How Golf Lost the Millennials

[Joe Sponcia]

I just got back from a week of golf at Hilton Head with my wife.  .  The place we stayed was beautiful, the courses were beautiful, the food was great, but  have little interest in ever going back, at least to play golf.   Most of the rounds we played was not golf, it was some aberration.  Sit and wait, sit and wait.

We had several rounds that were well over 5 hours and many that were over 4 1/2.   One morning we were with a couple that had not played in seven years, the timeshare they stayed comped them the round so they said why not.   Another round, I was paired with a decent player, but his brother in law never played.  Another round, a father was teaching his son while we were playing.  The kid had no idea of basic etiquette or rules, he had no idea what clubs to use, and he dug up the fairways.   For two rounds, our partners disappeared at the turn, taking forever to get nourishments.  We also had a round where we were paired up with a couple and the lady would take 3 practice swings, go away from the ball, and then do 3 more, and then freeze over the ball and finally hit, the cycle took two minutes each time.   This simply is not fun, it is nerve wracking.  I consider myself very patient and understanding, but after a while it just becomes too much.  Every day it was extremely hot and humid, when I am moving it is barley noticeable, but when you are sitting and sitting and waiting and waiting, , it gets very uncomfortable.

Eric:

You seem to be saying that golf would be tolerable if everyone who wasn't as good as you would just quit the game.  No wonder beginners feel intimidated!

Your post struck a nerve because my first exposure to golf [other than trips to the driving range] was playing with my family on a vacation to Hilton Head.  I'd guess we probably held up somebody, too, but in 1970 they didn't have an internet discussion board to complain about it, the poor people.

Tom,

I think what Eric was trying to say was...when he learned to play, he went to a driving range first, he let more proficient players play through, and rangers actually had the cojones to tell people hitting worm burners to pick it up or let others go ahead.  Playing a 5 hour round of 120 yard ground balls, totally oblivious to those around you, rarely hooks newbies.  

[BCowan]

The rake and runners are driving me from the game. Yesterday my foresome teed off at 8:10 and were followed by a twosome whose tee time was 8:20. At 8:19 we had to step back from our putts to let them play through on the first green. They simply play for exercise.

The time before that I played a twosome decided to start on 10 and began their day with hands on hips giving us the evil eye. I waved them on and it took each of them three strokes to reach our drives. By the time we could hit our approach there were two more groups on the tee.

I understand that playing on one of the most difficult courses in the world while putting everything out is no longer allowed in this culture of run and rake. The only defense I have left is the Joshua theorem. I'm done until the fair weather non golfers put their clubs up for winter.

Exactly what golf needs, more people like me quitting who enjoy spending seven to eight hours a day at the club.

What was your pro doing letting a twosome out at 8:20am on a Sat morning?  Twosome are suppose to have no standing, especially during prime tee times.  Letting a 2some go off on a weekend morning seems like lunacy. 

[John Kavanaugh]

The guy is a heart surgeon who gets off rounds and comes out to play. I am the one at fault because my foresome will take more than four hours, guaranteed. This guy didn't create the rake and run culture, he just likes to stay fit while golfing a ball.

[Eric Strulowitz]

I just got back from a week of golf at Hilton Head with my wife.  .  The place we stayed was beautiful, the courses were beautiful, the food was great, but  have little interest in ever going back, at least to play golf.   Most of the rounds we played was not golf, it was some aberration.  Sit and wait, sit and wait.

We had several rounds that were well over 5 hours and many that were over 4 1/2.   One morning we were with a couple that had not played in seven years, the timeshare they stayed comped them the round so they said why not.   Another round, I was paired with a decent player, but his brother in law never played.  Another round, a father was teaching his son while we were playing.  The kid had no idea of basic etiquette or rules, he had no idea what clubs to use, and he dug up the fairways.   For two rounds, our partners disappeared at the turn, taking forever to get nourishments.  We also had a round where we were paired up with a couple and the lady would take 3 practice swings, go away from the ball, and then do 3 more, and then freeze over the ball and finally hit, the cycle took two minutes each time.   This simply is not fun, it is nerve wracking.  I consider myself very patient and understanding, but after a while it just becomes too much.  Every day it was extremely hot and humid, when I am moving it is barley noticeable, but when you are sitting and sitting and waiting and waiting, , it gets very uncomfortable.

