[Adrian_Stiff]

Why not, because only 1% of golfers are interested so it is not best commercial practice. I think it is likely that by trying to achieve a reversed routing the best possible routing will suffer. I think it is hard to build greens that sit correctly both ways, yes you could play to some with the green falling to the back...but how many times and its a chore, one will end a superior and it is likely it could have been better. Just my opinion. I hope TD can pull it off though. If he gets 90% of it right, it still means some days the customer is getting a bad rap.

Is the commercial aspect not somewhat mitigated by the fact that FD will now have 54 potential holes instead of 36? And how is the customer getting a possible bad rap some days any different from the customer not being able to play their favorite 18 of a 36 hole complex due to outings, maintenance, member play, inconvenient tee times, etc?

Commercially you dont have 54 holes. Customer is getting a bad rap if the day he plays he is getting the 'inferior one' perhaps the club will tell people in advance if it is the A course or B course in which case bookings will show the preference and if the course gets more plays one way it is likely it will stay that way. Despite the romance we do live in a very commercial world. If anyone can pull it off it will Tom. It needs the perfect aligning of planets so I can't see this happening on enough sites to be a gimmick.  I hate the "try it with someone else's money" line.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think there is a value to a reversible course, especially when its a nine hole course that will never be able to expand to 18 holes.

The good news is there will be 3 examples in Europe and US to look at in a few years to see if it actually works.

In this instance with very limited play yes I can see the positive.

[Mark Fedeli]

Commercially you dont have 54 holes. Customer is getting a bad rap if the day he plays he is getting the 'inferior one' perhaps the club will tell people in advance if it is the A course or B course in which case bookings will show the preference and if the course gets more plays one way it is likely it will stay that way. Despite the romance we do live in a very commercial world. If anyone can pull it off it will Tom. It needs the perfect aligning of planets so I can't see this happening on enough sites to be a gimmick.  I hate the "try it with someone else's money" line.

Part of the great GCA value here would be for Forest Dunes to not specify in their own labeling or marketing which course is the better or main track. Allow players to decide that for themselves. If the majority decide one course is better than the other, like they are free to do at any number of multi-course complexes, then they can arrange their playing schedules likewise.

To your point, it absolutely does need the perfect alignment of planets, which is why an 18 hole version is so rare, and why we should, as GCA fans, be excited it is even happening at all, and that this team is involved. That's not pie-in-the-sky thinking as much as it is genuine excitement for the world of GCA.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Why not, because only 1% of golfers are interested so it is not best commercial practice. 

But practically all innovations are not interesting to people as before there is an example potential customers cannot understand what they don't know about. Seems to me that best commercial practice thinking leads to conformity and leads to the industry becoming like sheep BAAAA

The only way this works is if both courses are of very similar standard that no one really prefers A over B. Opinions in my opinion will differ.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I think it is hard to build greens that sit correctly both ways, yes you could play to some with the green falling to the back...but how many times and its a chore

Adrian

We've built many greens that sit correctly from multiple (4) directions.
Wolf Point wasn't built specifically to play in reverse, we did consider it as an option, and cross country golf is very popular with some of the semi-regulars.
The ultimate reason why we didn't build a reversible course was because the reverse would have had more greenside forced carries.
We placed the hazards behind the greens in most instances.

Lastly, Tom's experiences at The Sheep Ranch and elsewhere are probably similar, in that their greens can be played from multiple directions.

Cheers

[Jon Wiggett]

Why not, because only 1% of golfers are interested so it is not best commercial practice. 

But practically all innovations are not interesting to people as before there is an example potential customers cannot understand what they don't know about. Seems to me that best commercial practice thinking leads to conformity and leads to the industry becoming like sheep BAAAA

The only way this works is if both courses are of very similar standard that no one really prefers A over B. Opinions in my opinion will differ.

Adrian, I fully agree with the first sentence in relation to quality of playing interest though you will always get people preferring A over B and naturally other people who will prefer B over A.

[Andy Troeger]

I hate the "try it with someone else's money" line.

Be that as it may, it is very easy for me to sit here and say it is a great idea. It is another to invest/build something. I wouldn't have the guts to try it, but I hope it is successful.

[Ed Oden]

As some may recall, Lester George created a rather ingenious plan for a reversible practice course at Dormie Club...



Here is a link to a thread from a couple of years ago discussing the plan... http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50913.0.html

Hopefully Lester's plan is realized one day!

[Jason Topp]

Joel Goldstrand built a number of such courses in Minnesota.  Joel's architecture is pretty strange in many respects (with a couple of courses I really like) and I have not liked the two reversible 9 hole courses of his that I played.  They look extremely awkward - bunkers face the wrong way, sometimes it is difficult to find the next tee and the greens neeed to be designed to be approached from two different directions.

Successfully designing such a course seems geometrically more difficult than designing 9 good holes. 

It will be interesting to see how Forest Dunes works.

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