[RJ_Daley]

There are several excellent posts on this thread that seem to come from different directions, yet all ring true and make sense to me -even though some of the thesis appear to be at odds.  

JK and Schmidty's focus on the helicopter Moms and others observations of the amount of sedentary gaming distractions and the completely different process of how young people going into adulthood socialize seem to be big factors that make sense to me.  Youngsters simply don't have as easy or naturally conducive of a social environment to form golf FRIENDSHIPS or the need to form the kind of golf friendships that most of us oldsters on this forum take for granted.

I think avid or regular golfers play to enjoy the game with like minded FRIENDS because it is a joyful social activity.  I think it is the rare few that pursue the game to compete at a significantly high level apart from socializing.  Competition and typical betting among friends is not the same thing as playing to formally compete, and those few who can get good enough to be a competitive factor are <1-2%.  

And, I don't see this situation is going to improve.  Too many kids sheltered in the family game room, remotely playing video games, or being 'escorted' by the Mom to recreational organized to regimented extremes, or family can't afford to get their kid(s) a multiple play golf pass at an accessible venue,  and lost skills in friendship socialization where they can just go out and be fast friends playing a game they discover the joys of on their own with no prodding.

[Andy Troeger]

Matthew,
Your logic may apply to a segment of the population, but only a small one. Most of those "one-sport" athletes never even get a college scholarship and could easily take golf back up by age 18 if they wanted to. Plenty of avid golfers take up the game later in life after playing another sport as a kid. My Dad played baseball and took up golf at 25.

I don't think this comes down to one reason, even though I gave one specific one for myself. Most of my generation seems to be hammered with debt and golf just isn't a practical hobby except for those with means. To be any good at golf requires some pretty serious effort with lessons, practicing, playing, etc. The financial commitment just isn't possible for a lot of this generation, even if they like the idea of the game. It also isn't a game that can be learned by playing/practicing once every month or even every two weeks. That level of commitment separates those who are golfers from those who play golf. And those in the "play golf" category are leaving in droves.

That is the problem! Why are sporty kids forced to pick one sport when they most likely won't be a college athlete, and if you do become a college athlete, you aren't going pro? By 18, kids don't have the time or the financial support to then pick up the game.

I certainly agree its a silly way to run youth sports. And your last sentence makes me think we agree to a point--it still comes down in large part to time and financial support.

[Sven Nilsen]

She should have...


Can't imagine cycling behind you is much of a treat...do you let he lead?

I guess you don't know much about drafting, they don't call me peloton ass for nothing.  Of course my wife doesn't have a clue about aerodynamics which is why I let her lead.  She is a great athlete so all things being equal, including my superior technique and keeping a higher pressure in my tires, we are equals.  I keep telling her to pump her own tires but she won't listen.

Is "pump her own tires" a euphemism I am not aware of?

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

The helicopter parents and the "one sport athlete" are a symptom of our sports addicted culture. We need to stop living vicariously through our kids and making up for our athletic short comings.

I saw a 10 yr old kid yesterday with a shirt that said "Play me, or Trade me" from Nike. Who buys that?

[Josh Tarble]

I can't wait to read this article and probably laugh at it.

[RJ_Daley]

ttp://topgolf.com/us/chicago/pricing/

Mike, I had to Google Topp Golf to understand.  But sure enough, this looks like it combines the sort of elements thathave otherwise been barriers to youngsters dropping into the golf culture.  It has the element of  games to match the video gaming mentality; seems quite affordable by comparison to actual 18 hole golf, can be located in accessible population transportation centers  and provides a real place to socialize old fashion way... by being with friends.  

[Criss Titschinger]

I’m at the tail end of Gen X and into the beginning range of a Millennial; so I feel compelled to reply to this thread.

Random Thoughts…

* I don’t buy the argument on rules being too complicated. Gridiron Football is pretty damn complicated to the novice. Let alone explaining how to attack a Cover 2.

* I think it’s mostly about the Benjamin’s. Yes, this has always been a barrier to entry, but I think it’s more so for people my age. I was lucky to have parents who were well enough off to save money for my college so I came out of undergrad without a dime in debt. I know others aren’t so lucky, especially if they go for post-graduate degrees. Less people my age, especially in major cities, own houses, cars, etc. Heck, a lot of them are going back to live with their parents to save money (as someone mentioned earlier with the boomerang effect).

