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Brian_Ewen

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15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« on: July 27, 2014, 03:31:19 AM »
http://www.foxsports.com.au/golf/robert-craddock-revisits-barry-burn-the-scene-of-one-of-golfs-great-meltdowns/story-e6frf3oc-1227002681955?nk=4f6ce7baef871c08b935f6e9db4c5b7b

Robert Craddock revisits Barry Burn, the scene of one of golf’s great meltdowns
Robert Craddock in Glasgow The Courier-Mail July 26, 2014




GLASGOW has been gushing with goodwill during the opening days of the Commonwealth Games, but two hours up the road there is a secluded Siberia that still feels like the loneliest place on Earth.

It’s called Barry Burn. I jumped into it last week to “celebrate’’ the 15th anniversary of one of the most dramatic moments in golfing history.

Instantly I felt vulnerable and overawed. The mossy stone walls are higher than you are. The water lapping at your feet is cold. It feels like a torture chamber. You feel trapped and helpless. And if you’re a golfer, you are.

Jean Van de Velde smiled for the cameras when he came here — inwardly he must have been terrified. It is 15 years last week since the most spectacular one-hole car crash is golf history, when Frenchman Van de Velde started the final hole of the British Open at Carnoustie with a three-shot lead and fell to pieces with a triple-bogey seven to lose the unlosable tournament in a playoff.

After spraying his drive, hitting the grandstand with his second and scrambling in the rough, he finished up in Barry Burn and watched in horror as the tide came in to cover his ball after it was initially half covered. It was pure madness but some of the best theatre golf has ever seen.

Van de Velde’s name is heard on a daily basis floating around the fairways on the gusty breezes that whip in off the North Sea, brutally tormenting golfers to the point where the course is nicknamed Car-Nasty.

“Every single day that’s all people want to know about,’’ caddie Ben Greenhill said, as one of his bag-swinging mates chips in with, “You get to the 17th and they start talking about it, then when you get to the 18th you’ll get an American ask: The French guy . . . where was he?’’

Some of the post scripts to the incident have been as crazy as the incident itself. A few months after his collapse, Van de Velde did a midwinter TV commercial playing the 18th hole exclusively with a putter.

The fairways were so icy they had to be hosed and defrosted but in conditions that would make a snowman shiver, Van de Velde went out and — wait for it — shot a six, a score that would have won him the Open by a stroke (we repeat, with a putter).

One man’s failure also triggered another man’s fame when, a day after the collapse, Carnoustie caddie master Pat Healy, then a 57-year-old grandfather of three, was asked by a newspaper to have a crack at playing the shot out of the watery burn that Van de Velde refused to play and, with mud and slush flying everywhere, earned a rousing ovation from a group of tourists when his third shot lobbed on the green.

“I did a deal that I get paid every time those photos are used and have been paid about 700 pounds and the cheques still trickle in,’’ Healy said. “Interest never dies.’’

The popular Van de Velde, in his whimsical French way, never lost his sense of humour but Carnoustie understandably rocked his life.

A month later he split with his caddie, Christophe Angiolini, and hired and fired four more in a year.

Angiolini initially didn’t sleep for a week. He had a massive drinking session in Van de Velde’s room the night of the loss where both men dissolved into tears. Van de Velde told him, “We should be proud of what we did’’ but within a month he was looking for a job.

Van de Velde also split with his wife, who later walked onto a course mid-tournament with two lawyers attempting to serve him legal documents only to be marched off, a far cry from the tender support she gave on his day of infamy.

Van de Velde is rarely seen around these parts but when he did visit a few weeks ago he told Carnoustie staff about a key thought process that explained the entire debacle.

“I did not do that much wrong,’’ he said. “I hit that two-iron off the fairway towards the grandstand knowing you got a free drop if you got trapped there.

“I never expected to hit a pole in the grandstand and end up in the rough. Twenty players hit that stand that week. Everyone else stayed there and got a drop.’’

Van de Velde accepts his lot without protest. He and Carnoustie are now as inseparable as Norman and Augusta, or Napoleon and Waterloo.