Eric:

You seem to be saying that golf would be tolerable if everyone who wasn't as good as you would just quit the game.  No wonder beginners feel intimidated!

Your post struck a nerve because my first exposure to golf [other than trips to the driving range] was playing with my family on a vacation to Hilton Head.  I'd guess we probably held up somebody, too, but in 1970 they didn't have an internet discussion board to complain about it, the poor people.

I am sorry my post struck a nerve,  boo hoo hoo and where did I say the game would  be tolerable if everyone who wasn't as good as me would just quit the game.   Where have I ever said I am "good" anyway, I am but a humble 18 hcp but I know consideration and respect for others, the golf course is a community, and I do my best to respect the playing field and  I feel no shame in picking up when I have to if I am holding others up, because it is not about me.     Read the post again please, because your interpretation is incredibly off the wall.  Are you having a bad day or something?


First, I mentioned a father teaching his son the game.  That is great.  But is a  championship length course with water and sand everywhere  is not the the place to do it, and with a 9am tee time, which is peak time.  How about that father going to one of the executive courses in the area, there is a great one in nearby Okatie, or if he feels compelled to do a championship length course, how about later in the day or when the tee time was made, asking the office when a good time for a newbie to go out.

Secondly, I talked about another player taking endless practice swings.  Does that make any sense and is that fair to the rest of the foursome or to those playing behind.

Third,  I talked about taking long breaks at the turn to get sandwiches, drinks, whatever.  How is that considerate to those who do not need to take long breaks, and how is that considerate to the group behind that does not want to take a break and now has a potentially long wait when they were moving before.

Forth, we had a few rounds that were well over 5 hours.  Is that acceptable under any circumstances, especially for a casual game?  Is this conducive for players to want to return to that venue or to the game at all if they are on the fence?

It comes down to consideration of others and one of the reason people are leaving the game is because of slow play.  It you sit at each tee box for 5 minutes, that is 90 minutes of doing nothing.  If you wait for each shot for another 2 minutes, that is 36 minutes of doing nothing.  That is two hours of wasted time.  And then we add stops for the beverage cart and incessant texts and phone calls by some, and people taking seemingly forever to line up their putts,  and you begin to wonder have we all gone crazy and why am I even out there.  The issue then becomes is this a good return on investment time wise, when there are so many other things you could be doing for leisure and entertainment , and that is why people are leaving the game.

[Eric Strulowitz]

I just got back from a week of golf at Hilton Head with my wife.  .  The place we stayed was beautiful, the courses were beautiful, the food was great, but  have little interest in ever going back, at least to play golf.   Most of the rounds we played was not golf, it was some aberration.  Sit and wait, sit and wait.

We had several rounds that were well over 5 hours and many that were over 4 1/2.   One morning we were with a couple that had not played in seven years, the timeshare they stayed comped them the round so they said why not.   Another round, I was paired with a decent player, but his brother in law never played.  Another round, a father was teaching his son while we were playing.  The kid had no idea of basic etiquette or rules, he had no idea what clubs to use, and he dug up the fairways.   For two rounds, our partners disappeared at the turn, taking forever to get nourishments.  We also had a round where we were paired up with a couple and the lady would take 3 practice swings, go away from the ball, and then do 3 more, and then freeze over the ball and finally hit, the cycle took two minutes each time.   This simply is not fun, it is nerve wracking.  I consider myself very patient and understanding, but after a while it just becomes too much.  Every day it was extremely hot and humid, when I am moving it is barley noticeable, but when you are sitting and sitting and waiting and waiting, , it gets very uncomfortable.

