Will we ever see another raw Open?

[David_Tepper]

Rich -

1) There has not been much "Sunday back-nine drama" on any of the 3 majors so far this year. Hoylake was no different in that regard.

2) The course was saturated with rain Saturday afternoon. Clearly that is the reason the course played so soft on Sunday.  

DT

[Greg Clark]

Whether soft or firm, the thing the last two Opens at Hoylake had in common was that the wind didn't blow.  That lead to low scores in each case. I will say I can't ever remember an Open championship where the players appeared to have so little trouble getting out of the bunkers.  The weather, and to a lesser degree the set up, left me feeling a bit cheated this week.

[Rich Goodale]

Rich -
2) The course was saturated with rain Saturday afternoon. Clearly that is the reason the course played so soft on Sunday.  
DT

David, you should know better than most people that one day of rain on a proper and properly maintained links course will not make it play soft the next day.  Hoylake was soft and slow for all 4 days, and as JK said above, that was a bummer.

[David_Tepper]

Rich -

1) The super at Hoylake this year was the same guy as in 2006. Do you think he was instructed to present a greener, softer course this year? If so, who would have given him those instructions?

2) I am guessing that some links courses drain (much) better than others. Given how flat the Hoylake property is, it likely drains worse than many. Also note the many homes close to the sea at Hoylake. Isn't that possibly a sign that the soil there is much less "linksy" than what you might find at Ballybunion, Dornoch, Royal St. Georges, etc.?     

DT 

[Thomas Dai]

Time of year is relevant. Once upon a time The Open was played at various other times of the year, and playing it in July, as has been done for a long time now, is playing it in one of the least windy months of the UK year. Different time of year, different - tougher? - playing conditions, but being links, still on good quality rolling greens.
Atb

[Rich Goodale]

Rich -

1) The super at Hoylake this year was the same guy as in 2006. Do you think he was instructed to present a greener, softer course this year? If so, who would have given him those instructions?

2) I am guessing that some links courses drain (much) better than others. Given how flat the Hoylake property is, it likely drains worse than many. Also note the many homes close to the sea at Hoylake. Isn't that possibly a sign that the soil there is much less "linksy" than what you might find at Ballybunion, Dornoch, Royal St. Georges, etc.?     

DT 

1.  I know that and I know the super, as he participated at BUDA 2006, and is a fine and talented person.  I suspect that the R&A didn't want the dust bowl that was the 2006 Open and told the super what to do (I and several other GCAers were there on the last practice day (Wednesday), courtesy of Philip Gawith, and when I say that the course was near death, I know what I say).  IMHO, they panicked and ended up with the least links ycourse I have seen for any of the Opens I have seen in my lifetime.

2.  Possibly true, but the R&A (and the super) should have allopwed for that

rfg

[David_Tepper]

"Possibly true, but the R&A (and the super) should have allopwed for that"

Rich -

I am not sure how the R&A (and the super) could have "allowed" for a torrential downpour less than 20 hours before the start of the final round, on top of the rain that fell Saturday morning.

And, for the record, it was likely the rawest U.S. Open in the last 40-50 years and that Sunday's play was just as undramatic as yesterday's was. 

DT

P.S. Are you going up for the Shield?

[Rich Goodale]

"Possibly true, but the R&A (and the super) should have allopwed for that"

Rich -

I am not sure how the R&A (and the super) could have "allowed" for a torrential downpour less than 20 hours before the start of the final round, on top of the rain that fell Saturday morning.

And, for the record, it was likely the rawest U.S. Open in the last 40-50 years and that Sunday's play was just as undramatic as yesterday's was. 

DT

P.S. Are you going up for the Shield?


David

The rain was hardly a downpour--just a fairly constant drizzle.  I've seen real downpours at Dornoch when the 17th green turned into a pond, but then was playable (and fast and firm) an hour or so later.  IMO there was just too much mosture and too little natural drainage in the ground at Hoylake even before the first shot was struck.

Rich

PS--I'll be up for the Shield

rfg
 

[David_Tepper]

"The rain was hardly a downpour--just a fairly constant drizzle."