Tom_Doak

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2014, 10:31:58 AM »
Van de Velde is rarely seen around these parts but when he did visit a few weeks ago he told Carnoustie staff about a key thought process that explained the entire debacle.

“I did not do that much wrong,’’ he said. “I hit that two-iron off the fairway towards the grandstand knowing you got a free drop if you got trapped there.

“I never expected to hit a pole in the grandstand and end up in the rough. Twenty players hit that stand that week. Everyone else stayed there and got a drop.’’

I have always thought this was the part of the story that didn't receive enough attention.

Everyone was so busy advocating their own, better way to play the hole, that they never acknowledged that Van de Velde DID have a plan.  He knew if he could get across the burn with the second shot, the championship was his.  And he did it -- except the ball rebounded back to the near side, into an impossible lie! 

He must have known right then that he was totally screwed.  I can't imagine how he would have put himself back together fast enough to salvage the hole.

Rick Shefchik

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2014, 10:42:01 AM »
Yes, but intentionally aiming for the grandstand is neither fool-proof nor particularly noble. Lots of metal and wood to bounce off in the bleachers. Perhaps Jean got what he deserved.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Ken Moum

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2014, 11:08:35 AM »
Yes, but intentionally aiming for the grandstand is neither fool-proof nor particularly noble. Lots of metal and wood to bounce off in the bleachers. Perhaps Jean got what he deserved.

Players have been doing that for years.

That ball had to hit a round railing perfectly to bounce all the way back to the burn.

I've been saying for 15 years that it was the single worst break I have ever seen on a golf course.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

JLahrman

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2014, 02:41:00 PM »
The rebound off the grandstand back across the burn is the worst break I've ever seen.

We can debate hitting driver off the tee, but after that he made the correct play with every shot.

I don't believe he was aiming directly at the grandstand. I know that he pushed it into the grandstand, but I don't know by how much.

Pat Burke

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2014, 02:45:45 PM »
Yes, but intentionally aiming for the grandstand is neither fool-proof nor particularly noble. Lots of metal and wood to bounce off in the bleachers. Perhaps Jean got what he deserved.

Agree on fool-proof

Watching Arnold rocket shots int the gallery at Whitemarsh and Westchester as a kid,
I might disagree on noble! ;D

Bill_McBride

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2014, 03:04:52 PM »
Yes, but intentionally aiming for the grandstand is neither fool-proof nor particularly noble. Lots of metal and wood to bounce off in the bleachers. Perhaps Jean got what he deserved.

Players have been doing that for years.

That ball had to hit a round railing perfectly to bounce all the way back to the burn.

I've been saying for 15 years that it was the single worst break I have ever seen on a golf course.

K

Three 8-irons and he wins.  By three.  Hit across the burn toward the bleachers, what could possibly go wrong?   ;D

mike_beene

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2014, 03:12:04 PM »
Don't forget how tight the OB left of the green was. More reason to aim right.

Pat Burke

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2014, 03:16:44 PM »
Yes, but intentionally aiming for the grandstand is neither fool-proof nor particularly noble. Lots of metal and wood to bounce off in the bleachers. Perhaps Jean got what he deserved.

Players have been doing that for years.

That ball had to hit a round railing perfectly to bounce all the way back to the burn.

I've been saying for 15 years that it was the single worst break I have ever seen on a golf course.

K

Three 8-irons and he wins.  By three.  Hit across the burn toward the bleachers, what could possibly go wrong?   ;D

I played a Scottish Open at Carnoustie.  Not sure I could hit an 8 iron in play on 18 off the tee ;D
Played 6 rounds there, still don't know how to play that hole! :D

Sean_A

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2014, 03:17:36 PM »
The biggest part of his problem was his driver off the tee.  He was hitting that club like a dog for several holes.  That said, I am not sure how much carry he needed to reach the fairway.  Suffice it to say, an 8 iron would have come up well short.  What I couldn't figure out is why he didn't lay-up back in the fairway rather than try to hit one over water near the grandstand.  That shot seemed unnecessarily dangerous with a 3 shot lead...and it proved to be the case.  The bounce off the grand stand may have been a bad break, but it was a bad shot using a suspect plan.  I still thnk that if VdV had a good caddiem he wins the Open.