Eric:

You seem to be saying that golf would be tolerable if everyone who wasn't as good as you would just quit the game.  No wonder beginners feel intimidated!

Your post struck a nerve because my first exposure to golf [other than trips to the driving range] was playing with my family on a vacation to Hilton Head.  I'd guess we probably held up somebody, too, but in 1970 they didn't have an internet discussion board to complain about it, the poor people.

Tom,

I think what Eric was trying to say was...when he learned to play, he went to a driving range first, he let more proficient players play through, and rangers actually had the cojones to tell people hitting worm burners to pick it up or let others go ahead.  Playing a 5 hour round of 120 yard ground balls, totally oblivious to those around you, rarely hooks newbies.  

Joe,

I have been playing golf since my early  teens, and was taught proper etiquette very early.  My dad would take me to a really run down 9 hole course, it was the most basic of golf, and we went from there.  He had no problem telling me to move faster or pickup if I was holding up others.  I played that course for several years, it was a big thrill when I stepped up to 18 holes.  To start someone on a championship level course in Hilton Head during a peak time of 9am is not conducive to learning the game, and not fair to anyone else.  It is just plain stupid and inconsiderate.

And I remember rangers that indeed had cojones and told you to speed it up or even pick up and go to the next hole.  There is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is done in a civil manner.  But everything today is about correctness and God forbid  not hurting someones feelings.  This is just not with golf, but with everything today.  Nothing gets better when you talk around problems or ignore them.   Golf courses are closing all over, many of the clubs where I live are heavily discounting,  golf stores are closing.  The days of build it or sell it and they will come are over.  The industry does not get it. 

[Tom_Doak]

One morning we were with a couple that had not played in seven years, the timeshare they stayed comped them the round so they said why not.   Another round, I was paired with a decent player, but his brother in law never played.  Another round, a father was teaching his son while we were playing.  The kid had no idea of basic etiquette or rules, he had no idea what clubs to use, and he dug up the fairways.   For two rounds, our partners disappeared at the turn, taking forever to get nourishments. 

Eric:

Actually, I'm having a good day.  It was the above parts of your post that I commented on.  There were three straight types of player who bothered you:  a couple, a brother in law, and a father teaching his son.  Maybe that was not representative of your whole post, or your worldview, but it came across to me as not being tolerant of beginners.

Golf needs beginners, and we need them to have a good time.  If they feel like they are pissing off the other golfers, they will go home and never play again.  [That's why all those golf stores are closing.]  My wife seldom goes along to play golf with me, for just that reason, and that's why I don't play as much golf as I used to.  When we do play, we'll play alternate shots, and we don't hold up anybody for very long ... but occasionally we will play somewhere that guys race up behind us in their cart and then are pissed off about waiting on us, even when we are playing at a very reasonable pace.

You are right that there are too many "championship courses" in resort areas, and not enough that are playable and fun.  You are right that people take too many practice swings, and generally aren't in any hurry to play.  Many people would be happier playing nine holes instead of 18, and the only reason they don't think of it is because the golf courses want to sell them the full green fee.

[Pat Burke]

It seems like the Dick's article kicked out this theme:

A Game of Golf? Not for Many Millennials
Golf's Retail and Sporting Ends Scramble to Find New Strategy.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/a-game-of-golf-not-for-many-millennials-1406159228

That picture/graph is pretty funny.  Yoga?  Jogging?  What this points to is what all of us over 40 already know...kids don't want or feel the need to compete.  They are now choosing things that don't involve failing.  When I was a kid, we pitched, now coaches do it.  Tee ball?  That was for 5 year olds.  Soccer?  That was for kids that didn't have the coordination to play the main-line sports.  And yes, in the late 70's-early 80's golf was a 'sissy' sport.  I didn't learn until my college baseball career ceased at 19 years old.  

Now golf is 'cool', but kids don't play?  The last few issues of golf digest trying to pander with stories of weed and lifestyle articles is even more of a stretch.

