[Ryan Coles]

I think the USPGA is one of the better tour stops. Not quite a major, but enjoyable viewing all the same.

[Matthew Petersen]

I have said it before and I will say it again.

ANY course with sufficiently long yardage can host a major and produce a fine, entertaining event.

Only people in this tree house care that majors be hosted in architecturally significant places.

Absolutely agree.

I don't watch the pros play Valhalla and get any overwhelming desire to play there (not that I would turn down the chance). But I really enjoy watching the tournament there.

I don't think this has any bearing on creating a dramatic tournament or bunched leaderboard, but Valhalla does have a really nice mix of difficult holes, danger, and birdie holes. Sometimes one hole can be all three at once. I like the identity of the US Open as a test, but I think the PGA is best when it's more like this than trying to be a US open Lite. Tougher than your typical tour stop set up, but with plenty of opportunity for the best field to show just how good they are.

[Bill_McBride]

Hopefully the greens won't be soggy dartboards like they were Saturday!   

[Jason Thurman]

If good architecture doesn't make for more interesting competition, then what exactly does it do?

The shaping and aesthetics at Valhalla are a borderline tragedy, especially when you go across the street to Floyds Fork Park and see just how beautiful its natural terrain is and think about what could have been. Still, the playing strategies are excellent and the holes really work, particularly from a risk/reward standpoint. It's playing exactly as expected and exactly as it has in previous events that it has hosted.

[Phil Benedict]

I think the USPGA is one of the better tour stops. Not quite a major, but enjoyable viewing all the same.

I don't think Jack Nicklaus or any of the players competing today would agree that it not quite a major.

[Andy Troeger]

There's only so much you can do when a course gets as much rain as they have had at Valhalla the last few days. The latest rain delay means it is going to be just as soft today as it has been the last few days.

I've played Valhalla and Pinehurst under regular conditions, and they are just very different places. Pinehurst is really all about the greens, because the scrub just isn't that difficult unless you get unlucky. Getting the ball in the hole at the end is where most of the challenge lies.

Valhalla is more of a tee-to-green golf course. There is sufficient width to make it fairly playable, but most of the greens are divided into tiers and are relatively flat once you get on the right level with the pin. That is why the pros make so many putts out there. Without the rain, I expect Valhalla would provide more challenge, but I don't think the PGA makes much effort to set it up tough.

I think Valhalla is pretty strategic overall. The 7th is a fun hole, and that second shot from the "short" fairway is a lot harder than the pros make it look. The course is challenging without being too overbearing from shorter distances--it isn't as tough as some of the other Nicklaus courses I've played.

[Paul Gray]

If good architecture doesn't make for more interesting competition, then what exactly does it do?......

Really?

It makes for millions of more enjoyable rounds of golf on a daily basis.

Wonderful spectacle of golf today at Valhalla. Hour upon hour of rain delays due to the garden lawn presentation. I remember actually playing the game in the rain once upon a time.

[Adam Clayman]

 Jason, You are confusing the game, with the sport.

The architecture matters for the sport. Especially, over the life of the golfer after much repeated play.

The game can be played, and can be either exciting, or boring, anywhere.  

The Women's Am at Glen Cove is much better sport, than what's happening in Louisville.

[Mike Hendren]

I have said it before and I will say it again.

ANY course with sufficiently long yardage can host a major and produce a fine, entertaining event.

Only people in this tree house care that majors be hosted in architecturally significant places.

Totally disagree.  When the leader hits driver/9-iron on a 500 yards hole there is no such thing as "sufficiently long yardage."  
Windage, holes that bend (especially around trees ) long grass, exremely firm greens and both bold and subtle movement in the putting surface are the only way to test these players - they are simply to good to be reined in by distance.  

While certainly not my cup of tea, I'm a little surprised at the beating Valhalla's taking on this site.  It's far from great but it addresses the professional game through narrow fairways with irregular lines and the effective use of water and doesn't waste trying to chalenge them with ineffective bunkering.  Having been on site for the Ryder Cup I find the "I wouldn't bother playing there" sentiment to be disengenuous hubris.  It appears imminently challenging for this crowd and perhaps even fun from the appropriate tees.  