Ciao  
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield & Alnmouth,

Niall C

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2014, 03:32:53 PM »
Sean

The driver had been working for him all week. As long as he didn't hook it wildly he was generally going to be OK and that was what happened. He did push his drive but went beyond rough on the right and had a perfect lie. From their the right hand side was the correct play. He was either going to be on the green, in the bunker or getting a drop from the grandstand.

What happened next was a freak where he hit a 2 inch bit of scaffolding that was sticking out and as I remember it the ball came back over the burn. That's when he f*cked up by not going out sideways at that point, chipping on from their taking his two putts and composing his winners speech.

Niall

Ken Moum

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2014, 03:55:04 PM »
Niall Carlton, "That's when he f*cked up by not going out sideways at that point, chipping on from their taking his two putts and composing his winners speech."

Niall, and everyone who thinks he should have laid up, the fairway sideways from his location in the knee deep rough was 12 yards wide. TWELVE.

Do you really think he could have pulled that off--controlling punch out distance that well out of that rough?

The same applies to any layup.

After the controversy of 15 years ago, I took the time to watch my recording of the last hole several times and I am convinced that all of the "safe" options people have mentioned here and elsewhere were actually any safer than what he did.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Niall C

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2014, 04:08:41 PM »
Ken

I'm happy to concede I might be wrong as it was 15 years ago and memory does play its tricks but I was sat in the stand at the 18th watching him play. I had been there every day of Open plus the practice days and I'm pretty sure the fairway was a good bit wider than 12 yards, and that doesn't inlcude the semi on either side.

But for the sake of argument, lets say it was 12 yards. Do you really think chomping the ball forward with a water hazard in front of you was a better play than trying to come out sideways ? If we were to ask Van de Velde now I wonder what he would say.

Niall

JLahrman

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2014, 04:12:16 PM »
What I couldn't figure out is why he didn't lay-up back in the fairway rather than try to hit one over water near the grandstand.  That shot seemed unnecessarily dangerous with a 3 shot lead...and it proved to be the case.

Because he only had about 180 yards to clear the water. If he had tried to put it back out in the fairway and missed it (it was a diagonal angle) now he's in the rough and he STILL has to go over the water. Getting it over the water was all he needed to do to lock up 6 at the worst, and he did it until he got that ridiculous kick backwards off the piping.

JLahrman

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2014, 04:14:19 PM »
Ken

I'm happy to concede I might be wrong as it was 15 years ago and memory does play its tricks but I was sat in the stand at the 18th watching him play. I had been there every day of Open plus the practice days and I'm pretty sure the fairway was a good bit wider than 12 yards, and that doesn't inlcude the semi on either side.

But for the sake of argument, lets say it was 12 yards. Do you really think chomping the ball forward with a water hazard in front of you was a better play than trying to come out sideways ? If we were to ask Van de Velde now I wonder what he would say.

Niall

Yes, because if he had played sideways he may have chopped it into an even worse lie, and still had to negotiate the water. If the lie was bad enough that he couldn't get it over that burn, then it was also bad enough that he easily might not have gotten it into the fairway if he had played sideways.

Niall C

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2014, 04:19:55 PM »
So what you're saying is that it was better to risk going in the water, possibly taking a one shot penalty and then dropping the ball in the rough rather than playing a shot that still left you in the rough ? Can't say I see the logic in that.

Niall

JLahrman

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2014, 04:53:38 PM »
So what you're saying is that it was better to risk going in the water, possibly taking a one shot penalty and then dropping the ball in the rough rather than playing a shot that still left you in the rough ? Can't say I see the logic in that.

Niall

Yes. There is no scenario that could have happened from where he played that third shot that couldn't have also happened had he tried to go sideways and left it in the rough. Unless he continued to play sideways until he got to the fairway, which would have taken at least one shot and quite possibly more.

He didn't really have a lot of great options there. If he'd gotten it over and wound up with his 6, we'd be congratulating him on his bold play. And if he'd tried to go sideways and pitched into a worse lie, the criticism would have been twice as much as it was.

