[Garland Bayley]

I have to wonder if anyone posting to this thread knows Perranporth well enough to be choosing the right shots, or good enough to be hitting the right shots so that they can judge how much bad luck they actually experienced.

I played yesterday in a one hat blow off wind (slightly less than Perranporth) with a couple, the woman of which had to cancel her round at St. Enodoc to go play a qualifier at St. Andrews. She was carving shots into the wind at will and driving it farther then we boys. My joke was that I and her husband were going to send her back to play the blue tees.

[Sean_A]

...or good enough to be hitting the right shots so that they can judge how much bad luck they actually experienced.

How good do you reckon a golfer should be to judge luck? 

I don't subscribe to the "luck" theory of design.  Meaning, I don't believe that luck in terms of bounces etc plays much part in the outcome of shots.  Luck is when a player gets an unforseen break or hard cheese due to no intended action.  For instance, I pull my shot 25 yards off-line, it hits a rock  and goes in the hole - one should be so lucky - that is luck.  Hitting a shot down the middle and watching the ball caroom well left because that is what the terrain dictates is not luck - that is predictable.  It could well be in certain conditions P'porth has some shots which are extremely difficult to a) predict and b) even if predictable, the shot may be too difficult for many and c) if too difficult, there is little scope for an alternative route.   

P'porth essentially has space issue in some places.  Given the nature of some of the terrain, there aren't enough options in certain weather conditions.  I know P'porth well enough to know that for the likes of Buda, if the wind is up, guys should drop their pride and play some holes from the red tees.  Sure, stand back and blast away an old ball and see what gives, but then move up for the match.  Either that, or do a walk through the day before 

Ciao

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

...or good enough to be hitting the right shots so that they can judge how much bad luck they actually experienced.

How good do you reckon a golfer should be to judge luck? 

It's not a matter of golfing ability. It's a matter personality. Some people that come on here and lambast a course probably don't have the personality to give a good assessment of luck.

...if the wind is up, guys should drop their pride and play some holes from the red tees. 

Since it's match play, as long as the fairway can be reached it doesn't matter what tees.

[Peter Pallotta]

You know, Sean, I think this may be the only course you've ever profiled on here that I don't like the looks of. Call me crazy, but despite all the open sky and beautiful vistas, the course feels somehow cramped to me, hemmed-in by the hillocks as it were, and rather pinched in the playing.

No accounting for tastes, I suppose (mine, i mean, not yours).

Peter

[Sean_A]

GJ

I am not sure what matchplay has to do with anything.  A course is a course.  One has to negotiate his way round regardless of how or if score is kept. 

Pietro

I fully understand your position.  The only thing I would say is P'porth has bags of character that I wouldn't summarily dismiss for the sake of 3, 5 or 6 dubious shots on the course.  But, there is only so much time and money so its perfectly reasonable (to me at least) in using pix to make a call on courses.  Its not as if opinions are smashed in stone, but time and money are definitely finite resources.

Ciao

[Steve Wilson]

For what it's worth, I liked the course, but I would also like to play it in half the wind we experienced or even maybe a third of it.  However, if this had not been the BUDA there's no way I would have out for a second round.  I knew the course had been satisfied with body blows during the first round and was fully capable of finishing me off with an upper cut or a good left hook during the second eighteen.

If I lived near I could see play info it once a month or so.  And if I turned up and there a three to four club wind I'd just have a pint where I could sit and watch the defeated legions straggling home with their tales of woe.

Of course, if the winds we experienced were typical or not unusual then I would be less likely to play there.

[Thomas Dai]

Steve,

How did you find P'porth with hickories? Ball flight, different playing angles to others who were playing with modern equip, carries off the tee (and for other shots), any grab 'n' stop into the wind, ground game etc? I guess narrow flanged irons must have been useful off the tight fairway lies but what were they like from taller/thicker rough? Also, what ball did you play with?

atb

[Bryan Izatt]

Peter,

The pictures are perhaps a little misleading.  I felt that the course provided enough room in lots places.  The 1st and 9th are enormously wide.  There are some tight holes - 12 comes to mind.  Given the vicious wind we played in i don't recall feeling pinched.  B&B felt a lot narrower for the most part in much lighter winds.  But there are so many choices of courses in the UK i can understand if you gave it a miss.  It was for me, however, an experience I'm glad l had.


Regarding the element of luck at P'porth, it can cut both ways.  For instance on the 12th, with my partner in the gunch, I tried to play a safe 2 hybrid off the tee.  It was marginally left of the aiming marker and never seen again.  Lost the hole.  On the 16th a longish par 3, I chunked my tee shot so badly it might have flown 40 yards. Turning away in disgust I didn't watch it finish.  It ended up maybe 15 feet behind the hole in the back fringe and we closed out the match on that lucky shot.