* I lived on a par 3 golf course in my youth, and hacked around it a few times. Yet, golf never appealed to me. My sports were soccer and cross country. When I had a chance to caddy at the country club down the road, as some of the other kids in my neighborhood did, I passed. It wasn’t until I was 21, on a trip to Kiawah Island with some of my friends; driving past its vast array of golf courses; having lunch at the old Ocean Course clubhouse with its spectacular view; that by the end of the week I said, “Alright, I’ll give this golf thing a try”. Looking back on it, I can’t believe I spent that much money on my first true round of golf. Despite my horrific score, I managed to have fun. Not everyone has that background and opportunity.

* I played a decent amount of golf when it was just my girlfriend (now wife) and I. Weekend 18 and 9 hole weekday golf league. The game has been very frustrating at times, and I often wondered why I even bothered, given the time and expense. I guess it was those few moments when I got my game back that kept me from not playing.

* I have plenty of friends/co-workers my age who play golf at varying levels. I've been able to coordinate schedules exactly once this year. If I’m lucky, I’ll get two more like-rounds in this year. Vacations, kids, other activities. It's been tough finding 5-6 hours for an 18 hole round, considering travel and warm-up time.

* It helps having a friend who's a Golf Digest Top 100 Clubfitter.

* My wife and I both work full-time. She every other Saturday. We have two children under the age of three. I have had to make a very conscious effort to get rounds in this year. I’m pretty much resorted to a weekly, weekday 9 hole round at 6:30AM, a monthly weekend 18, and various rounds during PTO/Vacation. That being said, golf is pretty much my only hobby. I do enjoy watching a good match of footie, but my Columbus Crew season ticket holder days are way behind me (especially given I live 2 hours away in Cincinnati).

* The time thing I only kind of buy. Now that I have (young) kids, I wonder how I spent all that free-time. I honestly don’t remember. I’m not sure what people my age and younger (without kids)  are doing in their off-time, but I’m sure there are many activities that take just as long as an 18 hole round of golf; especially a 9 hole round. For example, taking in an NFL game, with tailgate and all, takes much longer than a Sunday round of golf; even at a crowded muni on the weekend.

* My oldest daughter is almost three. I bought her a two club, plastic, Little Tikes set to play with. Even though she holds the club incorrectly and swings the wrong way, I’m doing my best to let her play the way she wants. If she asks me for help, I show her how to hold the club. She’s very proud when he hits the ball, good form or not. For now, that works for me. I need them to enjoy the game if I ever want them to play with me down the road.

...I still think there is nothing more fun than smashing a ball with a stick.

This.

[John Percival]

How many of us, when we were young, would come home from school, skip homework and go out and play for hours? The sport of that season/day. And during the summer, play all day? Most kids would at least play some sort of sport during school recess and/or lunch. And even if we weren't great (or even good) at a particular sport, we were developing some hand/eye coordination. Now think of today, and how, even after all the years, you can still toss a ball across the room to a waste basket. Or grab something quickly before it falls. You're still enjoying the benefits of those years of youthful exercise. And on a very related note, the surge in youth obesity isn't from diet. Hell, didn't we all just wolf everything? No, it's from a lack of play/movement.

If golf isn't the most demanding sport to learn, it certainly ranks high. And that is with some level of coordination. Think of how a baseball or tennis swing is comparable to a golf swing. Hey, even a hockey slap shot is a nice start.

For many younger people, that hand/eye coordination is on a video stick.
And for the record, played video golf once and shot about a 120. Guess I have the wrong type of coordination

While the article mentioned the decline in golf, it failed to compare those numbers to other sports like tennis, baseball, etc.
You would think that soccer and possibly basketball might be up, but everything else has to be down.

So the real key is getting kids out and active. And make the active fun.

[Jim Sherma]

The golf course used to be a place where a parent could drop a kid for 4 hours for some peace and quiet away from them.  Now, they hover over the kids and it's the kids that want to get away for 4 hours.   Simple as that.  It's all the parents' fault.  100%.
Drop your kid off at the range and tell 'em you'll see them in 4 hours.  AND DO IT! 

They'll fall in love with the game in droves. 

