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Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« on: July 25, 2014, 06:51:34 PM »
I want to start this off from saying that I am from Montreal and I have never even stepped foot on the property of the Royal Montreal golf club. That being said, I have seen it in photos, 3 Canadian Opens, and 1 President's Cup now. Does anyone share my opinion that this may in fact be the world's most overrated golf course? I don't know if it is still in the World Top 100, but either way, it was there for a long time.

I don't see how this course is any better than any of the other mediocre golf courses that were built in the 1950s.
Can someone tell me what I am missing? Is it so highly regarded just because their club has the distinction of being the oldest in North America?
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Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2014, 07:19:27 PM »
What you are missing, sir, is any first-hand experience.
Judging a course solely by photos is like commenting on a wine solely by looking at its label.

Dick Wilson built some great golf courses and studied under William Flynn at Merion...sort of.

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Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2014, 08:31:15 PM »
Quote from: Ian Mackenzie on July 25, 2014, 07:19:27 PM
What you are missing, sir, is any first-hand experience.

I am not disagreeing with you, hence the full disclosure. However, I am pretty sure I can easily tell someone based on seeing a course on television a lot that a course is by no-means a World Top 100.
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Ronald Montesano

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2014, 08:56:24 PM »
More importantly, Wilson worked with Donald Ross in North Carolina. See Pine Crest if you have any questions.
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2014, 09:00:02 PM »
Matt,

I haven't seen Royal Montreal either, but it does seem odd to proclaim a course you haven't seen the "world's most overrated".

Overrated based on pictures and TV, well, ok. But, to win the title of "world's most overrated" seems like at least one visit would be in order.

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Tim Weiman

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2014, 09:21:45 PM »
It hasn't been in the top 100 lists for 20 years.  It was surely overrated back then.  I'm not sure it's even listed in the top 10 in Canada anymore, even with some free token points for being the only course in Quebec that's close.

Note:  I have never played it myself; never had any strong interest in going to see it, though Montreal is a wonderful city.
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Paul OConnor

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2014, 09:55:12 PM »
Quote from: David Schmidt on July 25, 2014, 09:26:12 PM
Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 25, 2014, 09:21:45 PM
It hasn't been in the top 100 lists for 20 years.  It was surely overrated back then.  I'm not sure it's even listed in the top 10 in Canada anymore, even with some free token points for being the only course in Quebec that's close.

Note:  I have never played it myself; never had any strong interest in going to see it, though Montreal is a wonderful city.

Exactly.

Besides, Chicago Golf Club is the world's most overrated course. :) 

Right in front of Shoreacres.
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Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2014, 12:25:13 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 25, 2014, 09:21:45 PM
It hasn't been in the top 100 lists for 20 years.  It was surely overrated back then.  I'm not sure it's even listed in the top 10 in Canada anymore, even with some free token points for being the only course in Quebec that's close.

Note:  I have never played it myself; never had any strong interest in going to see it, though Montreal is a wonderful city.

Yeah, I think the most recent Score golf ranking has it at 12 (I think!). It was in the Top 5 for a long time though.

I find it unfortunate that Montreal is such a golfing wasteland.
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Matthew MacKay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2014, 06:03:40 AM »
There isn't much Wilson left at RM. It's essentially a Rees Jones design after a heavy reno he did about 10 years ago.

I don't think it's fair to say that MTL is a 'golfing wasteland'. Beaconsfield is decent, Mount Bruno is excellent, and Laval Sur Le Lac may be the best 36 hole club in Canada. The Green course is a sporty Willie Park Jr. layout and the new Blue course, a Mike Weir/Ian Andrew collaboration, is simply superb. It will be fascinating to see the Open there in 2017.
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Ivan Lipko

Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2014, 06:11:00 AM »
Would love play this wasteland. Anyone cares to invite me for a round next time I am in Canada? ;D
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Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2014, 06:19:20 AM »
Matthew, a better 36 than Devil's in Caledon, Ontario?