Rich -

I was not referring to the rain that fell while play was underway Saturday. You are right. That was not a downpour.

I am referring to the very heavy rain that fell once play concluded on Saturday. In retrospect, the R&A's decision to play in threesomes and use tees #1 & #10 finish early on Saturday was a very wise one. It is unlikely they could have finished play on Saturday had they stuck with the traditional routine.

From Geoff Shackelford's website:

"not long after play ended, a deluge fell that would have stopped play because of standing water on the greens"

DT

[Mark Chaplin]

Three weeks ago the course was "lively" and I bounced in a 7 iron from 210 yards at Deal, after three weeks of wet weather today was green and soft. Surprisingly the weather can have an effect on the course!

[Michael Felton]

Is the practice of having people assigned to each bunker so they are exactly the same for each player a new policy.  It along with the hairy drop areas seem to be a forced attempt at equality.

Hi John,

I carried a scoreboard around the course from 1992 through about 1998. Had a blast. Every time they had a greenkeeper walking around with a rake to rake the bunkers. It's certainly not new. I don't know when it started, but it was somewhat over 20 years ago.

[John Kavanaugh]

Is the practice of having people assigned to each bunker so they are exactly the same for each player a new policy.  It along with the hairy drop areas seem to be a forced attempt at equality.

Hi John,

I carried a scoreboard around the course from 1992 through about 1998. Had a blast. Every time they had a greenkeeper walking around with a rake to rake the bunkers. It's certainly not new. I don't know when it started, but it was somewhat over 20 years ago.

Thanks, that's cool. I bet you have some great stories.

[Richard Hetzel]

Other disturbing things for me included the grandstand playing canyons that significantly compromised a links feel and the creeping hooliganism ( wi fi in the granstands; reckless photography and photographers; permitting hecklers to stalk players) the R&A permitted ; all in the name of maximizing dollars. Kinda street fair feel rather than an Open.

Just a bit Dodgey but great playing made up for it I spose.

Great points, how about the electronic scoreboards that even flashed trivia questions during play?

That is the LAST thing one would expect to see at THE OPEN Championship.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Other disturbing things for me included the grandstand playing canyons that significantly compromised a links feel and the creeping hooliganism ( wi fi in the granstands; reckless photography and photographers; permitting hecklers to stalk players) the R&A permitted ; all in the name of maximizing dollars. Kinda street fair feel rather than an Open.

Just a bit Dodgey but great playing made up for it I spose.

The Wi-Fi in the grandstands was interesting.

I had my tablet tuned into the live coverage all afternoon as I sat in the stand by the 18th. At one point a huge cheer went up from somewhere out on the course, followed about a second later by movement on the big manually operated scoreboard in front of me. Garcia was suddenly 2 shots to the better.

A full two minutes later I watched the 'live' coverage of Sergio's eagle putt.

Technology eh?

[Frank Pont]

Another data point, I was at Silloth two weeks ago, also west coast links, and it was brownish and bone dry. They said they had had very little rain in the last months......

[Tony_Muldoon]

Other disturbing things for me included the grandstand playing canyons that significantly compromised a links feel and the creeping hooliganism ( wi fi in the granstands; reckless photography and photographers; permitting hecklers to stalk players) the R&A permitted ; all in the name of maximizing dollars. Kinda street fair feel rather than an Open.

Just a bit Dodgey but great playing made up for it I spose.

The Wi-Fi in the grandstands was interesting.

I had my tablet tuned into the live coverage all afternoon as I sat in the stand by the 18th. At one point a huge cheer went up from somewhere out on the course, followed about a second later by movement on the big manually operated scoreboard in front of me. Garcia was suddenly 2 shots to the better.

A full two minutes later I watched the 'live' coverage of Sergio's eagle putt.

Technology eh?

I saw them at the Ryder Cup and with only a couple of matches out it was possible to delay news so that ‘ripples’ of reaction in the grandstands did not disturb play.  Must be a nightmare at the Open.