David - best post of the bunch. I started taking the game seriously in 8th grade. My parents got me a junior season pass at Bethlehem Municipal ($185 March 1st to October 31st unlimited walking) and after my dad taught me what he could, he had been a good player before I was born, he got me lessons from a great pro. My mom would drop me off at 9 or so and I'd play 18 with the retired guys. After a bite and some practice and/or a nap in the locker room I would play 9 more in the after work action with a bunch of serious hard drinking gamblers. Sometimes I would have to hit my mom up for some money if I had a bad night. I spent more time in high school with that gang than with the kids I was in school with. 30 years later I still see more of that bunch than guys I went to school with. I have little doubt that that was a much better upbringing than today's junior golf scene. Other than high school golf and 2 or 3 junior tournaments a year that and playing in the adult tournaments was my junior golf. Today's kids might end up better golfers but their education is not nearly as rounded.

[Mike Sweeney]

It seems like the Dick's article kicked out this theme:

A Game of Golf? Not for Many Millennials
Golf's Retail and Sporting Ends Scramble to Find New Strategy.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/a-game-of-golf-not-for-many-millennials-1406159228

[Will Peterson]

 Today's kids might end up better golfers but their education is not nearly as rounded.

This is so true.  When I was 14-15 I played a local upscale daily fee that would let juniors play for $25.  I would get paired with random groups nearly everyday, and got myself into a lot of games.  It would always start the same.  I would introduce myself, and one of the group would be visibly upset they were paired with a kid.  They would start talking bets, and I would ask if I could play since they needed a fourth.  When they would waiver, I would say, "my mom gave me $50 today" and that would seal the deal.  By the turn, the guy who was pissed they were paired with a kid was now pissed the kid was taking his money.  I never once lied about my handicap or ability, but you would be shocked at the amount of adults who would refuse to pay a bet.  I was paired with three different high school golfers last month at the Florida Publinx, and although they were all better players than I was and a couple of years older than I was at that time, I would doubt they would be able to handle that sort of situation.  Two of the three had parents in tow, and seemed somewhat uncomfortable playing with an adult.

If I learned one thing from golf, it is how to interact with all sorts of people.  I've never had any issue striking up a conversation with someone 2,3,4 times my age or 1/2 my age, and that is from being paired with strangers while playing golf.  I am always amazed at how many people I meet are so uncomfortable speaking with someone outside of their peer group.

[William_G]

To say something was lost is to assume it was once found. Golf never had them; they view golf as their grand pa's game and they are not impressed with acres and acres of perfect landscaping and uniform green grass, they grew up with that.

15" cups isn't going to get them either. Turn golf into part game, part hike, part exploration, and you'll get some of their attention.

Sort of what is was like before we perfected it.

and golf is not a game of perfect

rarely do you win in golf particularly if play medal play, which in itself is an entirely self defeating concept

if you play match play, like horse in BB, then you have fun, it's an adventure!

the growth of the game via the total score concept was sheer suicide yet we watch the pros play for other peoples money with that concept every week

[BCowan]

To say something was lost is to assume it was once found. Golf never had them; they view golf as their grand pa's game and they are not impressed with acres and acres of perfect landscaping and uniform green grass, they grew up with that.

15" cups isn't going to get them either. Turn golf into part game, part hike, part exploration, and you'll get some of their attention.

Sort of what is was like before we perfected it.

and golf is not a game of perfect

rarely do you win in golf particularly if play medal play, which in itself is an entirely self defeating concept

if you play match play, like horse in BB, then you have fun, it's an adventure!

the growth of the game via the total score concept was sheer suicide yet we watch the pros play for other peoples money with that concept every week

  I totally disagree with that statement.  It is ''Medal play'' is so uncool.  Golf experiences growth from time to time regardless of what form you are playing.  Most people I have known like to try and shoot less from round to round, and love challenging themselves to do better than their prior personal best.  They are playing the golf course.  A walk in the park, yet they are competing.  golf is inner in a way. 

[Tim Gavrich]

In general, I do think there are probably too many golf courses around, and that they're causing the corps of golfers to be spread so thin that it looks like the game is suffering when it's really just a bit off its equilibrium. The apparent lower zest for golf among my generation (I'll be 25 this October) and the fact that mine is the first generation that will be broadly worse off financially than the previous generation cannot be mere coincidence.

As Millennials come up in the world and start to take on discretionary income, my guess is that they'll start taking to golf a little later in life. The proliferation of new technology and media has made it the case that people have broader general familiarity with the game. I have to think that will mean people will convert into golfers over time. Its just not going to happen overnight via one of these inane gimmicks like foot-golf or 15-inch cups. And that's fine.