Kids today have 2k MacBooks, iPhones with $120 bills, triple the school debt.  They wouldn't be caught dead in a used car like I drove around in for 10 years.  They also won't live in a house the size my grandparents lived in.  They buy $3 cups of coffee, $5 snob beer.  They eat out every meal.

My first set of clubs came from Wal-mart.  They were Dunlops.  If ebay existed back then, I could have bought the equivalent of a set of Callaway x-16's or Taylor Made r7's for about the same money.  Golfnow was called walking.  Golf courses rarely discounted their rounds.  

The kids that focus on one sport at my club (golf) are gentlemen and a breath of fresh air.  They play EVERY DAY in the summer.  Several work as cart boys or on the Green crew.  They call me Mr. and they love the game.  This is the core group coming up that closely resembles what many have already spoke of (positively)...not these flat-billed, 25-35's that don't attempt to understand the rules, dress like clowns, eat wraps for lunch and play no competitive events.  

We don't need to conform to them, but clubs do and have already...and most have huge churn.  

Great Joe.
Now the PGA will come out with their new slogan.

Golf....at least we're not bowling!"

[Eric Smith]

Likely Port Royal, Sea Pines Resort or Palmetto Dunes Resort. These places are family resorts and will always cater to all golfers, beginners or otherwise. Live with it or stay home.

[Eric Strulowitz]

One morning we were with a couple that had not played in seven years, the timeshare they stayed comped them the round so they said why not.   Another round, I was paired with a decent player, but his brother in law never played.  Another round, a father was teaching his son while we were playing.  The kid had no idea of basic etiquette or rules, he had no idea what clubs to use, and he dug up the fairways.   For two rounds, our partners disappeared at the turn, taking forever to get nourishments. 

Eric:

Actually, I'm having a good day.  It was the above parts of your post that I commented on.  There were three straight types of player who bothered you:  a couple, a brother in law, and a father teaching his son.  Maybe that was not representative of your whole post, or your worldview, but it came across to me as not being tolerant of beginners.

Golf needs beginners, and we need them to have a good time.  If they feel like they are pissing off the other golfers, they will go home and never play again.  [That's why all those golf stores are closing.]  My wife seldom goes along to play golf with me, for just that reason, and that's why I don't play as much golf as I used to.  When we do play, we'll play alternate shots, and we don't hold up anybody for very long ... but occasionally we will play somewhere that guys race up behind us in their cart and then are pissed off about waiting on us, even when we are playing at a very reasonable pace.

You are right that there are too many "championship courses" in resort areas, and not enough that are playable and fun.  You are right that people take too many practice swings, and generally aren't in any hurry to play.  Many people would be happier playing nine holes instead of 18, and the only reason they don't think of it is because the golf courses want to sell them the full green fee.

Tom

I want you to read the original post again.   No where was I expressing intolerance for beginners.   

I was just relating my experience with slow play.   And why people are leaving the game. 

I am all for beginners and people learning the game, and while I am not a great golfer, I have introduced a few to the game.  I know many who can't break 110, but can get done in 4 hours.  It is not whether you are a novice or journeyman,  it all comes down to consideration of others.  Making good judgements is also important. A 9am tee time on a course full of water, sand, and forced carries is not a good time to be teaching your child.   

Enough said on this, if you still don't comprehend what I was trying to relate so be it.   

[Joe Sponcia]

Eric S,

I don't think Strulowitz is asking that they tee off after 3 pm, but I have had the same thought playing in Myrtle on multiple trips for years. 

Courses don't have the guts to say, "Mr. So and So, we really appreciate you choosing to play Water Hazard National, in the interest of all of our guests, we ask you to get around the course in 4:10.  You may see some of our course assistants from time to time...if they see that another group is holding you up or vice versa, they may ask you to pick up the pace.  We hope you enjoy...blah blah blah...". 