I have to say this development makes me LESS likely to want to attend live sports events in future.  Apparently people were pushing their screens in front of Rory when his lead was down to 2! At the Ryder Cup about 1/3 of the ‘audience’ had earplugs in listening to a commentary, where's the spontaneity in that?   I just feel sooo old with all this stuff. 

Can’t be long before they have a PA and an announcer urging the crowd to “Let’s make some noise people” between shots.  (The low point of the 2012 Olympics that no one seems to mention).

[Sean_A]

This Open was by far the rowdiest I have seen on tv.  Maybe its time to pull alcohol sales?  Yob culture penetrates all aspects of life.

Like Sheehy, I highly suspect links are watered too much.  Links golfers generally don't like the full on vagaries of the weather.  They instead prefer a bit of green staff tempering.  Even venerable Rye crumbled not long ago and installed watering. 

Ciao    

[jeffwarne]

Pennard was bone dry as well-dust in high traffic areas. greens-which were irrigated- had many dry/brown areas-putted and played beautifully.
fairways defintely yellowish tan -brown with a few greenish areas in lower lying spots.

Hoylake's greens were quite receptive on Thursday before the rain.
We're in a different era, and evidently the changes Americans and tournament golf (irrigation/defined rough/narrow fairways) have brought to the game have spread across the pond.
No doubt there's been rain at Hoylake, and as Mark points out weather changes links courses too, but I can't help but think irrigation has played a huge role in it all as a course is less likely to soak up excess moisture/rain if it never is allowed to get to bone dry/dormant.
Certainly no expert, just an observation.

Re:the crowds at Hoylake
It certainly was a contrast to Augusta.
being my first Open, I was predisposed to like it all.
Was very surprised phones were allowed in.
Which is why every tee there was a caddie shouting "no pictures please"
of course. like everyone there, I did snap a few photos in silent mode
I noticed a ton of movement and noise from surrounding roads, officials and employees in gas carts, as well as nearby unaware fans.
Enjoyed the atmosphere-the park and ride was very seamless

[Mike Hendren]

Fellow Americans, repeat after me:  It's not our fault.

Money, not nationality is the root of all evil.

Boges

[Brent Hutto]

Muggsy has it right.

It's a sloppy bit of attribution to point to some course in the UK that one decides is too green or not dry enough and say "Oooh, look at that American style course".

Last night we watching the classic movie "The Americanization of Emily". This whole conversation reminds me of a few lines Emily said to Charlie during the final scene...

And here you are being brave and self-sacrificing, positively clanking with moral fervor, perpetuating the very things you detest merely to do "the right thing". Honestly, Charlie, your conversion to morality is really quite funny. All this time I've been terrified of becoming Americanized, and you, you silly ass, have turned into a bloody Englishman.

[John Kavanaugh]

Americans are not the only rubes who travel and pay exorbitant fees to play "accessible" Rota courses.  I have a gut feeling that the greening we are seeing is a response to the influx of Asian and other developing country golfers.  They are newer to the game and somewhat traditionally more interested in the beauty of structured artificial naturalness.  They, not America, are the new "rainmakers" filling the coffers of so-called links golf.

[Mark Chaplin]

You saw a brown Open at Muirfield last year, you saw a green Open this year, only God will decide what you get next year.

[cary lichtenstein]

I loved every min of the telecast

[Sean_A]

You saw a brown Open at Muirfield last year, you saw a green Open this year, only God will decide what you get next year.

...or the weather.  Setting weather aside, Chappers, do you think there are many links which seem to get too much man watering?  At Burnham we have two courses.  The one closest to the marsh has drier, firmer more linksy greens than the other course.  I have to believe that is down to a difference in watering schedules rather than a freaky weather pattern hitting one course much more than the other. 

Ciao

[Steve Okula]

You saw a brown Open at Muirfield last year, you saw a green Open this year, only God will decide what you get next year.

...or the weather.  Setting weather aside, Chappers, do you think there are many links which seem to get too much man watering?  At Burnham we have two courses.  The one closest to the marsh has drier, firmer more linksy greens than the other course.  I have to believe that is down to a difference in watering schedules rather than a freaky weather pattern hitting one course much more than the other. 

Ciao

The difference you describe could be down to soil types or construction methods as well.