Ivan, thanks for righting the ship and making me smile, on two simultaneous threads.
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Don Hyslop

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2014, 06:31:16 AM »
The latest Score rankings has Royal Montreal Blue at #15 in Canada which is much too high.
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Ian Andrew

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2014, 08:05:13 AM »
It's a decidedly average course, always was.

It gets full marks for being the oldest club and having a pretty influential membership.
The Red at Royal is more interesting to me.
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Jud_T

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2014, 09:55:29 AM »
I'll take it sight unseen over Rich Harvest Farms...
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Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2014, 11:19:02 AM »
Well, seems no one has said anything in this thread to makes me change my current suspicion.
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the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2014, 11:54:24 AM »
Quote from: matt kardash on July 26, 2014, 11:19:02 AM
Well, seems no one has said anything in this thread to makes me change my current suspicion.

True, but...saying that it's the world's most overrated course is just a bit hyperbolic, IMO.
I was born and raised in Montreal, have played it a few times and while perhaps underwhelming, it does not merit such an extreme title.

Matt, try a new thread....like, " Worlds's Most Overrated Golf Course...?"
If RM wins out, then I will gladly eat my words.

Cheers
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Matthew MacKay

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2014, 01:42:01 PM »
Ron, The Paintbrush may be the best of the 4 courses, but the sum of LSLL is greater than DP.
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Steve Salmen

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2014, 02:04:53 PM »
I think it looks fine on TV.  I've never been there but it reminds me of Milwaukee CC.
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Matthew Rose

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2014, 02:48:47 PM »
Compared the holes on TV with an old World Atlas of Golf book of mine... It looks like it might have been marginally more interesting pre-Rees. All I see now is a lot of 10 and 2 bunkering with not a lot of angles. Even the water holes seem to have been neutered; the greens have been moved further away in some cases.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2014, 06:58:18 PM »
Quote from: Steve Salmen on July 26, 2014, 02:04:53 PM
I think it looks fine on TV.  I've never been there but it reminds me of Milwaukee CC.

Is Royal Montreal hilly?  I never had that impression, based on the map in the World Atlas of Golf, probably because of the ponds.  The clubhouse at Milwaukee CC is on a pretty good hill, and nearly half the holes utilize the hill in some way.
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Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2014, 08:39:47 PM »
I last played RM in 1970.  it appears to have been changed a bit, I thought it was excellent in 1970 and still consider it a fine tournament venue, with one of Canada's best memberships. 

Matt, are you a Kardashian ?   
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Gary Slatter
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Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2014, 08:50:54 PM »
It's not hilly, that's the reason most golf around that area is average.
The sites are on the flat side and the soils are clay/shale.

Mount Bruno is on interesting terrain.
So is Beaconsfield... at one point Beaconsfield had great architecture but most of it has been dumbed down over the years.
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Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2014, 09:10:21 PM »
Quote from: Matthew MacKay on July 26, 2014, 01:42:01 PM
Ron, The Paintbrush may be the best of the 4 courses, but the sum of LSLL is greater than DP.
I have played both of the DPs and none of LSLL but I highly doubt that LSLL can match DP for best 36 hole complex in Canada. You might also be able to add Mississauga and Credit Valley to the list as, although not the same club, they are on contiguous property, unlike DP.
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Keith Phillips

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2014, 10:09:36 PM »
I haven't played the Blue course in 15 years, but it earned my respect when I did play it - several well-bunkered, elevated greens - perhaps not top 100 but very good - disappointed that most critics here have not played the course!
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Tim_Weiman

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Re: Royal Montreal - World's most overrated course?
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2014, 10:24:01 PM »
Quote from: matt kardash on July 26, 2014, 11:19:02 AM
Well, seems no one has said anything in this thread to makes me change my current suspicion.

Matt,

If a Royal Montreal is first on your list of the most overrated courses, which courses finish 2nd and 3rd in your book?
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Tim Weiman
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