...and back on topic, tennis isn't lowering nets.  Basketball leagues aren't lowering the goals or making hoops bigger.  Baseball isn't trying to pull more kids in by making aluminum versions of Fat Albert bats.  I realize golf is a business for many and participation matters, but rarely have I seen where we lower the bar and keep a small group that wants the rest of the established members to cater to them.

Lots of courses need to close before the game will take its core golfer serious again.  In politics, they say the best way to win elections isn't trying to get the undecided's converted, it is playing to your base. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Courses don't have the guts to say, "Mr. So and So, we really appreciate you choosing to play Water Hazard National, in the interest of all of our guests, we ask you to get around the course in 4:10.  You may see some of our course assistants from time to time...if they see that another group is holding you up or vice versa, they may ask you to pick up the pace.  We hope you enjoy...blah blah blah...". 

Sooner or later, some courses in competitive markets/resort areas will ask a simple question:

What pace of play do you prefer?

• our 3:30 pace players tees off at 7-9 for $100
• our 4:00 pace tees off at 9-11, for $75
• our 4:30 pace tees off at noon for $65

If that does not fit, we can accommodate your group at our sister course here at Hilton Head National on the Atlantic Ocean!

Parking garages, hotels, plane seats all trade according to a variety of demand factors. My guess is that some some courses in the middle will make the adjustment. Golf is THE most inefficient hard asset based industry that I can think of.

[John Kavanaugh]

Eric S,

I don't think Strulowitz is asking that they tee off after 3 pm, but I have had the same thought playing in Myrtle on multiple trips for years. 

Courses don't have the guts to say, "Mr. So and So, we really appreciate you choosing to play Water Hazard National, in the interest of all of our guests, we ask you to get around the course in 4:10.  You may see some of our course assistants from time to time...if they see that another group is holding you up or vice versa, they may ask you to pick up the pace.  We hope you enjoy...blah blah blah...". 

...and back on topic, tennis isn't lowering nets.  Basketball leagues aren't lowering the goals or making hoops bigger.  Baseball isn't trying to pull more kids in by making aluminum versions of Fat Albert bats.  I realize golf is a business for many and participation matters, but rarely have I seen where we lower the bar and keep a small group that wants the rest of the established members to cater to them.

Lots of courses need to close before the game will take its core golfer serious again.  In politics, they say the best way to win elections isn't trying to get the undecided's converted, it is playing to your base. 

That would work if you also did not allow anyone to play in less than 4 hours.  Anyone playing at a pace of 4:10 is going to be run up upon by rake and runners who quickly let you know the burden that you are to their lives. I was on a three hour pace when we let the twosome through yesterday while on one green. The genie is out of the bottle. Golf is now a game of angry men.

When was the last time someone on this site boasted of a great round where they didn't also include pace of play. I don't have time for this crap.

[Mike Sweeney]

When was the last time someone on this site boasted of a great round where they didn't also include pace of play. I don't have time for this crap.

August 3, 2014, and I complemented the Super too

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46112.25.html

[Mike_Young]

After a week of discussion with my aged golfing cohorts we have come to the conclusion that golf has not lost the millenials anymore than they lost the hippies.  We all agreed we rarely played in our 20's.   

[Joe Sponcia]

Courses don't have the guts to say, "Mr. So and So, we really appreciate you choosing to play Water Hazard National, in the interest of all of our guests, we ask you to get around the course in 4:10.  You may see some of our course assistants from time to time...if they see that another group is holding you up or vice versa, they may ask you to pick up the pace.  We hope you enjoy...blah blah blah...". 

Sooner or later, some courses in competitive markets/resort areas will ask a simple question:

What pace of play do you prefer?

• our 3:30 pace players tees off at 7-9 for $100
• our 4:00 pace tees off at 9-11, for $75
• our 4:30 pace tees off at noon for $65

If that does not fit, we can accommodate your group at our sister course here at Hilton Head National on the Atlantic Ocean!

Parking garages, hotels, plane seats all trade according to a variety of demand factors. My guess is that some some courses in the middle will make the adjustment. Golf is THE most inefficient hard asset based industry that I can think of.