[Steve Wilson]

Thomas,

I found Perranporth daunting, but that was as much due to the state of my game as it was the hickories.  Unfortunately I have quite a high ball flight even with hickories and the wind played havoc with a lot of my shot particularly as I was moving the ball left to right.  During the second round I did try to hit some low running shots into the wind with my low irons, a mashie and a mid iron.  Except for the one I smother hooked (not the hickories's fault), that worked pretty well. 

The greatest challenge  with the hickory shafts comes from the loss of distance.  Even well struck tee balls,
of which there were too few, left me hitting wooden clubs on many approaches.

I used Noodles until I ran out, a process Perranporth hastened, but with my clubs which are replicas, the manufacturer assures.me I can use any ball I would ordinarily.

If I were playing well and the winds were no more than 1 one club in strength I think I would the course manageable.

[Garland Bayley]

GJ

I am not sure what matchplay has to do with anything.  A course is a course.  One has to negotiate his way round regardless of how or if score is kept. 

...

In match play par has no meaning. You suggested moving up to red. If par has no meaning, why would one have to move up unless fairways were unreachable. I certainly can't think of any fairways that were unreachable.

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks Steve. It must have been pretty difficult with hickories ( or any equip!) given the wind strength that the guys spoke of.
Atb

[Sean_A]

GJ

I am not sure what matchplay has to do with anything.  A course is a course.  One has to negotiate his way round regardless of how or if score is kept.  

...

In match play par has no meaning. You suggested moving up to red. If par has no meaning, why would one have to move up unless fairways were unreachable. I certainly can't think of any fairways that were unreachable.

GJ

Despite your protests, I think it is well established there are some shots with a strong easterly wind that are beyond the pale.  It makes no difference how one keeps score to determine this, yet you fall back on matchplay as a way to combat the issue.  That makes no sense to me.  A course is a course and how one keeps score is a completely separate matter.  

I think you and I see golf architecture in a completely different light.  I like P'porth, but can readily understand its shortcomings.  As you seem to be typing words randomly and we are not really in a meaningful discourse, perhaps that is enough said.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

If some shots are beyond the pale, then don't try them. Try something else.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Garland I'm with you on this but we ain't gonna convince some  folk other wise.

I think in the afternoon match we halved the 5th hole ,straight into the wind, with 8's.   There were  couple of really good shots in that and it was never less than totaly engrossing.


Love, love Perranporth.


(But it's nothing like as good as Pennard )

BTW  I hope this doesn't come accross wrong. 
Having now  spent time with you I can hear you throwing these points out and I can see the grin. One of the failings of the internet is the grin gets lost.  I'm guessing my take on your comments is a little different than those who have never met you.

[Sean_A]

Spangles

The conversation has turned strange because P'porth is one of my favourite courses in England.  So it is difficult to understand your position which seems to be the course is perfect  , yet I don't hear you proclaiming P'porth as your favourite.  Then again, with all the waffling going on, it wouldn't surprise me if you said all courses were perfect.  I don't know about you, but I look forward to more games at P'porth, even with its inherent faults 

Ciao

[Bill_McBride]

Garland I'm with you on this but we ain't gonna convince some  folk other wise.

I think in the afternoon match we halved the 5th hole ,straight into the wind, with 8's.   There were  couple of really good shots in that and it was never less than totaly engrossing.


Love, love Perranporth.


(But it's nothing like as good as Pennard )

BTW  I hope this doesn't come accross wrong. 
Having now  spent time with you I can hear you throwing these points out and I can see the grin. One of the failings of the internet is the grin gets lost.  I'm guessing my take on your comments is a little different than those who have never met you.

Garland is an APFC.  Agent provocateur first class.

[Mark Pearce]

I think in the afternoon match we halved the 5th hole ,straight into the wind, with 8's.   There were  couple of really good shots in that and it was never less than totaly engrossing.

My partner and I were both in good shape in the afternoon on the 5th after 2 shots (both still two good blows from the green, though!) when our opponents conceded the hole, both having lost their balls (literally, not metaphorically).  In the morning three really good shots left us 40 yards short, from where another 6 were required to get down, losing to our opponents 8.  I think 5 is a really good hole.  Those results say more about the conditions than the course.

[David_Tepper]

"Garland is an APFC.  Agent provocateur first class."

Bill -

You could be half right.

DT

[James Boon]

I thought Perranporth was great fun in that wind. A real challenge and adventure! Would I want to play it like that on a regular basis, crikey no! But for occasional sport it was great fun!

I think in the afternoon match we halved the 5th hole ,straight into the wind, with 8's.   There were  couple of really good shots in that and it was never less than totaly engrossing.

