A New Problem For Architects!

[Dean Stokes]

Let me preface my point by saying I like Kenny Perry so this is not a knock on him and I also really don't care about the "pro v amateur" debate that continues with regards to equipment and how they score/hit the ball so much better/further.

Yesterday Perry won the Senior Tour event but on the last hole deliberately played his second shot into the par 5 last to cannon off the grandstands at the back and give him a chnce to chip and putt for the win. By his own admittance his 3 iron was risking carrying the lake had he not pured it but his 5 wood was too much however he knew the "green monster" (netting that covers the stands) would make an assist!

How can an architect get around that one? And what has this game come to when that is now the way a golf tournament can be decided? My dad always said money would ruin sports.....you know the older I get the smarter my dad gets.

[Brent Hutto]

If I were the USGA, R&A or PGA Tour I'd adopt a local rule for these competitions. If you strike a grandstand (or netting or whatever) you get a free replay of your shot. I used to play at a public course with a fairly low-hanging powerline crossing the first hole about 120 yards from the green. Local rule was any ball striking the wire was required to be replayed from the original spot under no penalty.

[Jeff Taylor]

Without money there would be no tournament. Is there a solution to this problem? Can't make them into hazards can we? Maybe a man of honor would have choked the 5 wood and carved it in there.  

[Keith Grande]

Without money there would be no tournament. Is there a solution to this problem? Can't make them into hazards can we? Maybe a man of honor would have choked the 5 wood and carved it in there.  

Put out of bounds stakes behind the green?

[Ronald Montesano]

Hate me, but this is stupid. There are no nets nor grandstands in play in every day golf and it is not the problem of the architect.

[jeffwarne]

Hate me, but this is stupid. There are no nets nor grandstands in play in every day golf and it is not the problem of the architect.

agreed

make the golfer liable for any injuries caused by play into a grandstand behind a green

[Dean Stokes]

Guys I had to bring the Architect in somewhere or else we would be OT Still I find it sad that a player would intentionally aim at the stand in order to benefit rather than taking on the cut 5 wood or laying up front left corner. I think making the stand behind the green OB is not that bad of an idea.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Not an architect problem but is there not a rule where you can now be disqualified for effectively not playing the game properly? And if so then that surely is a serious breach that does not deserve a warning.

[Greg Tallman]

Not an architect problem but is there not a rule where you can now be disqualified for effectively not playing the game properly? And if so then that surely is it. If there is not a rule....make one.

Or just remind them of Jean Claude Van Damme, or was it Killey? Sometimes the plan backfires.

[Thomas Dai]

I've heard a few shouts of "hit a grandstand" in pro tournaments over the years, including The Open. Indeed I understand that at the Dubai Desert Classic players have been known in some circumstances to deliberately hit into the vertically faced 'glassed in' hospitality stand/grandstand close to the left of the 18th green hoping to rebound close or get a free drop.

The grandstand and temporary hospitality buildings, indeed, advertising signs and TV towers too, and the allowance of a free drop for 'line of sight' or the provision of a drop-zone, sometimes nearer the green and often on nicely mown grass, has often bemused me.

It's not an architect issue to me though, it's a rules issue.

Perhaps there should be no drop zone/free drop if near grandstands and the like, and if obstructed by one, or advertising boards or TV towers or hospitality stands etc it's tough, the player should have to play the ball as it lies coz they shouldn't have hit it there in the first place.

This example makes me have sympathy with Jean van der Velde on the 18th at Carnoustie, bad thinking and bad shot by him yes, but he didn't aim for the grandstand and got a distinctly unfriendly outcome.

atb

[Garland Bayley]

These guys are supposed to be the best in the world. Why do they make things easier for them, just because they make money from people attending and sitting in grandstands? I see no reason why they can't make the grandstand, or hitting its protective netting OB. They extended OB to some of the stands at Liverpool for their open. Why not everywhere? And, make these guys play the game as intended, instead of giving them cheap bail out areas.

[Jeff Taylor]

These guys are supposed to be the best in the world. Why do they make things easier for them, just because they make money from people attending and sitting in grandstands? I see no reason why they can't make the grandstand, or hitting its protective netting OB. They extended OB to some of the stands at Liverpool for their open. Why not everywhere? And, make these guys play the game as intended, instead of giving them cheap bail out areas.

Want to hear some players cry like babies?

[Paul Gray]

Hate me, but this is stupid. There are no nets nor grandstands in play in every day golf and it is not the problem of the architect.

+1

And I do believe has suggested a perfectly workable solution for tournament play.

The end.

[Matthew Petersen]

These guys are supposed to be the best in the world. Why do they make things easier for them, just because they make money from people attending and sitting in grandstands? I see no reason why they can't make the grandstand, or hitting its protective netting OB. They extended OB to some of the stands at Liverpool for their open. Why not everywhere? And, make these guys play the game as intended, instead of giving them cheap bail out areas.

Fear of Pat Mucci threads.

[Mike_Young]

Dean,
I think the bigger problem for architects and golf is that so many good players now plan a miss or aim for bunkers.  That was never the intention of a bunker.....most of us never play around grandstands....

[Pat Burke]

Got to tell you, I played the '95 Open At St Andrews.
Played more than 10 practice rounds plus 4 tournament rounds.
Got to know the course very well.

If I went there on a golf trip, I would have a very hard time finding targets for a
lot of shots.  I was aiming at bleachers, tv towers, and scoreboards a lot!

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Guys I had to bring the Architect in somewhere or else we would be OT Still I find it sad that a player would intentionally aim at the stand in order to benefit rather than taking on the cut 5 wood or laying up front left corner. I think making the stand behind the green OB is not that bad of an idea.

Not to nit pick, but the only time KP would hit a left to righter is if he caught the hosel.  He is physically unable to hit a fade.  I always thought the perfect ballstriking machine would be Perry hitting all the draw shots, and Lietzke hitting all the fade shots.  Now to find someone to chip and putt...

I agree that intentionally hitting the grandstand over the green is a bit unsportsmanlike.  How about a mandatory drop area for any shot coming in contact with the grandstand complex, regardless of where it ends up.  You could put it in an unfavorable but not dead position.  The best would be a player striking an awning, it drops on the green, rolls into the cup and he has to go retrieve it and dejectedly mope over to the drop area.  As for the stands being OB, OB is basically the nuclear option of architecture and ideally should not be used at all.  What if a guy skulls a bunker shot into the stand?  That would be a bit rough, IMO.

[D_Malley]

I like what they did at the brittish open.
They made the drop zone in an area with waist high rough.

They said it was to avoid this exact situation.

[Doug Siebert]

Got to tell you, I played the '95 Open At St Andrews.
Played more than 10 practice rounds plus 4 tournament rounds.
Got to know the course very well.

If I went there on a golf trip, I would have a very hard time finding targets for a
lot of shots.  I was aiming at bleachers, tv towers, and scoreboards a lot!

You were using them as an aiming point, not trying to actually hit them.  Big difference from what Kenny Perry did.

[Rick Shefchik]

I like what they did at the brittish open.
They made the drop zone in an area with waist high rough.

They said it was to avoid this exact situation.

Didn't notice this, but if it was the case, +1.

[Garland Bayley]

...  What if a guy skulls a bunker shot into the stand?  That would be a bit rough, IMO.

These guys are supposed to be the best in the world. If they skull a bunker shot, so be it.

When you start playing your rounds with grandstands full of spectators in play, then we might have to have the Bacsanyi exception.

As they say at Ren. Golf Des. fair is the F word.