Mike,

I love that...and I'm not the fastest player in the world!

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,

Small problem, faster players should pay less not more.

Nice write up on your cheap, walkable with a trolley course, btw.

[Paul Gray]

Tom,

A little harsh regarding Eric. I suspect you're actually both on the same page.

John,

I have no idea how many times I've mentioned this but take as long as you like for your round. All anyone can reasonably ask is that you call through EACH AND EVERY group that you would otherwise inconvenience. Let them play at their pace and you can play at yours. It worked for years without any problems until the western world decided to abandon collective responsibility.
 

[John Kavanaugh]

Golf courses need speed limits. Yesterday I let through a twosome on the first hole while we were on the green 9 minutes after our tee time. I had no choice, they had just hit to within 20 yds of the green and were running at us. Last year I let through a twosome on the 14th tee that had already gone through 7 other groups. They didn't even bother to putt on the preceding hole just so they could catch us on the tee. I do not go to golf to gallery people who can not find playing partners nor have the time to enjoy a game with the friends they do have. 

I do not understand why purposely tailgating a group in front of you is not considered rude.

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike,

Small problem, faster players should pay less not more.

John,

This is like a scene from Moneyball, and you are the old scout talking about ugly girlfriends.



Faster players should pay what the market demands. In my view of the world, golf needs a huge shift in mentality. The industry is selling memberships and tee times when it should be selling access to golf styles and experiences.

Want to get around in 3 hours at Yale? Okay there is no way a foursome can get around Yale in 3 hours. Thus you sell threesomes for access to the first tee from 7-9 am for $600. Foursomes from 9-11 that play in 4 hours at $500, and the rest of the day is $100 per person.

This is the GolfNow model. Now you bitch and moan about the GolfNow model, but the only problem is the clubs are letting an outside entity determine their model.

If I was the manager at your private club, I would set up a points system. If the twosome chooses to tee off as a twosome after foursomes have started, they have to pay a premium to play through and disturb groups such as yours. Maybe it is $$ fees, maybe it is $$ contributions to the local kids program or a charity the club supports. Can be varied according to the culture of the club.

PS - Just for the record, I had some hot girlfriends before my wife, and I am often told that I married up 

[jeffwarne]

Golf courses need speed limits. Yesterday I let through a twosome on the first hole while we were on the green 9 minutes after our tee time. I had no choice, they had just hit to within 20 yds of the green and were running at us. Last year I let through a twosome on the 14th tee that had already gone through 7 other groups. They didn't even bother to putt on the preceding hole just so they could catch us on the tee. I do not go to golf to gallery people who can not find playing partners nor have the time to enjoy a game with the friends they do have. 

I do not understand why purposely tailgating a group in front of you is not considered rude.

It is one of the real problems in golf.
a foursome playing at a three forty five pace can have their day ruined by allowing 7 two balls thru, each adding 2-5 minutes to the fourball's round-each play thru delay leaving them suceptible to the next following speed group.
A group playing on a relatively full course has to as John says, follow a speed limit,play early or during less crowded times, or at least use good judgement about who and when to play through.-good management should control this.

Mike if  a group with no friends playing a two ball (at a busy four ball time) pays a premium and disturbs my fourball and others, how does them paying more money not piss me off?
 

[Paul Gray]

I have no problem with waiting in a traffic jam. Traffic is traffic. Equally, there is zero chance of me ever sitting on the tail of a learner driver. I do however have a problem when I find myself sitting behind someone going slowly in the outside lane on a motorway whilst not allowing me to pass. And so it applies to golf.

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike if  a group with no friends playing a two ball (at a busy four ball time) pays a premium and disturbs my fourball and others, how does them paying more money not piss me off?
 

Easy, at a course like The Vineyard Club which supports multiple charities on the island, the group that is disturbed could designate the premium to their favorite charity:

http://www.vineyardgolf.com/past-recipients

Turn it into a positive event rather than a negative. Have a dinner towards the end of the year where the disturbers and disturbees come together with the charities and have a fun night.