Also, whether you like it or not you have to give someone props for the mere fact that we're watching golf this afternoon given the monsoon they've experienced.

Relax folks and enjoy it.  It's a tremendous professional venue.

Bogey

[Mike Hendren]

 

The Women's Am at Glen Cove is much better sport, than what's happening in Louisville.

What percentage of the treehouse is watching the women's am?  Please keep us posted if something interesting happens there.

Championship golf is about the golf. 

Bogey

[Paul Gray]

If good architecture doesn't make for more interesting competition, then what exactly does it do?......

Really?

It makes for millions of more enjoyable rounds of golf on a daily basis.

Wonderful spectacle of golf today at Valhalla. Hour upon hour of rain delays due to the garden lawn presentation. I remember actually playing the game in the rain once upon a time.

Paul, with respect, there was one image shown on the TV during the deluge of rain where the coin used to mark a ball on the green was completely submerged in water. Now I can be a guilty as any with respect to the "good ol' days", but on certain parts of the course today, the middle of the fairways resembled creeks.

Sorry, should have perhaps been clearer.

Any soil can only hold so much water. If you start with lush and green there's a certain inevitability that play will be delayed when the heavens open.

Admittedly I'm hardly comparing like with like but I can categorically tell you that despite the back end of Hurricane Bertha hitting the UK today my home course began the day almost white and ended the day a lighter shade of brown.  

[Dean Stokes]

It actually looks kinda crappy to me, to be dead flat honest. 

Having played the course 50+ times, I think I'm semi-qualified to say that it is anything but flat.

Which brings me to another point: I used to play the game decently. Not great, but decent. My brief CV is that I've won a few Club Championships, played on my college team and at my best, I think I was a +2 handicap.

All that said, it's inconceivable to me how good/talented these pros are in all facets of the game. Now, to be fair, I now stink and have played a total of 5 times in the last two years, but here is a snapshot comparison between "Us" and "Them".

1. The greens are not flat and/or slow. The last round I played there, I took 13 putts.....on 4 holes. At the time, was a 4 handicap.
.
2. #6 might be the worst hole in the Commonwealth of KY. A very long dogleg that gives ZERO options off the tee and very few on the approach shot. Used to be semi-interesting but they lengthened it by 70 yards and now EVERYONE, be it playing from the Championship or Forward tees, has an approach of between 210 and 240...and that's assuming they have hit a good drive. And it's a par 4. So playing from the tips, I hit driver  to the end of the fairway and then a full 5 wood, which got me to the greenside bunker. These guys are hitting Fairway metal or long iron and then a 5 or 6 iron.

3. #16 is brutal. Beyond brutal. I drilled a Driver, 3 wood and had about a 20 yard chip to the hole. The big hitters are hitting Driver and as low as a wedge. It never dawned on me that one would hit a cut off the tee as the bend in the fairway, to the right, is so far off the tee. These guys hit high fades to work with the contour of the fairway. Just inconceivable.

4. #17 is uphill and close to 500 yards...and a par 4. To give you an idea, after hooking my drive somewhere close to US 60, I reloaded and nutted my drive about 260...uphill. And I still have a full 3 wood to even get a sniff of the green. Rory hit Driver Sand Wedge.

This is not a vanity post about my game, because my game is nothing to be proud of these days. Rather its purpose is to show a first hand comparison of how the Pros play a different game from us and why I no longer get riled up about them shooting -20 on the classics. If they want to start playing the US Open at Shadow Oaks River Run Country, Curling, Tennis and Motocross Country Club, which plays as a 7900 yard, Par 70.....have at it.

I totally agree. My game sounds similar to yours! I had the chance to play Valhalla approx 2 months ago and I have been telling my friends all week that it is just not as easy as these guys are making it look! We played every hole from the up tees, anywhere between 40-60 yards in front of where these guys are playing.
#2 I hit my best drive which isn't close to cutting the corner and I had 5 wood in!
#3 I hit 7 iron from the front of the tee up....I looked back and could only imagine they would be hitting  4/5 irons-Phil just hit 8!
#6 needs starting again! The announcers must not be allowed to talk about how bad a hole it is!
I could go on.....16 and 17 are huge holes that they play like pitch and putts!