My partner and I were both in good shape in the afternoon on the 5th after 2 shots (both still two good blows from the green, though!) when our opponents conceded the hole, both having lost their balls (literally, not metaphorically).  In the morning three really good shots left us 40 yards short, from where another 6 were required to get down, losing to our opponents 8.  I think 5 is a really good hole.  Those results say more about the conditions than the course.

I think the 5th seemed to be all about the second shot. Both times we played the 3rd hole there were people all around the mounds, humps and hollows that were off to the right of us therefore part of the second shot on the 5th hole, all seeming to have interesting times! Robin and I perhaps got lucky taking his decent drive and my 3 wood which managed to get past those humps and hollows leaving a 6 iron to the green in the morning which lead to a hard fought par. That afternoon, with the wind a little stronger, all 4 of us got caught up in those mounds with our second or third or more shot which lead to some real carnage that only the calmness that is Lou Duran managed to overcome...

I thought it was a good hole!

Cheers,

James

[Bryan Izatt]

I think I'll add these pics here as well as to the Buda thread.



Some more random images of Perranporth.  The scale of the place was enormous and very photogenic. 

The skyline 2nd green with two intrepid golfers.

 



The preceding foursome heading out on #3 with #5 coming back down on the right.  Enormous room to miss right on both holes.





Whitty about to embark on a search on the wrong side of #3.





An easy walk up to #3.





The 4th green is out there somewhere, although those guys look somewhat short.





Looking back up #5 with the follwing foursome descending.  Enormous scale and width. 

 



The nasty short uphill 6th.





Magnificent vistas looking across the 6th green.  (Except for the knobby knees.  )





Devilish swale in front of the 7th green.





The 8th is downtown somewhere.  Did they use up the world supply of aiming markers on this course!?   





Joe's good form on the 9th.





The 11th green where I hit a brilliant 7 iron to 15 feet below the flag after Tony's brilliant drive down the middle of the fairway only to find out we'd played the wrong ball.   





The aiming post on the 12th, where you can lose a ball hitting it over said post.





The 12th green.





Some golfers on the 14th tee.  Looks like a good place for a wind farm.   





The 14th green looks daunting.





Who are those guys waiting up there?  Must be lunch time.  We're on the clock to finish.





The 17th green, I think. 





All in all a wild ride.  Not sure I'd want to play it every day, but it was some experience, even in the wind.  Sadly we didn't get to finish the second nine of the second round to cement a memory of those holes.  The siren song of the Pityme Pub beckoned too sweetly.

[Lou_Duran]

The 6th is a fantastic short 3, specially in the wind we had.  Even if the wind was in the more common opposite direction, it would require a finessed short iron to hold the green.  Much better than the often photographed #7 at PBGL IMO.

The nasty short uphill 6th.





Magnificent vistas looking across the 6th green.  (Except for the knobby knees.  )

[Robert Thompson]

I found Perranporth's front nine even stranger than I thought, especially in a relatively strong wind through the first five holes.

However, my question is this -- was it routed as two separate nines in two periods? The back nine seemed to utilize the land much more effectively, and was more playable. The front nine struggled with some of the more difficult land. That, and the returning nines, made me wonder if Perranporth was nine (back nine first) with the second nine built at some point later. There are traditional links that return after nine, but they aren't common.

For what it is worth, I thought the back nine was exceptional. Every hole, maybe minus the 10th, was solid to very good, with some really great ones mixed in (12, and 15 for example).

I really enjoyed it and am glad I saw it.

[Garland Bayley]

According to James Braid and his Four Hundred Golf Courses Perranporth is perhaps his only 18 hole links design from scratch. The nines have been reversed from what he designed and intended. He visited the 10th of November, 1926. He had an excellent memory for landforms and could return home and send a detailed report on his design. He varied from this slightly first giving a detailed oral report at the Perranporth Hotel before returning home and sending his detailed report.

[Sean_A]

Robert

The front 9 covers more dramatic land so it is hard for me to understand how the back nine seemed to utilize the land much more effectively.  There are some crazy holes like the 4th, but a few crackers such as #s 6 & 9.  The back 9 to me is more mixed because the weakest hole is 15 (not sure why you think it is great); 10 isn't awesome either.  But 14 and 18 are very cool holes.  All in all, if the wind is reasonable, Perranporth is a very evocative course and not one to be missed.

Ciao

[Ian Andrew]

Glad we played it and really enjoyed it.
Once a year would be plenty, twice in one week is too much.

I think the constant warnings of "weird, blind, quirky and crazy" all helped prepare me for something weird but intriguing.
There are some great holes like the 12th and I also liked the 9th too.
Views are out of this world!

The bottom of the property is full of strange choices, from "why go there?", through to "why not head over there instead?".
If it was all available to him (left of three), he missed an easy and effective run out to the sea and back.

But in a strange way, I'm almost glad I played the 2nd through 5th.
It was an adventure like no other ... and that's not always a bad thing.

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