the thatch.

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2014, 03:44:23 PM »
Though nothing is as good as fescue, bermuda has the potential to be leaned out and play linksy, at least on long shots. 

Gary Dempsey had New South Wales looking incredible on bermuda during my visit there last September.  Brown, firm, blended, fast.  It might have been the best conditioned course through the green that I had seen that week in Australia.  Highly unfortunate for this lover of fast golf, I was unable to test it out due to a full course for Ladies Day. 


I visited RNSW and Gary Dempsey a few years go when the course was in the condition you describe simply because they did not have access to a lot of water.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Brett Hochstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: True Links in Europe
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2014, 04:45:59 PM »
Though nothing is as good as fescue, bermuda has the potential to be leaned out and play linksy, at least on long shots. 

Gary Dempsey had New South Wales looking incredible on bermuda during my visit there last September.  Brown, firm, blended, fast.  It might have been the best conditioned course through the green that I had seen that week in Australia.  Highly unfortunate for this lover of fast golf, I was unable to test it out due to a full course for Ladies Day. 


I visited RNSW and Gary Dempsey a few years go when the course was in the condition you describe simply because they did not have access to a lot of water.

Could be that, but it still proves the bermuda can survive droughty conditions and play fast.  Not all warm season grasses can handle that stress, and not all bermuda is managed like that.
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

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