There is no comparison to the games these guys play and that of 'decent' amateurs. None. We may as well save our energy in discussing the topic. It is also incredible how the tv does flatten the course....#9 is a good 30 yards uphill and #13 the same downhill.

[Mike Hendren]

The 6th might be a bad hole but it supports the contention that water and doglegs are the best way to defend par against the professionals.  It is nice to see them hitting long and mid-irons into two shot holes, is is not?

Also, I don't see where it was a great hole pre-extension.

Bogey

[Adam Clayman]

Bogey, All square after 33 holes isn't exciting enough for you? The first Canadian since '78 to win the us Am, had her chance. Even had the American 3 down earlier in the day. Great drama, even if the greens were soft and receptive.

Besides, the winners caddie will be a freshmen at U of Nebraska in the fall.


**Anyone else noticing CBS appears to have a different directorial slant? We are actually seeing shots from all over the course.And I swear I just saw a quick cut over to another shot. I haven't seen that quick a cut for 25 years.

[Mike Hendren]

Adam, you are in good company.  Coach Wooden stated that the women's college game was the more pure form of hoops.

On another issue, thank goodness Rory had a two stroke leading headed into 18.  The last ten minutes have been a cluster.

Bogey

[RJ_Daley]

During his post round press comments, Phil was highly complimentary in his praise of Valhalla as a "great major venue".

[Jason Thurman]

Paul, how long do you think you would last as a superintendent of a bentgrass course in the US Upper South? I'd set the over/under at 4 hours. I live just over an hour away and spent Wednesday through Saturday in Louisville and Lexington, and I can't think of many courses that could even have been playable after that much rain. It's a testament to the course that it delivered a great tournament even with the bentgrass, clay soil, and 12 inches of precipitation. Let's not forget that just a month ago Hoylake soaked up a half inch of rain and immediately turned into the dullest course in tournament golf.

Haters will hate, but Valhalla hit its 6th consecutive home run.

[Nigel Islam]

Love or hate him, but Thurman called it! Tip the cap.

[Jud_T]

Valhalla is the ideal venue for this event.  A tough risk-reward setup for the big sticks which allows for some eagles and doubles in the otherwise dull medal play format; and a course that I have no second thought about having no desire whatsoever to play.  They should host every year.

[Carl Rogers]

Valhalla is the ideal venue for this event.  A tough risk-reward setup for the big sticks which allows for some eagles and doubles in the otherwise dull medal play format; and a course that I have no second thought about having no desire whatsoever to play.  They should host every year.

I agree, I think it is great to see the top 100 in the world try to knock the flag down on each and every approach shot.

[George Pazin]

If good architecture doesn't make for more interesting competition, then what exactly does it do?

It separates.

Less great collects. That produces more "excitement" if one's definition of excitement is more guys in the mix.

"I agree, I think it is great to see the top 100 in the world try to knock the flag down on each and every approach shot."

I can't think of anything more boring, at least when it comes to tournament golf...

[Dan Kelly]

If good architecture doesn't make for more interesting competition, then what exactly does it do?

It separates.

Less great collects. That produces more "excitement" if one's definition of excitement is more guys in the mix.

"I agree, I think it is great to see the top 100 in the world try to knock the flag down on each and every approach shot."

I can't think of anything more boring, at least when it comes to tournament golf...

May I quote myself from that other thread? I think I will:

Golf is better when the ball bounces and rolls.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Yes, its better when it bounces and rolls, but you can't control the weather.  seeing the wet fw this weekend, all I could think was there would be a new move for USGA fairways, complete with sub air to keep them as dry as greens.  Given the recent historical preference for technical solutions, and if we presume firm and fast is the best, with similar fw and green conditions for consistency, its the only conclusion I could come up with for the top 100 courses to pursue in their pursuit of consistent perfection.

We have already seen sand based approaches and chipping areas.  Why not go the whole fw so tee shots roll out as the architect presumed?

And once the top 100 do it, the next 2-300 can't be far behind.

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