Jon Wiggett

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2014, 05:04:30 PM »
What always got me was that he deliberately hit his ball at a group of people. I would say it was a good job he hit metal and not a spectator.

Jon

David Stamm

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2014, 05:16:54 PM »


What happened next was a freak where he hit a 2 inch bit of scaffolding that was sticking out and as I remember it the ball came back over the burn. That's when he f*cked up by not going out sideways at that point, chipping on from their taking his two putts and composing his winners speech.

Niall

I completely agree. The 2 iron was not the brainless shot. It was not having the good sense to pitch out sideways AFTER the 2 iron did not work out the way he hoped. He dodged a bullet by the 2nd shot NOT going in the burn.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Bill_McBride

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2014, 06:50:27 PM »
I've never played Carnoustie but I have looked at aerials of the course and 18th hole. 

Are you telling me you couldn't play a short iron to the right and short of the burn, another to the fairway short of the burn, and a third onto the green?   The hole is 445 from the tips, wouldn't that be three short irons for an elite player?

There's a time to go for broke and a time to lay up.  As a result of his bad decision, M. Van de Velde has become a punch line rather than an Open champion. 

Ken Moum

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2014, 08:09:12 PM »
I've never played Carnoustie but I have looked at aerials of the course and 18th hole. 

Are you telling me you couldn't play a short iron to the right and short of the burn, another to the fairway short of the burn, and a third onto the green?   The hole is 445 from the tips, wouldn't that be three short irons for an elite player?

There's a time to go for broke and a time to lay up.  As a result of his bad decision, M. Van de Velde has become a punch line rather than an Open champion. 

Of course he could have.

But I challenge you to show me even one time where:

1-A modern professional golfer
2-Playing well enough to lead a major by several shots
3-Standing on the 18th tee

Then chose to play three short iron shots on a ~450 yard hole.

Pro golfers simply don't think like that....EVER.

To those who question "aiming at spectators," I'm pretty sure he said he aimed for the green knowing a miss on that side would be okay.

Re. going over the burn on his third shot, only Jean knows what his lie was like for that shot.  If the lie was good enough to attempt a pitch out to a narrow fairway, it certainly should have been good enough to hack over the burn, pitch on and two putt for the win.

Don't forget that even after dropping out of the burn in to that rough, he managed to get down in three.

I've played in hundreds of golf tournaments, won some and peed several down mum leg, and I've NEVER seen a leader with little confidence in themselves that they played two or more short iron shots to make bogey or double for a win.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Jonathan Mallard

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2014, 08:23:44 PM »

I've played in hundreds of golf tournaments, won some and peed several down mum leg, and I've NEVER seen a leader with little confidence in themselves that they played two or more short iron shots to make bogey or double for a win.

K

David Toms

Quail Hollow.

8 on 18 - a par 4. Still had one shot to spare.

Bill_McBride

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2014, 08:49:51 PM »
Anybody know what the carry was over the burn on the tee shot?

I would also add David Toms' layup at Atlanta to win the PGA. 

JLahrman

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2014, 08:59:56 PM »
Unless memory serves me incorrectly, David Toms didn't hit iron-iron-iron at the 18th hole at Quail Hollow. He simply hacked up the hole. He may have used something other than driver off the tee, but I certainly don't recall it being a short iron. I do believe he 4-putted.

And in his PGA Championship win, he laid up because he couldn't go for the green in two after a less-than-stellar drive. He didn't hit iron off the tee, and laying up short was not his plan until he drove into the rough. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.

If we're just talking about hitting irons off the tee, we can just look back to Rory McIlroy on the 72nd tee last week.

Ken Moum

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Re: 15 years since one of golf’s great meltdowns
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2014, 09:05:56 PM »

I've played in hundreds of golf tournaments, won some and peed several down mum leg, and I've NEVER seen a leader with little confidence in themselves that they played two or more short iron shots to make bogey or double for a win.

K

David Toms

Quail Hollow.

8 on 18 - a par 4. Still had one shot to spare.

I just looked that up.  He made eight, but it was only because he played like a 15 handicapper.

And his other famous layup was to make birdie.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

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