Also, as technology and all that noise continue to ratchet up, there's going to be some desire for the type of peace that golf provides. The most important thing is that golf is going to need to become cheaper, and once the scarcity of water makes it more crucial that golf courses conserve, that should begin to happen. Mark King and his ilk want golf to get more popular because it will make them richer. The truth is, we may need to make them less rich (sorry fellas) if we want golf to take on any significant number of new, permanent players.

[Matthew Petersen]

Matthew,
Your logic may apply to a segment of the population, but only a small one. Most of those "one-sport" athletes never even get a college scholarship and could easily take golf back up by age 18 if they wanted to. Plenty of avid golfers take up the game later in life after playing another sport as a kid. My Dad played baseball and took up golf at 25.

I don't think this comes down to one reason, even though I gave one specific one for myself. Most of my generation seems to be hammered with debt and golf just isn't a practical hobby except for those with means. To be any good at golf requires some pretty serious effort with lessons, practicing, playing, etc. The financial commitment just isn't possible for a lot of this generation, even if they like the idea of the game. It also isn't a game that can be learned by playing/practicing once every month or even every two weeks. That level of commitment separates those who are golfers from those who play golf. And those in the "play golf" category are leaving in droves.

That is the problem! Why are sporty kids forced to pick one sport when they most likely won't be a college athlete, and if you do become a college athlete, you aren't going pro? By 18, kids don't have the time or the financial support to then pick up the game.

I think there's a lot to this. The barriers to picking up the game as a young adult or later on are significant. Kids aren't really being kept away from the game because of dress codes or rules or even that it's hard. But I do think those things create a barrier for the 20-something set who might have played a few times as a kid, maybe gets invited out by friends or co-workers, and just finds it too much hassle. Not only is it hard to learn to play the game, as someone else mentioned, it's hard to learn all of there basic etiquette and how to of golf.

[Paul Gray]

Without wishing to dismiss the notion that golf is suffering, and certainly things like Topgolf and Urbangolf are addressing some of those issues, the problem is more one of supply outstripping demand than anything else. Build golf courses in a boom period, courses which have high maintenance costs and therefore require high membership numbers just to break even, and it's only inevitable that many will be forced to close when times are harder.

Economic fluctuations are nothing new, but every village course in Scotland can survive the down times as they only need one man and his dog to turn up in order to break even, making them somewhat recession proof. That's simply not going to happen when your members judge quality by how much money you can throw at preparing a lawn.

[Dave Doxey]

ttp://topgolf.com/us/chicago/pricing/

Mike, I had to Google Topp Golf to understand.  But sure enough, this looks like it combines the sort of elements thathave otherwise been barriers to youngsters dropping into the golf culture.  It has the element of  games to match the video gaming mentality; seems quite affordable by comparison to actual 18 hole golf, can be located in accessible population transportation centers  and provides a real place to socialize old fashion way... by being with friends.  

Yes, but is 'Top Golf' really golf?

[Brent Hutto]

ttp://topgolf.com/us/chicago/pricing/

Mike, I had to Google Topp Golf to understand.  But sure enough, this looks like it combines the sort of elements thathave otherwise been barriers to youngsters dropping into the golf culture.  It has the element of  games to match the video gaming mentality; seems quite affordable by comparison to actual 18 hole golf, can be located in accessible population transportation centers  and provides a real place to socialize old fashion way... by being with friends.  

Yes, but is 'Top Golf' really golf?

I'm tempted to answer "Yes, in the same way that 'Frisbee Golf' is golf".

But it's really just a different point on the same continuum that includes all those guys who go to the driving range twice a week and pound balls but only play 10-15 rounds a year with many of those being nine holes. For some people, it's all about hitting a ball with a stick and after a while the golf course isn't strictly necessary.

[Mike Hendren]

Perhaps a better title is "Why the Millenials abandoned golf."

I'm convinced the millenials are causing a huge cultural and economic shift in this country, not as victims but by design.  A re-balancing of priorities if you will.