It creates an environment where people talk it out rather than bottle it up inside like Jaka 

[Sean_A]

Golf courses need speed limits. Yesterday I let through a twosome on the first hole while we were on the green 9 minutes after our tee time. I had no choice, they had just hit to within 20 yds of the green and were running at us. Last year I let through a twosome on the 14th tee that had already gone through 7 other groups. They didn't even bother to putt on the preceding hole just so they could catch us on the tee. I do not go to golf to gallery people who can not find playing partners nor have the time to enjoy a game with the friends they do have. 

I do not understand why purposely tailgating a group in front of you is not considered rude.

It is one of the real problems in golf.
a foursome playing at a three forty five pace can have their day ruined by allowing 7 two balls thru, each adding 2-5 minutes to the fourball's round-each play thru delay leaving them suceptible to the next following speed group.
A group playing on a relatively full course has to as John says, follow a speed limit,play early or during less crowded times, or at least use good judgement about who and when to play through.-good management should control this.

Mike if  a group with no friends playing a two ball (at a busy four ball time) pays a premium and disturbs my fourball and others, how does them paying more money not piss me off?
 

Jeff

The problem with your scenario is its always 4ball time.  I think the only real solution for private clubs who have members not willing to recognize the habits of the membership is to create 2 ball times.  Say 7-9 is 2ball time.  You want four guys out then, play 4somes.  Same for right after lunch, 12:30-1:00, 2ball time. If 4balls are allowed out at all times, when do 2balls get a slot?  I also think its always a great idea for tee time clubs to leave one time open per hour for walk ups.  

Ciao

[Mike Sweeney]

Jeff

The problem with your scenario is its always 4ball time.  I think the only real solution for private clubs who have members not willing to recognize the habits of the membership is to create 2 ball times.  Say 7-9 is 2ball time.  You want four guys out then, play 4somes.  Same for right after lunch, 12:30-1:00, 2ball time. If 4balls are allowed out at all times, when do 2balls get a slot?  I also think its always a great idea for tee time clubs to leave one time open per hour for walk ups.  

Ciao

At Mountain Lake, it is 2ball for the first hour or two in the winter so that people can get 36 in during winter light. Afternoon round is 4 ball, and it is lighter play, so 2balls are typically fine in the afternoon.

[jeffwarne]

Golf courses need speed limits. Yesterday I let through a twosome on the first hole while we were on the green 9 minutes after our tee time. I had no choice, they had just hit to within 20 yds of the green and were running at us. Last year I let through a twosome on the 14th tee that had already gone through 7 other groups. They didn't even bother to putt on the preceding hole just so they could catch us on the tee. I do not go to golf to gallery people who can not find playing partners nor have the time to enjoy a game with the friends they do have. 

I do not understand why purposely tailgating a group in front of you is not considered rude.

It is one of the real problems in golf.
a foursome playing at a three forty five pace can have their day ruined by allowing 7 two balls thru, each adding 2-5 minutes to the fourball's round-each play thru delay leaving them suceptible to the next following speed group.
A group playing on a relatively full course has to as John says, follow a speed limit,play early or during less crowded times, or at least use good judgement about who and when to play through.-good management should control this.

Mike if  a group with no friends playing a two ball (at a busy four ball time) pays a premium and disturbs my fourball and others, how does them paying more money not piss me off?
 

Jeff

The problem with your scenario is its always 4ball time.  I think the only real solution for private clubs who have members not willing to recognize the habits of the membership is to create 2 ball times.  Say 7-9 is 2ball time.  You want four guys out then, play 4somes.  Same for right after lunch, 12:30-1:00, 2ball time. If 4balls are allowed out at all times, when do 2balls get a slot?  I also think its always a great idea for tee time clubs to leave one time open per hour for walk ups.  

Ciao

absolutely-we manage it-and provide multiple options for 2 ball play-including a 2 ball speed slot in the morning
many other clubs don't-