Bogey

[Mike_Young]

ttp://topgolf.com/us/chicago/pricing/

Mike, I had to Google Topp Golf to understand.  But sure enough, this looks like it combines the sort of elements thathave otherwise been barriers to youngsters dropping into the golf culture.  It has the element of  games to match the video gaming mentality; seems quite affordable by comparison to actual 18 hole golf, can be located in accessible population transportation centers  and provides a real place to socialize old fashion way... by being with friends.  

Yes, but is 'Top Golf' really golf?

Of course Topgolf is not really golf.  That doesn't matter.  Is softball really baseball?  The object IMHO is to get people wanting to play golf and topgolf is one way....JMO

[Brad Tufts]

Although I agree about pace being too slow, I find it ironic that golf takes too long for Millennials, but from my experience, most of the slowest players I run into are Millennials.

I've never bought into the theory that golf takes too long for Millennials and thus, is keeping them away. Yes, it takes too long, but that's more a problem for people in the prime of their careers who are juggling family and demanding job obligations. The writers of some of these stories make it sound as if Millennials can only spare 2.5 hours for golf because they've reserved the other 2.5 for texting and playing angry birds. That's BS.

Another thing to consider is that more and more of the younger generations are moving back to the big cities, where there is no such thing as a quick 4 hours door-to-door or a weeknight 9-holes. For me, in NYC, it can be a 9 hour process for one round. And that's something I can't do anything about, and something I definitely don't always have time for.

I very much agree with all of this.  As a "Millenial" myself (born in 1981), pretty much nobody around my age has "left golf"...I would call it more of "golfer on pause."  I have always tried to make a balance with work/life/wife/kid(shes 2)/golf...with some failures and some successes, as my wife would be sure to mention.  I still have golfer friends who have chosen big cities, intense jobs, working internationally in non-golf areas, or having 3 kids in 5 years, etc. but plan to play a ton when pressures ease.

Like anything, if we value the golf experience, we will try to make it happen.  If we value other things more, golf takes a back-burner.

I also think its the next generation after the Millenials that is to worry about golfwise...those are the people for whom technology might REALLY change their lives.  I see many people around my age already pulling back from the facebook/online games/texting constantly way of life and looking more for actual life connections.

[Josh Tarble]

This guy clearly isn't a) a Millennial or b) a golfer

The only applicable section is the expense.  I absolutely love golf and even I know golf is too expensive.  That is the main barrier to entry and means a lot of millennials never even started.  It separates it into the haves and the have nots.  There is no "middle-class" of golfer anymore, it's either the die-hard that plays 50+ rounds or the guy that plays in the corporate outing once a year and that means everyone from the 55+ year old that was playing 20 rounds a year to the 20-something just out of school.  




I will also say this...a lot of people I know, both golfers and non-golfers alike, are "label-conscious" meaning they want the best stuff, whether  that's the new Taylormade SLDR+PROTOTYPE (R)ED EDITION or a new Hugo Boss jacket from Nordstrom. Top quality stuff is always expensive and golf just happens to be even more so. No one is picking up golden bear 1.0s from Wal-Mart to play anymore.

The same goes for courses...no one wants to go play a shit-hole dump of a course for $20 bucks when they could pay $50 for a much nicer course.  But that means half as many rounds.  So it equates to a $700 set up clubs and $50 each time out.  


I'm not saying this is all people or every golfer, but I think it holds true for a good majority.  I think a lot of golf's issues can be blamed on society's problem in always wanting the best - and part is golf's problem of always charging the maximum for the best.

[Josh Tarble]

Also, how much of this is Dick's PR squad trying to blame golfers on them laying of their Pros?

I just find it quite coincidental timing that about 5 of these articles and the HBO study coming out the same week of that announcement.

[Chris Wagner]

I fall right in the millennial age range. It is too expensive bottom line.  I don't see the price point changing and so golf will continue to lose.

[Mike_Young]

Golf is like any other business.  If I were to build 5 grocery stores in an area that only needed one then there would be a problem even though all of us buy groceries.  Some of the best opportunities ever for getting into a golf course are now.  There is a lot of BS floating abouthow bad a business golf is.  I look at it like this.  The population will continue to grow and not many more courses will be built for a long time.  If the percentage of people playing drops and yet the population of an area increases then the courses serving that area will be capable of being profitable.  Note I say "capable".  The clubhouse is more of a problem than the course inmost cases and they have to go....I think back and realize that I did not play much golf from 20-30 years of age and I think that is a common factor we never address.  There is a lot of posturing going on out there right now.....

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